Is Karmic Justice broken?553

    Is Karmic Justice broken?

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    Abiathar82
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    Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:09 pm

    WTF! at Karmic Justice , ok so I have become very tired of lag BS and thought that Karmic Justice would be a nice counter to this. Apparently it isnt , what it actually is , is a waste of an attunement slot. Am I doing something wrong. If anyone has tested this thing out quite a bit please let me know what triggers it , thanks.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:10 pm

    I don't think BS or reposte damage triggers it. I think it has to be just regular melee damage. Although I've heard some rumors that it's working with spells now too.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Rarayn on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:12 pm

    IIRC you have to take five or so hits, regardless of the damage they deal (as long as they do deal damage), for it to activate. Karmic Justice is mostly only good against R1 spammers who try to break your poise while you have your shield up, as a shield with 95% physical resistance will still allow Karmic Justice to activate.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:14 pm

    ^ that's a really good idea. I've never considered that before.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:21 pm

    Hmmm , so I have to use a gimp shield for it to work. Interesting another reason to dislike PVP. Anyway thanks guys.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:28 pm

    Any damage works like was stated. They need to happen quick. You might not get to know a r1 spammer until you're into the fight but it can be good there. If you see a catalyst you will likely see an opponent you can work with.

    Let's see, five rapid hits..... hmmmm....five.

    Roll at anyone with a homing soul mass or pursuers. Or have a crest shield, get close and block. I've never seen it not flatten a person


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Rarayn on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:29 pm

    The Eagle Shield only has 95% physical resistance because of the latest patch. Suppose you combined that with Karmic Justice? Could be pretty effective.

    Still, I agree with you that it's not a very good spell. It's only useful in a very small selection of scenarios.

    @skarekrow:
    That sounds like an effective strategy indeed! I'll have to try it some time.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:33 pm

    Ahha , you have peeked my interest kind sir. I Pursuer Killer , as that is probably the second most dreaded thing I face currently , maybe it does have some use. Also good point about the Eagle shield , I forgot about the damage reduction gimp on that. Maybe the spell does have some use although very limited.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:34 pm

    There's also an ultimate reason to use it but I admit it still doesn't work on backstabbers. Cast it in full view of your opponent. Very few people know the trigger point. You will get some extra distance in many cases.

    Oh yeah...it does way less than WoG but the knockdown is ridiculous. Even for this game


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Jester's Tears on Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:55 pm

    Use a shield with 95% Melee reduction. Use Karmic Justice. Nightmare for all R1/Katana spammers. It will react to Constant R1 Spamming and and to Heavy attacks, Normal + Heavy should make it go boom!


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Back Lot Basher on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:02 pm

    I've tried it with the Eagle and the Green Crest, and when it works, it's hilarious. If you're a cleric with 50 in Faith, it's like a nuke. Massive damage and a knockdown. Another thing it can work on is people who turtle with a spear. But generally, you want someone with a katana or dagger hacking at you. Not really a viable miracle, but worth trying at least once just to see what it does to people.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by steveswede on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:09 pm

    Karmic Justice should counter attack even if you block 100% damage. There should be a status meter displayed like the bleed/poison/curse meters so you can judge where it would be most effective. At the moment it's a spell that's really not worth relying on due to how unpredictable it is and From could do in the next update spend a bit of time making this spell more viable.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Carphil on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:27 pm

    I like it because it reminds me of stormruler happy

    It is a bit tricky to active, but also rewarding


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by The Letter X on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:42 pm

    Now I know why so many people cast it when I first invade. I always have a Gold Traced out when invading, but switch to a Great Scythe as soon as the fight starts. I was also worried while using the Great Scythe when facing KJ because I thought it procced when dealing a large amount of damage in a short time period. Really makes me relieved to hear it goes by the number of hits because I'd sometimes deal 1500 damage to someone with KJ active and I felt blessed that it didn't activate.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:47 pm

    Lol. You're almost guaranteed to never trigger it with a great scythe. Go beat anyone up who tries it


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:06 pm

    steveswede wrote:Karmic Justice should counter attack even if you block 100% damage. There should be a status meter displayed like the bleed/poison/curse meters so you can judge where it would be most effective. At the moment it's a spell that's really not worth relying on due to how unpredictable it is and From could do in the next update spend a bit of time making this spell more viable.

    ^ This , it should be more effective than it is and when being attacked should go on a percentage of your health rather than number of attacks. Very few people spam R1 in PVP , unless you are a Gold Tracer fan or just not real smart. I am spamming R1 , please parry me.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by steveswede on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:38 pm

    Abiathar82 wrote:
    steveswede wrote:Karmic Justice should counter attack even if you block 100% damage. There should be a status meter displayed like the bleed/poison/curse meters so you can judge where it would be most effective. At the moment it's a spell that's really not worth relying on due to how unpredictable it is and From could do in the next update spend a bit of time making this spell more viable.

    ^ This , it should be more effective than it is and when being attacked should go on a percentage of your health rather than number of attacks.

    I don't know about that one because it kinda guarantees it activating all the time and I think invaders would just use it constantly to kamikaze hosts. I mean if the KJ was set at say 70% health, then a single attack from a weapon on a low vitality KJ user would just instant counter with it. Technically you would be invincible and could heal and attack without any punishment.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:48 pm

    That is an interesting point. I guess there is no simple solution. Something needs to counter the barrage of BS fishing a$$hats that ruin PVP though. Why is this even an option , really the whole fight you are going to try and BS me and just hope that lag is on your side. I would be happy if KJs soul purpose was to counter BS. If thats all it did it would be worth it. I dont really need it do counter an R1 spam , I have parry for that.

    Broken game is broken yes?

    I truly love PVE and this is probably top 5 RPG games ever for me , but for the love of christ. For a game that is so well made , to have such an obvious flaw as BS fishing blows my mind.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by passivefamiliar on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:57 pm

    Abiathar82 wrote:That is an interesting point. I guess there is no simple solution. Something needs to counter the barrage of BS fishing a$$hats that ruin PVP though. Why is this even an option , really the whole fight you are going to try and BS me and just hope that lag is on your side. I would be happy if KJs soul purpose was to counter BS. If thats all it did it would be worth it. I dont really need it do counter an R1 spam , I have parry for that.

    Broken game is broken yes?

    I truly love PVE and this is probably top 5 RPG games ever for me , but for the love of christ. For a game that is so well made , to have such an obvious flaw as BS fishing blows my mind.


    You and me need to become best friends. Because that entire post is how i've felt since i dove into pvp in this game. SO many ways it could bi tweaked. Adjusted. FIXED! I never mind losing, unless its to the off the wall out of nowhere lagstabs/rollstab/fishers.

    On topic. I tried karmic out for awhile. It is really difficult to make work. If the timing on hits isn't quick enough it won't triger. As has been said. Its pretty much only useful against katanas and the tracers. Maybe the falchion. I'd like to see it be a 100% backstab counter spell. That'd be great, but admitedly a bit OP. And would end up in the opponent just waiting for it to wear off.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by steveswede on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:03 pm

    Backstabs are only an issue due to lag. People wouldn't complain about them if this didn't happen.

    KJ would be more effective if it built up like bleed and with a meter as well. It's important not to make it overpowered and this way would be very balanced providing the rate it increases and decreases is done correctly.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:29 pm

    steveswede wrote:Backstabs are only an issue due to lag. People wouldn't complain about them if this didn't happen.

    KJ would be more effective if it built up like bleed and with a meter as well. It's important not to make it overpowered and this way would be very balanced providing the rate it increases and decreases is done correctly.

    To be honest BS fishers should be punished with the highest OP spell that man kind has ever thought up. It should shoot through their internet connection and jump out into their homes , eat all their food , take a dump on their chest and then burn their house to the ground. If you are so f#(k!ng retarded that the only thing you can think to do in a duel is BS fish (oh am just going to keep circling around you around until lag is in may favor , derpy derp) I dont even think Jesus himself would show you mercy. I wish KJ would counter BS fishers and it would be an instant kill regardless of stats. If you cant win a duel without BSs you do not deserve to win.

    However for regular attacks I aggree it should be a build up like Bleed or poison. To be honest as I have already stated , I do not need it to counter regular attacks. The game already has a counter for spammers , Parry. But KJ souly countering BS is Karmic Justice indeed. It is a final f#(k you to BS fishers.


    Last edited by Abiathar82 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by CaligoIllioneus on Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:53 pm

    It's a great anti-mage tool, especially if you have a crest shield/havel's shield. The moment you see them casting soulmass just rush at them with the shield up, blocking soulmasses makes it explode 100% of the time. Then you get the sorcerer at a disadvantageous position, either flattened on the ground (and you can try to hit him when he stands up or after he tries to roll away) or staggered (where you can continue your charge and land several hits on him).

    The main problem of this spell is how situational it is. Worthless against invaders (as you don't know if they will be mages or not, and they probably won't give you time to prepare) but good for duels where you know the setup of the person you're facing.

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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:38 pm

    Good points Cali , I am assuming it works the same on Pursuers. But it is very situational and because of its cast time would be hard to get off when the situation arose.


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    Re: Is Karmic Justice broken?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:53 am

    It's not too hard depending on location. Forest can be easy. Most players who use a homing variant cast it from a safe distance.


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