Backstab is a Mistake

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    raecor14
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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by raecor14 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:38 am

    i love backstabs because it is a legit way to make your toon. makes the game herder and more fun. leave the backstabs alone and go back to hating on the persuers. NOW there is a deadly little spell.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Sentiel on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:11 am

    I think backstabs are fine as they are now.

    They're a good way to punish some stupid antics, like healing in middle of a fight, casting one of the longer spells etc.
    You're not gonna let that guy gulp in on another flask, or let him cast his AoE spell and get away with it, right?

    What I think is wrong, is backstab fishing, but that's not the game's fault, it's just some jerks that have kicks from OHKO-ing people with BKGA and such.

    But still, it's a viable and legit tactic, no matter how much I hate it.

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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by befowler on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:29 pm

    I think tweaking the BS hitbox smaller would be a simple change that would make a difference. Sometimes I BS people when I don't even want to, because they are so easy to land. That never used to happen to me in DeS.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:41 pm

    Ha ha! I shall smite thee with an overhead attack with my Great Scythe! Mwah ha ha....what the hell? Sorry for the backstab dude. Yup. I've done that. My biggest concern is lag though actually. We talk about the blatant lag like teleport backstabs etc. but I wonder how many times players are just a few degrees off of where they look like they are, increasing that hit box just enough to be ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, it's a big hitbox.....just ask the Black Knights at the Kiln but I had to practice a little to get it to work consistently on them. In PvP it was much simpler to figger out.

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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:10 pm

    I usually don't back stab for 3 reasons.
    1) the fight lasts longer and is more entertaining
    2) I hate when people lag stab me, i know its not their fault but it is very annoying which is why i don't back stab people so that they don't get the whole wtf just happened moment.
    3) I hate the stupid dance people do when both people are trying to get a back stab. This isn't ring around the rosie this is DARK SOULS
    The only time i back stab is on pve or when i am fighting two or more people at once
    but if lag stab was fixed i would be fine with it, though i know that would be almost impossible to fix


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Avenger649 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:18 pm

    In response to the above post I would say a few things:
    1.Having people turtle is incredibly infuriating and I usually just want to fight to end especially if I am on low health and they just poke with a rapier. In this situation any kind of tactic to kill them is fine as they are sometimes near impossible to kill.
    2.The lag stabs are easily countered when you put your back against a wall. You would be amazed (probably) at the amount of people who are utterly confused as they cannot implement their chief strategy.
    3.The circling technique is amusing but by far a waste of time, most people who do this are usually either inexperienced and so they see this a good tactic or just bad at the game, most people are too proficient at at roll BS'ing to care about circling.

    I will backstab turtles, I will counter backstab BS fishers and I will do it against gankers and forest hunters as they are no better than Gankers quite a lot of the time.
    As for accidental Backstabs, generally people are not too angry but some have been.
    Also, I would like to see backstab boxes reduced, because of the hornet ring and it would stop chain backstabbers some of the time.
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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:28 pm

    I never said i turtle i just don't try to stab them in the back.
    and there isn't always a wall near me and i find it boring to fight right by a wall
    and yeah just lower the backstab boxes i think they are a little too large


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Aznul on Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:50 pm

    Personally I don't backstab in pvp, since whenever I try to go for one (so far) I just get lagstabbed (even though I have decent internet). I try to come up with new and interesting techniques to try, since I pvp for fun above all else. Many fights end with me dying to backstabs though and that is certainly frustrating.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:53 pm

    Avenger649 wrote:ctic to kill them is fine as they are sometimes near impossible to kill.
    2.The lag stabs are easily countered when you put your back against a wall. You would be amazed (probably) at the amount of people who are utterly confused as they cannot implement their chief strategy.
    3

    putting your back to the wall used to be cool, till you face some one with WoG, or the new Black Flame, and they just destroy your stamina bar.

    only complete noobs would R1 you when you are against a wall.

    the best counter to BSs is the Counter backstab or off handing pyro.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:00 pm

    Aznul wrote:Personally I don't backstab in pvp, since whenever I try to go for one (so far) I just get lagstabbed (even though I have decent internet). I try to come up with new and interesting techniques to try, since I pvp for fun above all else. Many fights end with me dying to backstabs though and that is certainly frustrating.

    imo the easiest Backstab to pull off is a backstab on some one going for a backstab.

    if some one is trying to fish me and go for BSs i can pretty much BS them on command. but if they arnt trying for a Backstab it is far harder imo.

    they most likely simply counter backstab you. i only backstab if i fight fishers (after i give them more then enough time to stop fishing) or during really long cast animations or weapon recovery.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Rynn on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:13 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Avenger649 wrote:ctic to kill them is fine as they are sometimes near impossible to kill.
    2.The lag stabs are easily countered when you put your back against a wall. You would be amazed (probably) at the amount of people who are utterly confused as they cannot implement their chief strategy.
    3

    putting your back to the wall used to be cool, till you face some one with WoG, or the new Black Flame, and they just destroy your stamina bar.

    only complete noobs would R1 you when you are against a wall.

    the best counter to BSs is the Counter backstab or off handing pyro.
    DARK ORB!
    Requires 110 poise not to get stunned by it, and it has a hitbox that is too large to sidestep, you -must- roll through it. If the person was going to roll BS you, Pyromancy wouldn't have helped either. Dark Orb stuns them, so it completely stops the attempt to backstab, and opens them up for another attack with your weapon.
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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Aznul on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:18 pm

    I think it would be interesting if there was a ring or other item that made you immune to backstabs, but made you unable to cast magic or block or backstab others while it is equipped. Also having the immunity disappear as soon as it is removed, but the other effects remain for 30-60 seconds based on how long you wore it.

    What do you guys think?


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:22 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Glutebrah wrote:
    Avenger649 wrote:ctic to kill them is fine as they are sometimes near impossible to kill.
    2.The lag stabs are easily countered when you put your back against a wall. You would be amazed (probably) at the amount of people who are utterly confused as they cannot implement their chief strategy.
    3

    putting your back to the wall used to be cool, till you face some one with WoG, or the new Black Flame, and they just destroy your stamina bar.

    only complete noobs would R1 you when you are against a wall.

    the best counter to BSs is the Counter backstab or off handing pyro.
    DARK ORB!
    Requires 110 poise not to get stunned by it, and it has a hitbox that is too large to sidestep, you -must- roll through it. If the person was going to roll BS you, Pyromancy wouldn't have helped either. Dark Orb stuns them, so it completely stops the attempt to backstab, and opens them up for another attack with your weapon.

    well yea stopping a roll BS is tough but the idea with the off hand pyro is yea they will "backstab you" but it cancels the damage.


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Rynn on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:23 pm

    The Dark Orb completely stops the backstab, they won't even get the backstab itself off with the orb.
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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Glutebrah on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:35 pm

    Rynn wrote:The Dark Orb completely stops the backstab, they won't even get the backstab itself off with the orb.

    isn't the cast time ridiculously long.. are you talking about dark bead?


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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Rynn on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:48 pm

    No, Dark Orb.
    The one that get's 12 casts. Unless you roll, it's hitbox and movespeed makes it like a semi-truck when it comes to how easy it is to dodge. It throws aside about 140 stamina from 70 stability shields, and if they don't block it, it does a lot of poise, so it's hard to just run through and ignore. Since it stuns, you then get off extra damage by swinging your weapon.
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    Re: Backstab is a Mistake

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:33 pm

    I think the biggest problem with backstabs is that there isn't a greater discrepancy between amounts of damage depending on the weapon. The dagger gets a different critical modifer, which is good, since this is an almost surgically precise weapon. I think they need to take it further.

    Small, short, thrusting weapons should be at the top echelon, and large, blunt weapons should be at the bottom. It's ridiculous that a Great Club even does backstab damage. I'd rather see a backstab from a hammer-wep do minimal damage, but instead knock a bunch of stamina off, and cause stamina to regen at half speed for 30 seconds (imagine the effect of a punch to the solar plexus). This would introduce an entirely new set of strategies. Strength characters would have a way to slow down fast moving dex characters.

    I think that the modifier for critical damage should have been tied to dexterity. This only makes sense, since dex weapons would be the better backstab weapons anyway.

    And although part of me has been tempted to think that dexterity might also reduce the size of the hitbox on your character, I also realize that this would break the game. Everyone would have a dex character. But at least tie the critical modifers to the weapons themselves.

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