Dark magic wrecking the game

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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by GkMrBane on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:36 pm

    raecor14 wrote:that may make me less butt hurt

    Sorry bro you just made me laugh with that.

    and I agree with Glute as well.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by steveswede on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:00 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Sentiel wrote:As I've said previously, I disagree to DB being OP, however, I think that it's requirements of 16 Int are too low and should be higher, especially considering the power it has on 16 Int, even with basic catalyst.

    yea 16 is low, they could have dome something like they did with HCSM, at 16 int it only shoots 2 orbs, at 20 it shoots 3.. etc..

    I'm usually the one to shout out against modifying magic because to me it's finally viable in PvP but this is a fantastic idea to balance it so it only really benefits high level mage characters.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:20 pm

    Melee players are just uncomforablewith the idea that a spell is actuallly usefull at close range. All the regular Sorceries can be strafed or rolled fairly easly. When was the last time someone actually got hit by HCS or CSS, the last time I got hit by one of those was when I was fighting someone else and my back turned so I couldn't see them cast it.

    Edit: I like the idea of less int = less orbs though. Dark bead makes all bosses laughable if you can get it early enough, and I'm still laughing as of NG+3 lol


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by steveswede on Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:48 pm

    Sloth9230 wrote:Melee players are just uncomforablewith the idea that a spell is actuallly usefull at close range.

    I mainly melee and I love the fact that I could get owned by spells close up. Whiners are whiners at the end of the day, they would just nerf anything they don't like without any rational or balanced solution. I actually think most of the spells in DkS need buffing, like when you cast soul arrows you should be able to keep moving, more number of casts for dark fog, casting speed should be faster for dark orb, stuff like this would spice up fighting mages.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:45 pm

    yeah dark orb is undewhelming, if it was stronger i'd understand its slow start up but... geez it isn't that strong...


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:58 pm

    I read this, and then I wonder: What about all those builds that would just load up like 5 stacks of WoG+ungodly poise and TWoP+Greatsword stunlock?

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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:04 pm

    Personally I think it's a little too powerful. That's just me.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by aceluby on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:00 pm

    I think the new magic is good for the game. I'm seeing WAY more variety in builds and my pure caster builds are actually viable. Now if they could only do something to make archer only builds more viable and you'd have a nearly perfect game. With that being said, I like the idea of basing the number of orbs on Int like HCSM.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:20 pm

    I honestly just don't like the miracles and magic in Dark Souls. Not because i think they are OP(although Dark Bead is one of the best spells), but because they just aren't really implemented all that well. I think the pyro spells are by far the best(in the way they work).

    I hope in the next game they make magic more like pyro, in the sense that it doesn't do insane damage but you can use just magic and have tons of it. I don't like how magic is basically: Use items to boost damage+use most powerful spells possible and try to get 1-2 shot kills. I just don't find that fun to fight, or play as.


    Basically i think that there shouldn't be items that boost magic damage, and using Dark Bead as an example, cut the damage in half and double the amount of castings. It sounds a lot more fun, and makes a lost more sense for magic to just have a lot more casts and do a lot less damage. I actually like the dark magics design, it is just the whole 1-2shot style of playing a mage that i think is badly designed.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by raecor14 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:28 pm

    but magic was never meant to be close range, that could be like a melee guys THROWING his sword at you from a distance (that would however be the funnest thing) it would be like a faith user having a vast library of spells, it would be like getting face stabbed though lag. im not saying magic should be all far range but NO magic should be close range, if you want to fight that close welcome to buffs.

    i actually love the way magic is done because of the sacrifices you have to make it get it worthwhile. take the CSS at 50 int with the TCC it dose INSANE damage, but its easy to dodge and to get 50 int you have to sacrifice something important (health or stamina). pyro i actually hate, but then again its al about preference


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:36 pm

    raecor14 wrote:but magic was never meant to be close range, that could be like a melee guys THROWING his sword at you from a distance (that would however be the funnest thing) it would be like a faith user having a vast library of spells, it would be like getting face stabbed though lag. im not saying magic should be all far range but NO magic should be close range, if you want to fight that close welcome to buffs.

    i actually love the way magic is done because of the sacrifices you have to make it get it worthwhile. take the CSS at 50 int with the TCC it dose INSANE damage, but its easy to dodge and to get 50 int you have to sacrifice something important (health or stamina). pyro i actually hate, but then again its al about preference

    You said it yourself "easy to dodge". It could do 2000 damage, but if you can dodge it by just strafing then it's useless.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:41 pm

    raecor14 wrote:but magic was never meant to be close range, that could be like a melee guys THROWING his sword at you from a distance (that would however be the funnest thing) it would be like a faith user having a vast library of spells, it would be like getting face stabbed though lag. im not saying magic should be all far range but NO magic should be close range, if you want to fight that close welcome to buffs.

    i actually love the way magic is done because of the sacrifices you have to make it get it worthwhile. take the CSS at 50 int with the TCC it dose INSANE damage, but its easy to dodge and to get 50 int you have to sacrifice something important (health or stamina). pyro i actually hate, but then again its al about preference

    I don't know, i really dislike how playing a pure caster mage means you have to try and 1-2 shot people. Not sure why there shouldn't be close range magic either, magic version of Great Combustion would be cool(just made me think of the tower of latrias guards spell, that the maneaters use too).

    You can play a pure pyro, and have a fun fight with a pure melee build. Playing a pure caster mage, basically means you only hit your opponent at most 3 times. There is just either some luck or dodging involved. Even pyro i think should do less damage(although without any dusks or bellowing it isn't that bad), just have more castings.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Rynn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:42 pm

    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:yeah dark orb is undewhelming, if it was stronger i'd understand its slow start up but... geez it isn't that strong...
    It's insanely difficult to dodge. I like using it for BS fishers on my mage.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:44 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    sparkly-twinkly-lizard wrote:yeah dark orb is undewhelming, if it was stronger i'd understand its slow start up but... geez it isn't that strong...
    It's insanely difficult to dodge. I like using it for BS fishers on my mage.

    I don't think ive seen a single person on ps3 use Dark Orb in PvP. It is always Pursuers,Dark Bead,HCSM,and CSS.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by raecor14 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:48 pm

    well if you like a fun fight, dont play a caster silly


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Sloth9230 on Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:55 pm

    I think dark bead could use a nerfed, but like fruitpunchninja said it would need more casts and that would probably encourage more spamming. I don't think it matters if you can 3 shot a person or 10 shot them, if you can land 3 hits then you could land ten. It's the same with dodging, if you can dodge it once then you could dodge it as many times as you need too, so long as you can do it consistently.

    I once faced a guy who beat with nothing but his fists and a lot(and I mean a lot)of backstabs. That guy would would have had me outclassed regardless of the what weapon he used.

    Sure every now and then luck/lag will play into it as well but hey it happens, if you lost because of lag or you pressed the wrong button then w/e just keep playing.

    Fruitpunch: I use dark orb every now and then, they expect a darkbead and dodge early only to get hit by the orb instead.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Ghadis_God on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm

    Just learn to dodge them for god's sake, I'm sure you got hit by many a CSS or CHSM because you didn't know the timing when you were a noob, just learn how to avoid the Dark Magic (most people are just whining about dark bead and maybe pursuers) and kill the skilless noobs who like to spam it.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:13 pm

    Does no one remember how back in 1.05 with a similar build you could do this with CSS basically? At longer range and at close range? It was easier to dodge but made up for it by being deadly no matter how far from them you were. It's no OP it simply an extension of everything mages had before. Sorcery has always been something you buffed up and one shot people with. This is just annoy because people havent learnt to dodge it yet.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Thundergrip on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:43 pm

    I don't find dark magic too difficult to deal with.

    If you run with the Crest Shield (a totally viable shield to use) it's not even an issue.
    If you don't like that, GMB or simply MB do wonders.
    If you don't like either of those stratagems, you can avoid all of the dark magic except pursuers by rolling.
    Pursuers you can avoid by simply running away for 10 seconds.

    Sure, if you have lag, you have to roll a bit early, but lag creates plenty of balance issues besides dark magic.

    I'm tired of people complaining about dark magic - It's CMW catanas and lagstab that account for my worst deaths.

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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by BrotherBob on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:50 pm

    My problem with Dark Magic is not that it's OP (which I do think it is). My problem is that it's so boring! Before, magic and miracles were usually used as support for a primarily melee offensive (for most builds I came across). But now, I will likely seldom have the pleasure of parrying and riposting.


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:08 pm

    I personally just like how pyro was implemented compared to Magic. It has a nice variety of spells, and while hitting someone with a fireball locked on is somewhat difficult you can become very accurate with unlocked casts. They also don't do THAT much damage(it is good).

    I totally agree that magic is fairly easy to dodge, that is the problem i have with it. Pretty much every time ive ever been killed by a CSS it was because they 1shot me when i bowed, snuck up from behind in the forest/dark anor, or one of those phantom hits where you have 5ft between you and still take full damage.

    Dark magic is harder to dodge, but not that hard. I usually only get hit due to lag or because i am forced to block which breaks my guard and guarantees a kill basically. That is only really in small areas like the burg, large areas i almost never have issues with it unless lag is REALLY bad.

    That is my point, magic shouldn't be so reliant on lag or your opponent having noob level dodging skills. I don't really care if anything is changed in DkS, but i hope the magic in the next game is better(i don't necessarily mean more powerful). You should be able to play a pure mage caster like you can play a pure Pyro caster in DkS.


    I think a fast DeS style soul arrow would be a good basic spell. Then like i mentioned a close range sonic boom spell like the mind flyers have in DeS would be cool. I don't want them to just be copys of the pyro, but a large AOE spell like firestorm(it could maybe come from the sky, idk). Then maybe something like fire surge(i know, these are just copys) where you shoot a magic beam. My point is, i think magic should have more then just simple projectile type spells. I'm sure others could think of better spells, but i really hope DkS2 improves the magic(but doesn't make it just about high damage)
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:12 pm

    Well, there are magics that are different than the projectile-style spells. Case in point, everything Dusk sells and a lot of the spells Griggs sells.

    People may choose not to use them, but that doesn't mean that they do not exist.

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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by billy_bayonet on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:15 pm

    i got killed by a soul arrow the other day while invading.......ITS OP!! ITS OP NEEDS A NERF!!!


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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:23 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:Well, there are magics that are different than the projectile-style spells. Case in point, everything Dusk sells and a lot of the spells Griggs sells.

    People may choose not to use them, but that doesn't mean that they do not exist.

    None of those are Offensive spells,and besides hidden weapon(out classed by CMW) and Chameleon(i do hope they keep chameleon) they aren't very good. Fall control can come in useful during invasions, if you want to save on humanity or won't have time to pop one.
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    Re: Dark magic wrecking the game

    Post by Rynn on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:54 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:i got killed by a soul arrow the other day while invading.......ITS OP!! ITS OP NEEDS A NERF!!!
    Mine do 700 damage a cast. I assure you everyone is thinking that when I smash them with one.

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