Parry Bait!

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    BLA1NE
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    Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:12 pm

    Over the last few months, I haven't played Dark Souls all that much. In fact, I took a good 2 months off, and since then only played sporadically. I find it hasn't affected my skill level very much (in PvE especially, I'm almost as sharp as ever), but one thing I'm struggling to get back is my PvP parrying skill. Before taking my break from Dark Souls, I got really good at it, to the point where I rarely ever missed. Any weapon of ultra-great size was an auto-parry, and anything smaller was too if they chained more than 1 attack at a time. But my bread and butter was the prediction parry! I knew all the weapon timings by proximity, to the point where as soon as my opponent was a certain distance from me I knew to parry before he attacked and I'd get it.

    Anyways, all this to say: when I got back, I couldn't parry worth a **** anymore! So I practiced, and I still can't get close to where I was. I'm getting relatively comfortable against ultra-greatswords again, and anything else if they chain more than 2 attacks. But my overall success rate is nowhere near what it used to be, I parry spam almost an embarrassing amount, and my prediction parries are sporadically successful. But all this has made me remember a great parry technique and one I'm relying on more now, the point of this thread: parry baiting!

    (By the way, I never use a shield. So all this info is especially useful for people who PvP with no shield.) The point is to force your enemy to put himself into position to get parried. The beauty is that you don't need to predict so much, since you're manipulating your opponent into doing what you want. Also, it's a lot of fun to pull off! So all you gotta do, is throw around empty attacks (attacks that aren't meant to hit, because you're too far, or you'll cancel them, etc.) your opponent is likely to want to punish. You know them: casting a spell, using a bow, using a lunging attack, etc. I've been using the lunging attack a lot lately, and it's especially good with the PGS.

    For the lunging bait, all you have to do is get familiar with the optimal range: not so close that your opponent will be able to backstab you, but not so far that he won't want to come in to punish you. Once you know the sweet spot, all you have to do is hit that forward-R2, and immediately L2 when they come in to punish your whiff!

    I'm sure many of you knew this technique, but I just wanted to remind you all of its effectiveness, and also teach it to those of you trying to learn PvP parrying and having a hard time pull it off. Have fun parry baiting, everyone!


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Seignar on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:24 pm

    I learned to parry bait from Some guy, but I seldom parry anymore. It has a lot of risk factors in-between missing and getting backstabbed. Once you do that parry, your opponent will be aware that you have the confidence to do it and he/she will in turn change their patterns to learn your patterns (Least, that's what I'd do).

    Regardless, I don't parry bait anymore because I just full Havel + PGS or parrying is way too dangerous business in fighting gankers. I rather focus on baiting a backstab so I can counter backstab, even if the gains are smaller, the risk of losing is lower.

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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:30 pm

    That's why I like jumping attacks so much. They are the bread and butter for both my counter to parry spammers and my way to bait parries myself.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:36 pm

    ^Depending on the weapon, lunging attacks can be a risky attack to use when you're trying to hit your opponent. Weapons that have a wide horizontal swing arc are great, but those that have a vertical lunging attack are easy to side-step and backstab punish. Personally, I prefer to use a whip against parry spammers! But for sure, with the right weapon, lunging attacks are great on their own.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:45 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:^Depending on the weapon, lunging attacks can be a risky attack to use when you're trying to hit your opponent. Weapons that have a wide horizontal swing arc are great, but those that have a vertical lunging attack are easy to side-step and backstab punish. Personally, I prefer to use a whip against parry spammers! But for sure, with the right weapon, lunging attacks are great on their own.

    Are you a curved sword user for the most part? Just judging from your other posts, that's what it seems like, and I can understand your wariness using jump attacks wIth them.

    The Great Scythe is my preferred weapon, so it's really useful for staying out of range to stop a quick BS after a jumping attack.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:48 pm

    Yeah, I use the Painting Guardian Sword most of the time. Also why I don't use rolling-R1s much! But for the lunging attacks, I was speaking mostly as someone on the receiving end of them a lot. They're very easy to punish, even when you don't go for the backstab. It's the windup--clearly telegraphing the lunge, giving you time to roll in and do whatever you like to counter.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:03 pm

    Exactly why I do it when I know they're walking up for a parry or when they're out of range to really do anything to me before I recover.

    But back on-topic, parry baiting is my favorite way to parry since I've been the most consistent with it and I go bare-handed in my left hand all the time.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by SATLOS on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:31 pm

    Parry is getting harder to land because more people are--SHOCK--learning not to spam R1.

    I haven't been playing much since the flickering glitch started, but when I was playing, I saw A LOT less R1 spam.

    There are certain ways to trigger it, still, though, like backing them into a corner. ^_^
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:01 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:Over the last few months, I haven't played Dark Souls all that much. In fact, I took a good 2 months off, and since then only played sporadically. I find it hasn't affected my skill level very much (in PvE especially, I'm almost as sharp as ever), but one thing I'm struggling to get back is my PvP parrying skill. Before taking my break from Dark Souls, I got really good at it, to the point where I rarely ever missed. Any weapon of ultra-great size was an auto-parry, and anything smaller was too if they chained more than 1 attack at a time. But my bread and butter was the prediction parry! I knew all the weapon timings by proximity, to the point where as soon as my opponent was a certain distance from me I knew to parry before he attacked and I'd get it.

    Anyways, all this to say: when I got back, I couldn't parry worth a **** anymore! So I practiced, and I still can't get close to where I was. I'm getting relatively comfortable against ultra-greatswords again, and anything else if they chain more than 2 attacks. But my overall success rate is nowhere near what it used to be, I parry spam almost an embarrassing amount, and my prediction parries are sporadically successful. But all this has made me remember a great parry technique and one I'm relying on more now, the point of this thread: parry baiting!

    (By the way, I never use a shield. So all this info is especially useful for people who PvP with no shield.) The point is to force your enemy to put himself into position to get parried. The beauty is that you don't need to predict so much, since you're manipulating your opponent into doing what you want. Also, it's a lot of fun to pull off! So all you gotta do, is throw around empty attacks (attacks that aren't meant to hit, because you're too far, or you'll cancel them, etc.) your opponent is likely to want to punish. You know them: casting a spell, using a bow, using a lunging attack, etc. I've been using the lunging attack a lot lately, and it's especially good with the PGS.

    For the lunging bait, all you have to do is get familiar with the optimal range: not so close that your opponent will be able to backstab you, but not so far that he won't want to come in to punish you. Once you know the sweet spot, all you have to do is hit that forward-R2, and immediately L2 when they come in to punish your whiff!

    I'm sure many of you knew this technique, but I just wanted to remind you all of its effectiveness, and also teach it to those of you trying to learn PvP parrying and having a hard time pull it off. Have fun parry baiting, everyone!

    I still remember that time when I invaded you in Lost Izalith and you parried me with a whip and kicked my ***. I will never forget that. Someday I will have my revenge...


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:23 pm

    ^You mean I invaded you. lol I didn't want to kill you... but my reflexes kicked in and I couldn't hold back the riposte!


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by RANT on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:30 pm

    i usually just attack at max range with my DGM, then they see they can punish my bait and instead they go in for a running attack which ends up getting parried, works pretty well for me. damn i wish i got invaded or invaded people here in the forum, i think ive only invaded lance once and that's about it.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by ChizFreak on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:39 pm

    BLA1NE wrote:^You mean I invaded you. lol I didn't want to kill you... but my reflexes kicked in and I couldn't hold back the riposte!

    You're right, you invaded me. It was long a time ago, back when I was still doing my first steps in PvP, those times where I used my Iato all the time. Eager to meet you again in Lordran...


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:40 pm

    My classic trick, throwing daggers. Best used with lag. Throw them close to your enemy prompting them to go for a strike, but not close enough for a BS. After you throw immediately parry, because of the lag they'll see you still at the end of the throw as they get parried. Then comes the glorious riposte.
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:46 pm

    @Rant

    I've invaded a few, it's always fun! I've always secretly hoped I'd come to the forums one day and someone'll be talking about what an invader just did to him, not realizing that invader was me. silly Hasn't happened yet, though... sad

    @Chiz

    I don't play much anymore so the odds of invading people from the forums are remote... but I hope it'll happen again, for sure! Hang around Lost Izalith to increase your chances. happy

    @Tolvo

    Good one, throwing knives are also a good bait. It's a good idea to have many tricks in your repertoire--the more you have, the more chances for your opponent to slip up. I encourage everyone to think up more baiting techniques!


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by RANT on Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:58 pm

    dude remember the time a guy posted about them owning an invader with their r2 CMW/ricard's rapier and it turned out to be glute? then he said what really happened and he did it while glute was bowing lol, i remember that guy saying how he owned him because he let his guard down while dueling.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:32 am

    Haha that's hilarious! Had to be Glute, too... I remember one time we were having FC in btown, and Glute was trying to invade his way into a duel rather than wait to be summoned. When he made it I was already summoned, and rather than duel him, as a joke, I ganked him like an unwanted invader. Waited around a corner, lagstabbed him, then stun-locked him to death when he got to his feet... I thought he'd take it laughing, but he didn't, at all! I felt bad and apologized, but I'm pretty sure he never really knew it was me.

    If any stories implicating me do pop up on the forums, I hope they're not like that one!


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by RANT on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:40 am

    yeah, he was p1ssed lol


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:15 am

    Glatts got me with the lunging attack bait once, I was ashamed for falling for that trick (blind parried him and won the duel afterwards though, so that got my self esteem up again silly).


    I used to be really good at blind parrying/prediction parry, not as good as you apparently were. But i landed a parry in almost all of my invasion (it's a lot harder to parry in duels for some reason, probably because i duel mostly against good players). But i'm not very good anymore. I don't even play DkS that much anymore either, so i don't want to train to become good again. And i can win most of my fights even without parrying, or rather, by only setup parrying.
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Juutas on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:15 am

    The Letter X wrote:That's why I like jumping attacks so much. They are the bread and butter for both my counter to parry spammers and my way to bait parries myself.

    This. Jump attack is very viable against parry happy people because that is the last thing they expect and often get hit by it. Kick is a good tool too, but not all weapons have the kick or the speed after kick to combo a follow up attack.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:18 am

    Juutas wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:That's why I like jumping attacks so much. They are the bread and butter for both my counter to parry spammers and my way to bait parries myself.

    This. Jump attack is very viable against parry happy people because that is the last thing they expect and often get hit by it. Kick is a good tool too, but not all weapons have the kick or the speed after kick to combo a follow up attack.

    The best thing to do against parry spammers is to roar. It will always break their guard, and that will leave them open. Some weapons aren't fast enough to always hit, and it depends on how far away they are. But a jump attack from a UGW will always hit twisted
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Juutas on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:01 am

    Spurgun wrote:
    Juutas wrote:
    The Letter X wrote:That's why I like jumping attacks so much. They are the bread and butter for both my counter to parry spammers and my way to bait parries myself.

    This. Jump attack is very viable against parry happy people because that is the last thing they expect and often get hit by it. Kick is a good tool too, but not all weapons have the kick or the speed after kick to combo a follow up attack.

    The best thing to do against parry spammers is to roar. It will always break their guard, and that will leave them open. Some weapons aren't fast enough to always hit, and it depends on how far away they are. But a jump attack from a UGW will always hit twisted

    The BEST thing against parryspam is backstab and I don't mind doing it if someone is parrying like CRAZY, but yeah dragon bros got a pretty effective weapon against parryspammers happy


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:22 am

    Backstabbing after a roar is also possible. It will deal more damage than a normal BS due to the boost from the roar. But i prefer to just smash them into the ground.

    And i don't mind people who BS me when i try to parry them, it's a risk i take when i parry.
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by The Letter X on Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:30 am

    I just realized how funky it must look when I successfully bait someone into a parry. When I'm two-handing the Great Scythe and get a whiff, I switch to my next right hand weapon and parry rather than switching to one-handing the Great Scythe. I find switching weapons is MUCH more responsive and quicker than swItchIng from 1h/2h.


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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by Nybbles on Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:49 pm

    i'm trying to get better at parrying, i never felt i had to before but now that i'm running around as Artorias, parrying is my best defense, not having a shield and what not. i've tried the whole prediction parry thing, i've hit maybe one and been stun-locked for the rest. i'll have to try baiting instead, but my timing is generally awful when it comes to parrying. i've only ever scored parries against spammers, but if i miss, i'm dead.
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    Re: Parry Bait!

    Post by BLA1NE on Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:10 pm

    When you're not using a shield it's especially important to have poise. I find >53 is good enough, but as Artorias you only have 37. I definitely recommend the Wolf's Ring! Even if changing rings will bring you from fast rolling to med rolling, it'll be worth it, if you really want to parry. Otherwise I'd play it safe and only try to parry as a last resort when you're so vulnerable to getting stunlocked.


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