Occult Damages!

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    Sciarry
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    Occult Damages!

    Post by Sciarry on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:01 pm

    Are occult damages usefull in PVP ? Or they are good only vs Ghosts ?
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:10 pm

    ... neither.
    Occult weapons do extra damage to black knights, silver knights, Gwyn and Gwyndolin. (and maybe more that i don't know about)

    The occult modifier is useless in PvP, since players are obviously not one of the above creatures. However that doesn't mean occult weapons in general are useless in PvP.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Djem on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:42 pm

    Yeah, the usefulness of occult weapons in PvP comes from the very good scaling they have with Faith.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Kuragari on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:44 pm

    for pvp what i got out of the wiki is that if your invading someone the occult weapon is suppose to do more damage damage to living things and the divine weapons are suppose to be more damage for undead and the invading phantom


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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sciarry on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:38 am

    Mmm... Thanks to everyone, this helped me a lot! happy
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:59 am

    The game says that Occult weapons damage gonds and their servants. If this logic works, shouldn't Occult weapons do extra damage to players with Covenants such is Darkmoon Blade, Way of White, Princess Guard etc., as they are clearly servants of a diety?

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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:21 am

    ^ Would make sense lorewise, but considering that some occult/devine weapons have like a 160 modifier, that would give faith builds an unfair advantage in PvP. So i don't think that's the case.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:27 am

    lalliman wrote:^ Would make sense lorewise, but considering that some occult/devine weapons have like a 160 modifier, that would give faith builds an unfair advantage in PvP. So i don't think that's the case.
    Well...unfair advantage can be questionable.
    Darkmoons invade lower SLs, so they usually have advantage on their side, this could tip the odds in more even ranges.

    As a Darkmoon I often invaded people that I kill with two hits of my Chaos Blade and I was SL 127, so either it was a huge coincidence for me to run into many glass cannons builds, or I just invaded low SL guys. I didn't ask, as many people are pissed off at me for killing them.

    And the other way around. Sunbros, Way of White and Cleavage Guards are all servants of gods, so Occult would do more damage to them as well, making occult weapons good for fighting gankers.

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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:43 am

    Sentiel wrote:Well...unfair advantage can be questionable.
    Darkmoons invade lower SLs, so they usually have advantage on their side, this could tip the odds in more even ranges.

    As a Darkmoon I often invaded people that I kill with two hits of my Chaos Blade and I was SL 127, so either it was a huge coincidence for me to run into many glass cannons builds, or I just invaded low SL guys. I didn't ask, as many people are pissed off at me for killing them.

    And the other way around. Sunbros, Way of White and Cleavage Guards are all servants of gods, so Occult would do more damage to them as well, making occult weapons good for fighting gankers.

    Unfair is a subjective term of course. There are many things in the game that could be considered unfair. But about the Darkmoons, as opposed to DW invasions, DM invasions are completely avoidable. Just saying, anyone who gets invaded by them has done something to invite it.

    There are several tactics to make PvP unfair in your advantage, for example greatshield + spear. But if occult weapons had that effect they would give faith builds an unfair advantage without actually making them do anything for it. It just seems a tad unfair to me for faith builds to do 60% extra damage to PvP enemies with the weapons that they would normally use anyways.
    Am i making sense to you?

    Edit: somehow i missed your last line completely silly cleavage guards xD the thing is if occult had that effect, divine would prolly have increased damage against darkwraiths. So that neutralizes the anti-gank-ness again.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:20 am

    lalliman wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:Well...unfair advantage can be questionable.
    Darkmoons invade lower SLs, so they usually have advantage on their side, this could tip the odds in more even ranges.

    As a Darkmoon I often invaded people that I kill with two hits of my Chaos Blade and I was SL 127, so either it was a huge coincidence for me to run into many glass cannons builds, or I just invaded low SL guys. I didn't ask, as many people are pissed off at me for killing them.

    And the other way around. Sunbros, Way of White and Cleavage Guards are all servants of gods, so Occult would do more damage to them as well, making occult weapons good for fighting gankers.

    Unfair is a subjective term of course. There are many things in the game that could be considered unfair. But about the Darkmoons, as opposed to DW invasions, DM invasions are completely avoidable. Just saying, anyone who gets invaded by them has done something to invite it.

    There are several tactics to make PvP unfair in your advantage, for example greatshield + spear. But if occult weapons had that effect they would give faith builds an unfair advantage without actually making them do anything for it. It just seems a tad unfair to me for faith builds to do 60% extra damage to PvP enemies with the weapons that they would normally use anyways.
    Am i making sense to you?

    Edit: somehow i missed your last line completely silly cleavage guards xD the thing is if occult had that effect, divine would prolly have increased damage against darkwraiths. So that neutralizes the anti-gank-ness again.
    I'm not sure with the Divine, it should work against undead, so it should work only on hollows, no?

    Anyway, 60% damage increase? I thought that Occult/Divine Aux number was transfered to actual damage, doing extra Magic damage based on the number.

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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 am

    Sentiel wrote:I'm not sure with the Divine, it should work against undead, so it should work only on hollows, no?

    Anyway, 60% damage increase? I thought that Occult/Divine Aux number was transfered to actual damage, doing extra Magic damage based on the number.
    I'm actually pretty sure divine doesn't do extra damage against hollows. From what i know, it only works against skeletons and harpies (for some freaking reason). Divine is used against occult forces, the same way occult is used against devine forces, that's why it can permakill skeletons. So if occult does extra damage to DMs, WOWs, PGs and sunbros wouldn't it be logical for occult to do extra damage to DWs?

    And no no, the modifier is in fact a percentage. If the modifier is 110, the weapon does 10% extra damage to the appropriate creatures.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sentiel on Wed Dec 12, 2012 8:50 am

    lalliman wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:I'm not sure with the Divine, it should work against undead, so it should work only on hollows, no?

    Anyway, 60% damage increase? I thought that Occult/Divine Aux number was transfered to actual damage, doing extra Magic damage based on the number.
    I'm actually pretty sure divine doesn't do extra damage against hollows. From what i know, it only works against skeletons and harpies (for some freaking reason). Divine is used against occult forces, the same way occult is used against devine forces, that's why it can permakill skeletons. So if occult does extra damage to DMs, WOWs, PGs and sunbros wouldn't it be logical for occult to do extra damage to DWs?

    And no no, the modifier is in fact a percentage. If the modifier is 110, the weapon does 10% extra damage to the appropriate creatures.
    Well, if it's an % modifier, then yeah, it would be unfair, OP even.
    I don't think Occult should do extra damage to DWs as they foloow no diety. Divine as well, as they're not undead per se as skeletons etc, but perhaps Divine should do extra to Gravelords. Seeing as they are in necromancer Covenant and all, but this is just lore based specualtion.

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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:56 am

    Sentiel wrote:Well, if it's an % modifier, then yeah, it would be unfair, OP even.
    I don't think Occult should do extra damage to DWs as they foloow no diety. Divine as well, as they're not undead per se as skeletons etc, but perhaps Divine should do extra to Gravelords. Seeing as they are in necromancer Covenant and all, but this is just lore based specualtion.
    That was a typo, i meant to say DWs should take bonus damage from divine, not occult. Keep in mind that divine also does extra damage against harpies, while those aren't undead. (for as far as i know) Divine doing bonus damage to gravelord servands would make sense, lorewise. But i guess we agree that it would be an imbalanced gameplay mechanic.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Kuragari on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:08 am

    thought i'd post in here rather then make a new thread for it but, whats up with the raw upgrade? i never use it, it just doesn't seem worthwhile...is there something to it that i'm missing?


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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by raecor14 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:54 am

    nope, its just that bad.


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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:29 am

    Kuragari wrote:thought i'd post in here rather then make a new thread for it but, whats up with the raw upgrade? i never use it, it just doesn't seem worthwhile...is there something to it that i'm missing?

    Think of it like astoras straight sword or the drake sword, good in the beginning... useless later.

    Use it while you increase your main attack stat, or if you want to increase your main magic stat first.


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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by lalliman on Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:10 am

    Raw is probably pretty good if you do a chalenge run where you purposely stay below like soulvl 20. Other than that it's pretty much useless.
    You could use a raw weapon until your STR/DEX becomes higher but it seems like too much efford to me.
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Trym on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:52 am

    Ok, just wondering since I'm currently working on a high faith build, and I'm intending to stop at SL110. Lets say I have 40 faith and 32 strength, then it would be more beneficial to use a divine/Occult weapon instead of the normal+15 upgrade path?

    The upgrade system in this game is kinda confusing to me since some of the paths only seem to be good at low SL
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    Re: Occult Damages!

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:19 pm

    Trym wrote:Ok, just wondering since I'm currently working on a high faith build, and I'm intending to stop at SL110. Lets say I have 40 faith and 32 strength, then it would be more beneficial to use a divine/Occult weapon instead of the normal+15 upgrade path?

    The upgrade system in this game is kinda confusing to me since some of the paths only seem to be good at low SL
    If you plan on using buffs, go +15, as you can't buff Divine/Occult.
    If you don't want to use buffs, go Divine (it kills skeletons in Catacombs).


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