New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

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    MasterofShadows
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    New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:19 pm

    I'd like to hear what you guys think about the current covenant system, as well as what you'd like to see in the new one, assuming it returns.

    Here's one idea for starters. Betraying a covenant should have much more dire consequences, such as something that the player must actually have to overcome. For example, just joining the Forest Hunter covenant, and betraying it just to get the DWGR should have had much more serious consequences, instead of the big cat simply saying "I hate you now." It would have been pretty cool to be hunted down (in a different zone mind you) by a much more powerful and higher ranking member of the covenant (NPC or player), and it is not until you actually kill one of them that the hunting stops. Perhaps you could also pick up a pretty cool item after you defeat the assassin. This would cause the player to think more carefully before crossing the group, and it would also secondarily provide players with another unique PVP opportunity. Some players might even decide to make a profession out of covenant breaking just for the sake of having these encounters.

    Thoughts?


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:33 pm

    In addition, expand the covenant system entirely so that it has branching item reward paths for different playstyles. Some players have tank like characters, so they should be able to choose items that fit that playstyle. Let's say that the covenant is an evil magic user covenant. Then that tank character should have the choice of enchanted armor to benefit his magic resistance or it should additional magic properties. That way, he can still retain the whole tank playstyle while still retaining the benefits of that particular covenant.

    Another example: what if the darkwraith covenant also had equipment that fit a mage or thief playstyle yet retained the same aesthetics?


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Dec 11, 2012 5:46 pm

    I really like the idea that there would be actual consequences for betraying/abandoning a covenant. It would hella improve the replay value and roleplayability.

    If you haven't seen ENB's speculation vid, I would recommend it. He's taken a lot of people's ideas and presented them there.

    Here's mine. The vid should start at the appropriate section (36:47).
    http://youtu.be/_VBzaxJba8E?t=36m47s

    1. A covenant that could invade and get a reward by either killing the player or the boss.
    2. A covenant that would invade mid-boss-fight. If the boss is losing, he/she would be on the boss side. If the boss is winning, he/she would be on the player's side.
    3. Improve the Gravelord covenant. Allow a Gravelord to invade along with a handful of black phantom enemies. Cut Gravelord's health in half to balance.


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by tinypantha on Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:43 pm

    allow more invasion covenant types or atleast as said b4 in another topic make a covennt that when a player has ring A on and another has ring B on allow A to summon B if they need help thru Ring summons



    and on your signture O.P "and i can hear durzo' voice now ' remember that one time you humped a bridge?'"


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by ublug on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:40 pm

    I hope they go for covenant masks instead of covenant rings (as can be interpreted from the trailer), at least for some covenants (like darkmoons).
    Maybe also be a punishment for failing to accomplish your covenant task?
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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:43 pm

    ublug wrote:I hope they go for covenant masks instead of covenant rings

    Yes.

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:48 pm

    The covenants should matter more. and betraying should have a lot worse consequences. You shouldn't be able to jump between covenants like you can in DkS.
    High ranking members should also have access to special areas/NPC/armors.

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by User on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:48 pm

    Covenants... Betray...

    Pardoner is coming back, it seems. Hopeful.

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:51 pm

    ^I always found that weird, you can just pay some souls and then everyone suddenly forgets everything you've done.

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by User on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:08 pm

    Tied to a Goddess of Sin, perhaps the control of her will is stronger than expected.

    Woosh!

    Seriously, those things were not cheap. The anti-sin generator.

    "whipe out my sins!" "Pay your pardon." "Oka- ow..."
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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Buggy Virus on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:18 pm

    Considering we are not likely to see any of the old covenants, I'll talk generally.

    Covenants need to exist expecting players to really invest and focus on PvP. For this reason, they should have extended rewards and content. Meaning having a ton of ranks, weapons and items to unlock. Perhaps unlocking further and more effective ways to invade.

    Also, covenants need to better police each other. It seems that the sin system was supposed to do this in Dark Souls, that high sin darkwraiths would start being in turn invaded by high level darkmoons. This didn't happen, because invading was much more popular due to the fact that you had the whole pool of players, instead of just those who had sin.

    This means that the general revenge covenant needs better tools to invade and punish, like a book of the guilty, but one that shows who is online with high sin and where they can be invaded. Like a book that actually tells Darkmoons where and how to hunt. This would make it realistic for the a punishment covenant to exist and be effective, actually making players aware of their high sin and knowing that it will make them more likely to be invaded online, give them a feeling of being hunted.

    In addition, add new things, like the ability to invade really high sin players even when they are hollow, or in areas they have killed their boss.


    Going back to the progression system, give items and magic that really make players identify with their covenant. Nothing completely ridiculous like darkmoon blade, but balanced items that you will still be able to look forward to after 200+ invasions.

    In addition then, online interactions need to be a bit more streamlined and interesting. Perhaps co-op covenants allowing players to have a book in which players who are in a rut can list themselves and allow others in the covenant to summon themselve directly to their location. Real benefits to being in covenants and real reasons.


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Djem on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:19 pm

    MasterofShadows wrote:For example, just joining the Forest Hunter covenant, and betraying it just to get the DWGR should have had much more serious consequences, instead of the big cat simply saying "I hate you now."

    I laughed more than I should.
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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Seignar on Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:44 pm

    My ideas on covenants. Once you betray a covenant, a wandering enemie spawns. A strong one...
    Yeah, like you know. A BP greatsword Black Knight randomly spawns and could be anywhere at any time.

    Just so you keep that in mind the next time you want to betray...

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:29 pm

    Seignar wrote:My ideas on covenants. Once you betray a covenant, a wandering enemie spawns. A strong one...
    Yeah, like you know. A BP greatsword Black Knight randomly spawns and could be anywhere at any time.

    Just so you keep that in mind the next time you want to betray...

    Yeah, this is the point I was making. But if an actual player who is a member of the covenant decides to take up the hunt, they are capable of doing so. However, if a player never does, a powerful NPC will. And while I like the Black Knight idea, I think it would be better if the NPC that hunts you is more covenant specific. Like say, betraying the Dark Wraiths means that a powerful Dark Wraith will hunt you.


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Seignar on Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:38 pm

    Way of the White: Leeroy
    Sunlight Covenant: We jolly! No penalties! (No seriously, what works?)
    Princess Guard: BP Silver Knight with Lance, sword, shield and Greatbow
    Forest Hunters: BP Mushroom Parent
    Chaos Servants: BP Taurus Demon
    Darkmoons: BP Greatsword Black Knight
    Darkwraiths: BP Darkwraith
    Gravelords: BP Giant Skeleton
    Dragons: BP drake

    Assuming we have the same covenants (Which we won't).

    But I think we need less covenant in this game. They had too many that their overall usefulness lowered Princess Guard , 3 Co-op covenants are too much).

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Tomhet on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:11 pm

    A covenant that invades during a boss fight? That is a really terrible idea.
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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by MasterofShadows on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:16 pm

    Tomhet wrote:A covenant that invades during a boss fight? That is a really terrible idea.

    Yeah, i dont like that either. That would be trolling at its finest. A better idea would be take the Old Monk idea from Demon's Souls, and let certain covenants play as certain bosses. Of course, I suggest that this type of boss be an optional boss, and not a mandatory one.


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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Seignar on Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:17 pm

    You just ninja'd my post!

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    Re: New ideas for the covenant system, as well as improvements of the original concept.

    Post by Slarg232 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm

    Every covenant needs to be online capable; what's the point of the Princess Guard and Chaos Covenant when they don't allow you to do anything? Yeah sure they give you special abilities, but nothing too serious.


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