the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

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    retro
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    the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by retro on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:03 pm

    Before an area boss is defeated, you can obtain up to 10 humanity from killing regular enemies. The white aura that your character absorbs whenever you obtain souls will appear black instead, and you'll see the humanity automatically increase your soft-humanity value by 1.

    This is commonly understood, but I was curious why I never heard specifics on how many enemies needed to be killed. It turns out that it's not a simple question to answer, because "tougher" enemies are worth a different amount and will reward the humanity faster.

    This may be an oversimplification (I don't know that it really works with whole numbers nicely), but it's almost exactly like this:

    1st humanity - 34 points
    2nd humanity - 35 points
    3rd humanity - 37 points
    4th humanity - 40 points
    5th humanity - 47 points
    (6 through 10 is untested, but the 10th is something near 102 points)

    And different enemies are worth different amounts. Here's what I know so far...

    Undead Burg:

    Lesser Hollows* = 1 point per kill
    Tougher Hollows** = 2 points per kill

    *(includes shortsword + cracked round shield hollows, unshielded hollows)
    **(includes spear hollows, swords are untested)

    The Depths:

    Torch Hollows = 2 points
    Butchers = unknown (a lot)
    Rats = 0
    Slimes = 0
    Basilisks = 0
    Channeler = 0

    - - - - -

    Some more information:

    -There are 10 potential humanity to be received from each area. It's a one time thing, once you get all ten, double suiciding, reloading etc, will not allow you to get the humanity again.

    -Quitting/ reloading does not reset the progress of your invisible humanity-point counter. This means that if there are hacker types who mess with saves files reading this, this should all be accounted for somewhere in the save data. There might be a way to tinker with it and learn more about how it works... (although we won't get into a public discussion of that here)

    I'll be doing more testing on this later. It was getting to the point where I could predict the exact moment I'd receive a humanity, so it seems to generally work so far.
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by ublug on Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:29 pm

    I did some of these tests long ago, but never got around to finish it. My conclusion was that you had to kill one more enemy for each humanity, but I did that test in the depths, so it should be the same as your numbers (torch zombie=2). I remember that it was a bit problematic to only kill one enemy type, especially in the burg, that's why I focused on depths. Others have contributed more info since then. The list of enemies who increases the counter should be almost complete, but none of the dlc areas are listed.
    http://darksoulswiki.wikispaces.com/Humanity+Farming#Soft%20Humanity
    They also increased the drop rate in one of the first patches, but some areas (blighttown) still takes loads of kills.
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by retro on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:20 pm

    Oh excellent, thank you. I'll do more research to flesh out that list!

    After a set number of an enemy type is killed, one humanity will be absorbed. Some enemies require fewer kills than others, the numbers also varies from one area to another. It's uncertain if it's dependent on amount of enemies, yielded souls, or if each enemy has its own 'humanity worth'.
    I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the last and first one (a certain amount of enemies, but some have different 'humanity worth', what I'm calling points). It's not just +1 for each additional humanity, it goes from 34 "points", to 35, to 37... then eventually something near 100 for the 10th.

    I've ruled out yielded souls (more on that in a sec)...

    ublug wrote:I remember that it was a bit problematic to only kill one enemy type, especially in the burg
    Ah yeah that was a little hectic. I ran straight past all the enemies to the bonfire. I then killed the hollow on the steps over and over, which took 34 kills for the first humanity.

    I then did a routine that contained more than one enemy type, killing all 11 enemies between the bonfire and the undead merchant (and down by the nearby ladder). It took only 28 kills... and eventually narrowed it down to just the spear-hollows being worth more in that group. I killed only spear hollows by running past all the enemies, quiting/ reloading by the spear guys, and killing them that way. Took 17 kills.

    I was able to rule out yielded souls, because even though the first routine required more kills, I was actually getting more souls faster that way. This is because I was overkilling the hollow with pyromancy, but when I did the second routine I was using a longsword and not getting overkills. Plus the four hollows by the ladder drop even fewer souls than the rest. So I can say there was a situation where I was getting more souls but it still took more kills.

    My point system seems to work so far, but may need to be revised if there are still enemies that require more than 34 kills, like in Blighttown. I assumed I was already working with the smallest increment/ resolution. Or I could keep it the same and give lesser enemies 0.decimal instead...


    Last edited by retro on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by Carphil on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:25 pm

    This is interesting. I always wondered why my humanity increases so fast sometimes. Thanks for the info


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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by ublug on Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:17 pm

    I'm also curious if the counter/buildup stays with you, or if it's restricted to each area. For example, after killing 33 hollows in the burg, will the first hollow in the parish drop a humanity? And also if the counter resets after you absorb a humanity, as in killing one worth 7 if you only need 2, will the 5 remaining be added towards the next absorption?
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by ublug on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:11 pm

    I recently made some Blighttown numbers from killing cragspiders. The first dropped after exactly 50 spiders, so the numbers are ideal for making percentages. The numbers were also exactly the same for skeletons (scimitar / falchion / bow) in the Catacombs. It took 50 skeletons to drop the first humanity, and the percentages for all the other stages were the same as the Blighttown numbers. I then tested the Parish worshippers, and had to kill 100 for the first and 105 (+5%) for the second humanity.

    Code:
    humanity - kills      - increase
    1st      - 50          - (b)
    2nd      - 53 (52.5)  - (b+5%)
    3rd      - 55          - (b+10%)
    4th      - 60          - (b+20%)
    5th      - 70          - (b+40%)
    6th      - 80          - (b+60%)
    7th      - 95          - (b+90%)
    8th      - 110        - (b+120%)
    9th      - 128 (127.5) - (b+155%)
    10th    - 150        - (b+200%)

    Let's say the humanity buildup for getting the first humanity is 100, then:
    - Cragspiders = 2/100 humanity points.
    - Catacomb skeletons = 2/100 points.
    - Necromancers = 30/100 points.
    - Catacombs wheel skeletons = 6/100 points?
    - Parish worshippers = 1/100 points.
    - Parish balder knights = 5/100 points?
    - Lower undead burg thiefs = 3/100 points.

    Your tests (retro) would amount to:
    Undead Burg
    Lesser Hollows = 3/100 humanity points (includes shortsword + cracked round shield hollows, unshielded hollows)
    Tougher Hollows = 6/100 humanity points (includes spear hollows, swords are untested)
    The Depths
    Torch Hollows = 6/100 humanity points.

    I also tried some rings (silver serpent ring, evil eye), but they had no effect on humanity drop frequency. After testing the Parish worshippers I tried the New Londo worshippers as well, but I gave up after 200+ kills without a drop.
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by retro on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:53 pm

    Hey, I never thanked you for the research you did. Thanks for taking this further and improving the info!

    So in the areas labeled as 'No Target', did you already confirm that all or most enemies in those areas provide no "humanity build-up points"? I just killed 110 ents in Darkroot Garden so we can assume they offer zero. I was about to kill a bunch of Stone Giants but realized I should ask if you've already checked them.

    edit: I didn't make the connection that the enemies have to be humanoid/ undead.
    Does the TotG appear to have none so far? Do the Giant Skeletons not seem to count?
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by JoeBroski09 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:28 pm

    I didn't know that you only got 10 in an area. I could have sworn that farming continuously gives you humanity indefinitely, it just takes a lot of killing. Are you guys 100% sure that you can only get 10 humanity in an area from killing?


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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by ublug on Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:35 pm

    I haven't tried the stone giants, or every other enemy, but have mostly focused on humanoids with a 'normal' size. Apart from a few enemies, the ones that drop are also affected by the undead rapport spell. For some of the enemies I thought didn't drop (for example parish worshippers) I learned that they do drop by watching let's plays and other videos. I did try ToTG but gave up after killing 100+ giant skeletons, so I assumed they don't drop and added 'no target' to the list.

    JoeBroski09 wrote:Are you guys 100% sure that you can only get 10 humanity in an area from killing?
    99.9% sure, unless they patched it.

    ublug wrote:I'm also curious if the counter/buildup stays with you, or if it's restricted to each area. For example, after killing 33 hollows in the burg, will the first hollow in the parish drop a humanity? And also if the counter resets after you absorb a humanity, as in killing one worth 7 if you only need 2, will the 5 remaining be added towards the next absorption?
    The counter is tied to each area.
    It also looks like it resets after each absorption (not 100% sure on this).
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    Re: the mechanics of obtaining soft-humanity from enemies

    Post by retro on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:14 am

    Cool. I did some more testing, confirmed the Balder Knights of the Parish to be worth 5 points. I skipped every enemy and opened the elevator to the Parish, then rested at the Firelink bonfire. I went up the elevator and killed the Balder Knight on the staircase exactly 20 times before getting the first soft humanity.

    The Heavy Knight/ Bereneke Knight in the Parish is worth 10 points. It took an additional 19 Balder Knights to reach the 2nd soft humanity, which is 10 + 95 to reach 105 points for the humanity meter.

    I'll be doing some more in a little bit.

    edit: The Undead Parish hollow soldiers are worth 3 points. It took 37 to reach 110 on the humanity meter, for the 3rd humanity obtained in the area.

    And the hollows mid-level are also just 1 point, like the ones at the sunlight altar.

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