A Guide on Forest Survival

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    Lord of Ash
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    A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:12 pm

    I am a Forest Hunter and I'm making this post as a guide on surviving in the forest, be you hunter or tresspasser. I would like for Hunters and Host to post tips, ideas, and strategies, for surviving in the forest. Id like for people to post questions on how to counter tacticts such as ganging, hide and seekers(those who invade and hide), spamming, etc. I urge all hunters to help fill this thread and even the host to post


    Help create a guide to surviving in the forest and KILLING tresspassers who enter our sacred forest.


    Last edited by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:16 pm

    My tactic is patience if I come across gankers I attack the phantom over and over while running and hiding till the host runs out of estus and can no longer heal the phantom at which point I eliminate the phantom. I also use my forest hunting gear:

    1) thief hood

    2) black cleric set

    3) ring of fog

    4) dragon slayer spear for range and to keep people from running

    5) moonlight great sword to stun and keep people from running

    I use other tactics as well


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:41 pm

    What do you do against gankers (Host not the hunter gankers) that heal


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:54 pm

    The "For the Glory of Alvina" thread has probably over a hundred pages of survival tips in the forest (and war stories.....and videos). I admit they're mostly from the Forest Hunter perspective. That's a good starting place for anyone in the Forest but a Q and A thread here isn't a bad idea. As for healing gankers....

    Depends on the circumstances. I'm not averse to STD (Skarekrow Tree Descendant) gang attacks, rolly cat help (if they're that dumb) etc. to even the odds. If there's another hunter that's helping that can work too. Divide and conquer and normal stuff for preventing heal. If it's just me I try to take out any phantoms first. Either make the host use all his flasks on someone else or overwhelm a phantom quickly enough where there's little opportunity to heal the phantom. Once it's me and the host I find that a quick two hand switch and sprint allows my jumping great scythe attack to land before estus at a decent percentage.


    And who can forget Lloyd's talismans. If they're healing by means other than estus make them waste resources if you can.

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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by AzureCrow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:02 pm

    I usually Bs or heal back, If they're ganking I bs one and take the breathing room to corner the other.

    The biggest thing for a hunter to keep in mind is there is no rush, whether it's 1v1 or 1v3 don't just rush in, EVERYONE will bs fish in the forest given the opportunity. Also If your in over your head don't be afraid to lead gankers on a wild goose chase or blk crystal out if no other hunters show up for a while.

    Also when outnumbered focus on one opponent for a while but watch the others for openings then switch focus only when you can make a big move. Can't tell you the number of times I've gotten a host who dropped his guard just because I was trading blows against his phantom.

    On that note if your fast 9 times out of ten you can kill a host's phantoms in the time between the hosts death and the disconnect, less useful but rather fun.

    Never knew the for Alvina thread had videos, time for a re-read, dear god it's huge... http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t2307-for-the-glory-of-alvina?highlight=alvina
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Xero on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:10 pm

    You can play on the PC. There are no gankers on the PC.


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:28 pm

    What do you use on the host who spam or wait at the spawning point near the cliff to knock you off


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by AzureCrow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:40 pm

    Try for a counter bs, parry if you can, otherwise either back step away or lure them towards the corner and WOG/force/kick them off the ledge.


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:12 pm

    Xero wrote:You can play on the PC. There are no gankers on the PC.

    Yeah, but there are hackers instead. And i'd rather fight s 1v3 than fight a hacker.

    Not hating on PC, but you wont get away from cheap players on any system.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Kirk-Barb on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:24 pm

    I have just recently tried hosting in the Forest at level 13. I'm amazed at the number of Forest Hunters hunting around that level. I'm invaded so often I have yet to make it far enough in to kill the second forest knight near the archer.

    As a host I find if I fight away from the stairs Hunters most often take turns. But if you're near the stairs, they assume you are summoning and all bets are off.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Avenger649 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:34 pm

    This does depend on which character I am using but here it goes:
    1. Do not two hand your weapon if you see your opponent is using a weapon.
    2. Try and parry the people, most of them only R1 spam and so a parry is extra damage.
    3. If the host is on low health either use a ranged weapon or go for a BS of any kind as most of them will just try to heal immediately , if they have divine blessings then roll bs them to death as you will rarely win conventionally.
    4. Carry a spear or a long ranged weapon for defensive play when on low health.
    5. If you have a high enough damage weapon then try and one shot the host or his phantom(s) to eliminate them.

    Beyond that just look out for WoG spam or dark bead spam.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Xero on Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:45 pm

    Spurgun wrote:
    Xero wrote:You can play on the PC. There are no gankers on the PC.

    Yeah, but there are hackers instead. And i'd rather fight s 1v3 than fight a hacker.

    Not hating on PC, but you wont get away from cheap players on any system.
    I met 3 hackers in total on the pc and ive been playing since launch. Only one was in the forest and he was just using hes hack to change what type of phantom he was. I dont really mind that its not like he had infinte hp.

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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:01 pm

    I PvPed for a week and i met ~8 hackers. All of them had infinite hp and one of them had even hacked his zwei to have a rapiers attack animation.
    Of course there wont be as many hackers as there are gankers, but there are still a lot of them on PC. You might be lucky, or i was just unlucky.

    But that's why stopped playing on the PC, and went back to PS3.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by AzureCrow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:58 pm

    I've probably put in around 50-100 hours pvp mostly in the forest and only ran into my first real hacker last night. The guy was naked with mask of the sealer a dragon fist and demon's great hammer, had well over 5000 health and used 4 casts of DMB in the minute or so the fight lasted. Despite his liberal use of D-Blessings me and another hunter took him out with little problems.

    This following sentence is a touch sickening to say but frankly I'm thankful for gankers, they reduce the need for unsporting players to hack, and all those full giants mask wearing BKGA users avoid spells because they'd run out. I've gone 3 days straight without seeing more than one caster, and he was just a turtling coward hiding behind and aforementioned Mask of child giant w/ BKGA. So no abyss spells in the forest Praise the Sun
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Xero on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:41 pm

    I actually prefer fighting dark magic users. They just spam their spells i dodge and then kill them in 2 hits. What i really hate are the tryhards. Today i fought a guy who had 1500+ health, heavy armor and was using CMW on a washing pole and on top of that he used pursuers. Of course he spamed "well what is it" after he killed me. I have no idea how to counter that level of tryhardness.


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by T-King-667 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:43 pm

    I've gotta say that the forest covenant is the my hypocritical covenant not pointing anyone out here (i never faced anybody from the forums here when i hosted at the forest) But what the forest covenant members biggest complaint? The fact that theres so much ganking, and i understand that because nobody likes gankers. But every time i host in the forest (i always go solo, rarely will i take a friend and even then we take turns killing invaders) One person invades me, i wait for him to come up to the central battle ground (where the bandit is) and most times they dont show up. Somtime later.. a second invaders comes in and all of a sudden the first invader comes struting up the hill, what does this tell me? He deliberately hid to wait for back up. You may say "well he did it because hes used to being ganked or outnumbered" sure i understand that but then why do the invaders bow to eachother and then proceed to 2v1 me? They see that its just me but they dont care they just want to do what it takes to win, sound framilliar? Sounds like a ganking quote.
    Somthing else that bugs the utter hell out of me is when one invader comes in, we bow we fight everythings fine and dandy, Until a second invader comes along. So at this point i figure that the dude im fighting will back off and ill fight the new invader and we can continue afterwards. But when i turn my attention to the new guy i immediately get my back stabed by the First dude i was fighting, then after i get up both of them are attacking me, Like wtf dude has our bow in the beginning ment any ounce of respect what-so-ever? But its just so rare to see an actual respectful invader in the forest, anyway thats it for my rant.

    Now to actually contribute to the thread heres some hints for when your hosting.

    Bring a friend: No i don't mean a gank squad, Just one other dude you take turns facing invaders and when 2 invade at the same time go for a tag match which is lots of fun aswell.

    When they hide:Alot of times invaders will come in and hide forever theres two things you can do, continue to fight invaders that come in till he eventually gets bored and warps out. or you can go through the forest and kick every tree till you find his ***. Or check the spawn locations the dude may be afk.

    Outnumberd: As stated in the rant when you host, almost always you will be 2v1'd unless if you have a partner with you but if you dont then heres a few things you can do when your outnumberd.
    Wog spam
    Run away
    Try to face them head on (surprisingly effective sometimes)
    Jump off a cliff to end your misery
    send them a msg saying "go away" (again surprisingly effective sometimes)
    And ofcourse you can always go fogring and honets ring and hide away and do a sneak attack when you feel is right.

    Thats all i got for now, ill probly add more later.

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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by lorenzo110 on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:49 pm

    This is simply my opinion on the forest. It is a free for all zone. Has always been and will always be. Period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is only fooling themselves. Since the game came out almost every forums I have gone too the players always state they are going to go and clean up the forest. Now I ask you this...has this happened? Honestly there are more people playing this game then there are who a part of any forum. From my experiance playing this game since day one and also having experiance in DS as well there has always been immoral behavour on both ends of the spectrum, invaders and defenders. From the first day to the present it still continues. Those that have high honor should not enter the forest at all because the rules and regulations you follow will hinder your success for the most part. You will not be as successful as you would say in a dueling area such as the burg. I have run into a few youtubers and forum people in the forest and can tell you their stay was short and the things they said they would not do they end up doing. It is an environment of corruption and once you except that fact you will at least free yourself of any notion of honor.

    Case in point last night I dropped my sunbro summon sign in the forest and instead because of the terrible peer to peer protocols of this game I was forced into invading. I see two guys standing at the summon point by the forest entrance. I figure oh well time to get busy because I care less if I win or loose. Both bow to me then the summoned person backs off and its just me and the guy defending his world. I figure well ok maybe there might be some honor in this place after all. I proceed to pick him apart and counter his numerous attempts at rolling back stabs. He's down to his last 20 hp and rolls behind a tree and attempts to heal. So much for honor LOL. It has been proven time and time again. People in forums claiming they always fight fair yet get caught in youtube vids showing them doing the opposite. The forest is a place where the worst of our human instincts take hold of even the most honorable. To me this should be the case and should always be no matter what. I have seen it all and have done it all. I fight honorable in areas that are honorable and fight without restrictions in places that are not. For the life of me I dont understand such vitriolic hate and anger when it comes to unseeming behavour in the forest. Especially from those that invade. When I was a forest hunter I knew when I entered the forest what I was in for. I knew that almost 90 percent of the time I would face 2 or 3 people waiting for me. So I went in there with the mind set of not being afraid to loose. Not careing if I won or lost...period. The people that rage the most are those that are unable to accept loosing. Each player much self evaluate themselves and ask if they have an aversion to loosing. If they do I would highly recommend they stay out of the forest because it is not for them. But if they love the idea of challenging their skills against multiple players good and bad, and also do not care if they fail or succeed then they will fit right in.

    Now as a sunbro some of the most successful builds for the forest have been the buffer kamakazi builds. Those that carry about 10 to 15 wraths, use crown of dusk, use power within, use the dragon magic buff ring or faith ring, has a few dark beads on hand, buff their weapons with sunlight or darkmoon blades, that cast magic barrier, and lastly cast twop upon entering the world. The real and true try hard build of all time. One of the very first builds I fought against, minus the beads of course, back on day one from a japanese player. These are the people that just hate having to challenge themselves as fighters and need to stack the deck dramatically in their favor in order to fight. Theres a few of these dork nobs up here at 710 I run into. Its funny when you catch them before they can attempt to prepare themselves for a fight because they will suicide instead of fight you if they have not activated all their tricks LOL. But be warned people who use this method of fighting are not very good at all without their handicaps. They like to think they are but they are not. Oh by the way I left out hornets ring too LOL. The counter to this build is actually very easy. Patience. If your an agressive fighter you wont be that successful against these builds but if you wait them out and pressure them when they try to heal before the power within kills them then the fight is pretty easy to win. There are a few other tricky builds but I will save that for another time. Praise the sun and pass the ammunition. Just my opin
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by AzureCrow on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:52 pm

    Xero wrote:I actually prefer fighting dark magic users. They just spam their spells i dodge and then kill them in 2 hits. What i really hate are the tryhards. Today i fought a guy who had 1500+ health, heavy armor and was using CMW on a washing pole and on top of that he used pursuers. Of course he spamed "well what is it" after he killed me. I have no idea how to counter that level of tryhardness.

    This sounds like the bread and butter of system pvp, not what should be aspired for but the cold reality of players who want to win but haven't played enough to learn the games tricks.

    As for forest pvp the issue is it's something any player any level can be connected to anyone else largely at random. This is also its greatest strength as it allows fast paced constant invasions regardless of a players level.

    As far as honor in the forest anyone will tell you to never invade expecting it but always hope to find it. Hunters get distraught fighting gankers and learn that the only way to guarantee a win is with the environment or another player to help them. The hosts on the otherhand are stuck fighting bloodthirsty invaders and the occasional pro hunter, the kinds of players who could partial parry on command and counter bs every step you take, so they begin summoning help and realize they get numerous kills and tens of thousands of souls by doing so.

    At the end of the day forest pvp is completely unique from any other area, normally players looking to score easy kills would invade and all of us are used to the invaders who jumps out of nowhere to bs us while we pve, we almost expect it. While players looking for true pvp will be waiting in the places duels are held using high level gear and controlling how they're invaded. But in the forest there is only forest pvp, there isn't the usual separation of experienced pvpers or of players looking for duels from straight invaders.

    Hunters should respect 1v1's but that's their choice and more than anything they have no way of knowing a fight they invaded is fair. A hunter could be low on health and casts after taking out 2 phantoms and the second that first hunter falls the host is going to run straight for the nearest summon sign and turtle for 30 seconds.(it happens a lot) As far as healing goes if your giving your opponent room to heal they should. Especially if multiple opponents are chasing them.

    Players really should play both sides, I for one know how hard it is to host in the forest so I invade, but frankly this is the kind of game where a good player could easily defeat 3 if they know how. If you cant they you aren't good enough yet, I sure as Izalith know I'm not. Prostration
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:03 pm

    Awesome post men and not men anyone got a question or scenario


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:34 am

    people in forums claiming they always fight fair yet get caught in youtube vids showing them doing the opposite.

    No way. You'll never see me claiming I fight fair happy.

    As an invader, I see a lot more 1v2 than 2v1. WAY more. I always help out other catbros, because catbros are generally outnumbered. With darkwraiths I'm a bit more slow to help them out, mainly because there is a possibility that they're on the host's side or want to kill me for fun or souls, so I approach hosts at a guarded distance with them around (though I do try not to fire tempest darkwraiths that are actually fighting a host or phantom, if only to help my own survival). I also get annoyed when catbros DON'T dogpile because honestly that's what the forest is for.

    Now some tips:

    1. Ring of fog, which you get as an invader. When you invade, slap it on and keep your distance. VERY few phantoms wear these (some hosts do) so you can generally see the shining phantom before they are close to seeing you. Move away from spawn so that they don't just find you by blinding running between spawns. Using this, you can get help via waiting...if you want help.

    2. If you spawn in at the entrance and 2 people are waiting with WoG, you're probably going to die. From has a very sucky spawn algorithm, as in basically none (just randoms). Despite this, it's still better than the spawn system found in most modern shooters since you might go an hour without getting spawn-killed but in most shooters you won't go more than a game or two (20 minutes tops) big grin.

    3. There are a few chokes and difficult terrain areas you can hide to buy time. That area down the ladder, the trees nearby the path down there (1 way in near a cliff), and the area with alvina make it harder for 2 people to deal with you and open up the use of otherwise more difficult sorceries. For example, if you are being chased on the bridge with decent poise you can often turn on them and use a flame tempest. Whoever is chasing will often roll into his ally and not get far enough away, and getting around to BS isn't likely either so they HAVE to break your poise or they die.

    The jump over the cliff often forces a split too.

    4. Apparently the dark bead shotgun is pretty good. I've not fought it a great deal, but the fact that it hits you without hitting you from lag is the only bad aspect. Still, you can easily 1-shot a lot of gankers with it and it's a lot easier to land than a tempest (though it also has much higher stat req)

    5. Personally one of my favorite things to do in 2v2 is cast power within and charge right into the 2 people trying to kill the other catbro, facing whoever faces me while casting fire tempest <3. A lot of invasions have ended this way, and well over half of them favorably to the FH big grin. I'm not sure how much PW + bellowing ring + dusk crown does with tempest, but the answer seems to be "enough to 1-shot almost everyone). Surprisingly, a lot of people roll with only 1100-1400 hp which I hit for a lot when they die. If you're going to use PW though, use it situationally. In 1v1 a lot of hosts will just turtle you dead and it can be quite hard to press them in the lag unless you have something with excellent chip damage..

    Hunters should respect 1v1's but that's their choice and more than
    anything they have no way of knowing a fight they invaded is fair.

    That's exactly why they shouldn't respect 1v1. Hosts in the forest ALMOST never do; why should the hunters? It's a crappy double standard and it takes away from the true nature of this (as you say) unique PvP. People can duel anywhere, but there is only one forest.

    And it's ours.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Xero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:32 am

    So if you see a forest hunter and the host fighting 1v1 without anyone using cheap tactics you will attack the host because most of them are assholes? Thats racist.
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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Sentiel on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:25 am

    The Forest is a great place to learn some PvP. The pressure, when you're facing a host and his phantom, or when you deal with an invader and there's suddenly a second one, will teach you a lot.

    Learning PvP in duels is impossible, since there's lot of things you can't use, for one reason, or another.

    I'm having duels with one of forum member occasionally with only one rule. Don't backstab.
    I'm cool with it, I don't like something long and sharp sticking out of my chest anyway. But if you do this and then play with someone else, who doesn't follow, nor care about this "rule" of yours...you're gonna have a bad time. And most people, instead of focusing on how to counter backstab attempts will just say it's cheap, has no honor etc.
    You can take a look at Dark Bead for a fine example. A lot of people say it's OP. Is it? Who cares?! You can punish it, block it, evade it whatever. What was OP was Strong Magic Shield invulnerability bug, that was OP, but still could be countered by VoS, waiting for it to turn off etc. Dark Bead is nothing in comparison to gank of three immortal housewifes.

    I usually come to Forest, clear the NPCs and wait on the open place, near Alvina for invaders. If nothing happens for some time, I proceed to clear out trees and later mushrooms, so invaders have no mobs to hide behind from me. It's usually no problem if they do, but when you're on NG+ and higher, the mobs are usually more dangerous that said invader.

    Some invaders just invade and go hide somewhere. I'm not sure if it's their brilliant strategy to killing me, or if they just wait for another invader, but I just usually ignore them and most of them never show themselves. Playing Hide&Seek with someone can be fun, even if childish, but I'm not gonna go look for someone wearing Ring of Fog in dark forest, there's no way I'm not gonna get ambushed.

    I especially love to do one thing.
    In the part of the Forest where you can find Eastern Armor set, you can jump down to the Hydra area. If somebody follows you, they get a ton of HP damage and are easy to kill. If they don't you can enjoy their suffering as they look all around the place for you.

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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:51 am

    Thats right sentinel it is the best place to learn pvp if you can kill to enemies who spam and backstab one is a piece of cake ,the forest is no place for fair fights If you come into the forest at night be sure your ready for an unfair fight


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Rudmed on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:45 am

    Are some hunter hypocritical? Yes...yes they can be quite hypocritical. Glory to Alvina hunters often give a host dueling someone a fair chance. However there are things that set us off, and...well then the host tends to get screwed.

    But my tactics are if really outnumbered or against hackers. Go down the ladder on the way to cats, and go around the column of the bridge. Use WOG or any spell that has a knockback to it and just smach them as they try to cross. You'd be suprised how many gankers try to cross after they see their comrade get knocked into the water.


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

    Post by Lord of Ash on Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:04 pm

    What do if you invade as a blue spirit and a red spirit invades and starts attacking the host?

    The host backstabs the red phantom 3 times after spamming wrath of gods the red phantom hasnt taken any damage what do you do help the red phantom the host or just watch


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    Re: A Guide on Forest Survival

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