Allant's Spies in Latria

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    EpicNameBro

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    Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by EpicNameBro on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:00 am

    Playing through this time, I just realized that the location of the claws and the secret dagger could be hints that Allant was spying on Latria! Cool stuff. Anyone have any ideas on this?

    (Hi, by the way)
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:25 am

    Well I imagine so, he does have noted spies so it would stand that they must be in areas where his influence may not be what he wishes it to be. Stonefang seemingly still produces what he wants but Latria seems closed off now. It is quite odd though that his spies are faced within his own land, since that would not fit with their purpose.

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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Marino. on Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:59 am

    Welcome EpicNameBro ! Glad you joined our little Forum here happy

    Stonefang definately is still Producing what Allant wants since there are Fat Ministers watching over the Workers .

    The Spys seem to have failed since their corpses are inside a Cell, but yeah Tolvo is right .
    Why dont we encounter Spys in other Areas outside of Boletaria ? Did they all fail ?
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:22 am

    I'm not sure if he wants anything to do with the other areas.

    Overly religious skeletons with creatures flying in the skies are not easily controlled. Not to mention what would they even provide for him?

    The same goes for the Valley of Defilement, diseased weak creatures with poisons and plague babies.
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by ublug on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:53 am

    I assume the old monk re-took latria from allant's grasp after he returned from his exile.
    Lord rydyell talks about a fat minister holding the key to his cell (retainer to the king / ebony swine / gluttonous swaying belly), so we know allant once had his men there. We also know that rydyell have been dead a long time and imprisoned twice, since his soul and rotten body are found in two different cells. But why would a minister of the king imprison the soul of rydyell, who also goes under the nickname 'little allant'?


    Last edited by ublug on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Marino. on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:53 am

    Now that you mentioned that the Claws are ascociated with Boletarian Spies. Remember the Old Monk Boss fight ? The NPC uses Claws .
    Perhaps he is an Bolatarian Spy on the Mission to take the Old Monks power for Allant
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by ublug on Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:55 am

    Marino. wrote:Perhaps he is an Bolatarian Spy on the Mission to take the Old Monks power for Allant
    Even boletarian spies kills yurt silly
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Tolvo on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:00 am

    Perhaps just considering the nick name alone, the Old Monk may have wished for a form of revenge. To break someone he think is close to Allant. Whether there is a real tie between the two or not, just the idea of it alone could have caused the Monk to think he was important.
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 am

    Well, it is good to finally see Marcus on the forum... Hmmm - Demon's Souls lore eh? The fact that Latria seems to be a prison could insinuate that it was under Allant's power previously to the Old Monk... Possibly the 'King of Latria' was infact just one of Allant's high ranking supervisors who ended up possibly creating a mutiny hence killing all the secret spies (whom he would have known the location of) and when he had done that he was exiled from Latria and the Queen (his wife) became the supervisor - who else is better to have than someone with powerful magic? Possibly the exile was to the swamps of latria (where the gargoyles etc; are found) and that was where he found the Headwrap... He maybe had scavenged the claws from dead spies before his wife exiled him or perhaps she gave them to him to give him a chance to survive... The headwrap seems to give him a major power - possibly enough to transform the Fat Ministers of the Tower into Mindflayers?? Turn soldiers in the swampish area to gargoyles? Corrupt Latria as a whole - now Little Allant... He seems to have that nickname because of his power it seems (the fact that he allegedly went into the clouds to fetch the phosphorescent pole) Maybe he instead became the new supervisor and the vendor of Latria his mistress - that would explain why the Old Monk locked him up when he came back to latria and imprisoned his soul in a different cell (Eternal Torment). He locked the mistress (possibly his old wife idk) in the cell and created a Idol to rule the tower for him and become a religious farce that the hollows would worship. The maneaters I am unsure - they seem to be the Old Monk's final guardians, possibly they are a test that the headwrap has set to see if the hero is worthy enough to be possessed by the demon in the headwrap... I have only ever been summoned by the headwrap after having killed the Maneaters, idk...

    All speculation not much proof - would be best to disregard this.

    Anyway welcome to the forums Marcus - I am sure you will have a good time here when you have the opportunities winking


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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:46 am

    Coming into this topic my first thought was, it's EpicNamebro!

    But aside from that, it does seem plausible that Allant had some form of influence in Latria before the old monk returned. Weren't medieval communities typically trying to find means to gain access to each others' land?


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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Infighter on Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:25 am

    Probably Old Monk was spy himself, and disobeyed Allant's orders and wanted to take Latria for himself as kingdom (even if it's a prison). But he was banished for his treason, he found the golden wrap and got possessed by demon, and he conquered Latria for himself locked his wife and created Fool's Idol so dead could worship him and probably give him respect as normal people gave respect and worshiped Allant.

    (Probably 100% wrong but I like to speculate)
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:59 pm

    Infighter wrote:Probably Old Monk was spy himself, and disobeyed Allant's orders and wanted to take Latria for himself as kingdom (even if it's a prison). But he was banished for his treason, he found the golden wrap and got possessed by demon, and he conquered Latria for himself locked his wife and created Fool's Idol so dead could worship him and probably give him respect as normal people gave respect and worshiped Allant.

    (Probably 100% wrong but I like to speculate)

    SEE! THIS GUY HAS THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME winking


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    slightly off the theme of spys

    Post by xtrmntr1 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:08 pm

    but still latria related. (I posted this on one of your youtube vids, marcus)

    you were wondering in the latria vid who the statue was that shoots arrows... i was looking at it today and it has 4 arms and a bible-like book... all exactly like the doll demon. my guess is its her. dunno much about her but maybe she was worshipped as a priestess or deity judging by how the dreglings react to her. ... just my thoughts.


    Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the stained glass in that church where you fight her?

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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by ublug on Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:13 pm

    xtrmntr1 wrote:you were wondering in the latria vid who the statue was that shoots arrows... i was looking at it today and it has 4 arms and a bible-like book... all exactly like the doll demon. my guess is its her. dunno much about her but maybe she was worshipped as a priestess or deity judging by how the dreglings react to her.
    Soul Ray:
    Magic from the soul of the Demon Fool's Idol. Shoots off a light which pierces the target.
    The idol was in the form of the queen of now-lost Latria. This magic shows part of the power of the queen, who was also a gifted sorceress.
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    My Latria theory

    Post by Maiden'sFlamelurker on Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:28 pm

    I think that Rydell is actually Allant's little brother.The Once Royal Mistress is probably his wife. It's my theory that Rydell is related to the Wise Queen and her husband through marriage, Rydell's wife being the Wise Queen's sister. It seems to me that the Old Monk was banished for trying to revive the soul arts. Magic apparently exists in many forms apart from the the soul arts. The Old Monk wanted to make his family of magicians aka the Yormedaar family (from Silver Coronet description) more powerful and he was banished because of it. He and King Allant left together to free the Old One and when the Monk came back he militarily took over Latria. Rydell and his wife led the resistance against Old Monk but were defeated. King Allant likely sent spys to infiltrate the Prison of Hope in order to both spy on the Old Monk and learn about pockets of resistance within Latria. Eventually the Old Monk may have stopped caring about Allant's spies or maybe mistook them for actual prisoners and had them murdered or something like that. This ended the relationship between the two kings. But before that, King Allant gave over some of his Fat Officials to guard the prison. When they left, Old Monkey created the Octapus-headed guards, the Fool's Idol, the Maneaters and many other creatures to serve him.
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by DE5PA1R on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:48 pm

    Doesn't the singing lady sell everything you start with as a Royal except for clothing? If so, it's likely that she either killed her husband or at least looted his corpse.

    Somebody with more knowledge than me: is there significance there?


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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by xtrmntr1 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:05 pm

    ublug wrote:
    xtrmntr1 wrote:you were wondering in the latria vid who the statue was that shoots arrows... i was looking at it today and it has 4 arms and a bible-like book... all exactly like the doll demon. my guess is its her. dunno much about her but maybe she was worshipped as a priestess or deity judging by how the dreglings react to her.
    Soul Ray:
    Magic from the soul of the Demon Fool's Idol. Shoots off a light which pierces the target.
    The idol was in the form of the queen of now-lost Latria. This magic shows part of the power of the queen, who was also a gifted sorceress.

    nice catch bro!
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Ruta Barracuda on Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 am

    Regarding the Old Monk's back story, we learn a lot from the Once Royal Mistress:

    “The Queen banished her deprived old husband from the land. “
    “He returned in strange golden garb with foul Demons in tow. They pillaged great Latria, land of the learned, and locked us in this dungeon. “
    “Since then, they’ve been feeding off our souls… Telling us over and over that if we go above, we will be granted redemption.”

    So, the Old Monk was the Queen's husband, and he was banished. When he returned with the golden garb, he took vengeance on Latria. The Demon Souls Lore Compendium observes that the heart in 3-2 could be a way of artificially keeping the Old Monk alive.

    Personally, though, I believe that the Archdemon is not the Old Monk himself, but the "golden garb" that possesses him and gives him his power over Black Phantoms. Without the artificial heart to sustain him, and turning used up souls into abominations, the golden garb abandons him and joins unto the black phantom (player) that you fight in the boss fight. The fact that if the BP player wins he gets the Monk's Head Wrap further reinforces that the power is from the golden garb.

    The presence of Allant's royal spies is neat. Rydell's dialogue speaking of the fat minister is also kind of interesting - it's too bad he doesn't say whether or not it was the fat minister who had him imprisoned; I wish there were more clues to that. The fact that the fat minister isn't there anymore and the fact that the royal spies are dead reveals something really cool I never thought about - in Demon's Souls, there were only two accounts of archdemons coming back to lands with demons in tow. One is False Allant, and the other is the Old Monk. While it's obvious that the Old One is using them both, the missing fat minister and the dead royal spy shows that there was probably a rivalry between False Allant and the Old Monk. Chances are the Old Monk dispatched the fat ministers, prompting False Allant to send spies to see what was going on.
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:03 pm

    Isn't is just as likely that the spies were in place before everyone went crazy, when the Queen was still on the throne?


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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by Ruta Barracuda on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:48 pm

    DE5PA1R wrote:Isn't is just as likely that the spies were in place before everyone went crazy, when the Queen was still on the throne?

    That could be, but that wouldn't make sense to me. Outside of Boletaria castle, we see fat ministers in Stonefang Tunnel but no royal spies. Here we have a case where we know there used to be at least one fat minister, so wouldn't it make sense that if False Allant lost touch with his minister in Latria that he would send a spy to check things out?
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    Re: Allant's Spies in Latria

    Post by DE5PA1R on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:45 pm

    Ruta Barracuda wrote:That could be, but that wouldn't make sense to me. Outside of Boletaria castle, we see fat ministers in Stonefang Tunnel but no royal spies. Here we have a case where we know there used to be at least one fat minister, so wouldn't it make sense that if False Allant lost touch with his minister in Latria that he would send a spy to check things out?

    I figured the minister would be the one in charge of the spies. Also, I just registered that fat ministers must have been, you know, ministers... Considering the Fool's Idol was an idol who impersonated the Queen... were the ministers there to convert? Were the inhabitants of Latria pagans who worshiped their royalty? Perhaps this is the source of the Latria-Boletaria conflict; Allant, who wanted to siphon soul power through traditional methods (i.e. take the existing church and corrupt it) vs Latria, who wanted to siphon soul power by overthrowing the church.

    Just throwing around ideas; feel free to correct me if I've gotten something wrong. DeS isn't my forte.

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