Forest Disappointment

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    Forest Disappointment

    Post by soulreaverdan on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:17 pm

    I'm sure this is a long discussed and dead topic, so sorry if there's really not more to say. I'm just curious if anyone besides me is a bit bummed out by how the Forest Hunters turned out. It was something I'd forgotten about, pretty much, since some of my earliest playthroughs, and now that I've done a lot more playing and (I'd like to think) gotten better, I decided to give them another try. The idea of a PvP based covenant with a set invasion area is pretty cool, in my opinion, giving you a little risk of being human in the forest and not being part of the 'cult'. However, while there's a risk of 1v3, it seems more often than not 1v3 is the norm rather than the exception, and it gets really old really fast to get summoned to the forest and run into two white/gold phantoms in full Havel sets running at you, making it a bit less of "being dangerous to be human in the Forest" and a bit more "being dangerous to want to be a Forest Hunter". Not trying to say that it's unfair or wrong to be the Forest-Farmers, but just curious if anyone else besides me had high hopes for the covenant idea and then wound up just being disappointed. Or possibly just getting it off my chest. Either way.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:47 pm

    you loose nothing as a hunter its perfect you really test your skills


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:51 pm

    I wouldn't say its perfect, but you can always strive to be good enough that its dangerous to be in the forest because they might run into you. Thats what I do.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:56 pm

    hows it not perfect?


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:10 pm

    Being a Hunter is awesome, sure you lose a lot but one you get used to hose banks and don't tare it seriously you'll have more fun kicking ganker ***.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:14 pm

    The best pvpers are huters to be able to kill to on one on two or strategize and take your opponent down or just harvest souls because you can be summoned hollow and loose nothing upon death


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by vatar5 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:45 pm

    Still,I often get gang back stabbed fast when hunting...


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:48 pm

    Happens to the best of us. You really can't do much when you spawn and there's 3 guys casting twop and trying to bs you. I love it when I get away and kick their *** though.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:49 pm

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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by AzureCrow on Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:53 pm

    It would have been a nice touch if the Forest remained a permanent pvp zone even after Sif's death, especially since modern Alvina don't give 2 $#*Ts bout him. Also I had high hopes Hunters would be able to invade the sanctuary garden for some epic stone guardian vs ganker moments but no luck.

    You have to take the forest for what it is, reliable constant pvp at any level and that in itself is more than enough to make up for the gankers. Even 3 full havel's can't handle a 400+ player who knows what their doing. Praise the Sun


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:13 pm

    Lord of Ash wrote:The best pvpers are huters to be able to kill to on one on two or strategize and take your opponent down or just harvest souls because you can be summoned hollow and loose nothing upon death
    Anti-ganking, dueling and invading are all different skills, it is impossible to judge competence based on any one of them.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by OmniBot on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:28 pm

    I thought forest hosts were limited to one summon, as two slots are reserved for forest hunters. I think the only way to have two white/gold phantoms while ganking hunters is to summon them while in the forest hunter covenant and then kill the forest hunter NPCs.

    I don't remember invading a host with two phantoms as a forest hunter, but if you ever do just jump down to the basin and waste their time on the hydra lake ladder.

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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:44 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Lord of Ash wrote:The best pvpers are huters to be able to kill to on one on two or strategize and take your opponent down or just harvest souls because you can be summoned hollow and loose nothing upon death
    Anti-ganking, dueling and invading are all different skills, it is impossible to judge competence based on any one of them.



    yes you can in the forest you come across every fighting type and if you train and learn to combine different skills and moves to counter and kill then you become more competent at pvp


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by vatar5 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:45 pm

    @Omnibot I sometimes do that but hey,it's not gonna stop them so I usually troll them at the fog gate then BC.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:08 pm

    Sometimes I drop down then let them chase me and crystal out. I love the hotmail I get lol


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:16 pm

    Lord of Ash wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Lord of Ash wrote:The best pvpers are huters to be able to kill to on one on two or strategize and take your opponent down or just harvest souls because you can be summoned hollow and loose nothing upon death
    Anti-ganking, dueling and invading are all different skills, it is impossible to judge competence based on any one of them.


    yes you can in the forest you come across every fighting type and if you train and learn to combine different skills and moves to counter and kill then you become more competent at pvp
    You see every fighting type everywhere, and can learn all the same skills in those places as well. I'm all for being proud of what you do, but the blanket statement "forest hunters are the best pvpers" is ludicrous. I routinely sit solo in the forest and kill dozens of hunters in a row before they drop me.

    I've fought in the forest, I know what its like. Its almost exclusively anti-gank in my experience (and I have a lot). There are duels to be had sure, but they're the exception rather than the rule

    @omnibot The forest is no different than anywhere else in this reguard, the host may have 2 summons and 2 invaders at the same time.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Rudmed on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:46 pm

    I can't say the best pvpers are hunters, but I feel fighting ganks does help alot more in 1v1 situations. Simply due to the fact that we have to get creative in order to win and are forced to adapt to different gankers' styles.

    For example want to know how I won a 2v1 when being chased by two hard hitting yet very mobile gankers? I ran to the ladder got on it, and was about to slide down when....both the host and the phantom snapped around and ran off into the water because they couldn't get onto the ladder. Intentional? No, but funny and creative. Could it be adapted to 1v1 in some odd yet insane way? I think it could.

    Forest hunters aren't the best pvpers, I am one and I still lose, but I think we are taught new tricks to learn in 1v1's.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:54 pm

    So is everyone, everywhere.

    If one isn't getting creative to win tough fights, wether they're 1v1 or 1v40, they are likely harming their chances at victory by being predictable.

    "Every skill helps the others grow, but one cannot be accurately judged on any one alone" was my point.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:57 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Lord of Ash wrote:
    Forum Pirate wrote:
    Lord of Ash wrote:The best pvpers are huters to be able to kill to on one on two or strategize and take your opponent down or just harvest souls because you can be summoned hollow and loose nothing upon death
    Anti-ganking, dueling and invading are all different skills, it is impossible to judge competence based on any one of them.


    yes you can in the forest you come across every fighting type and if you train and learn to combine different skills and moves to counter and kill then you become more competent at pvp
    You see every fighting type everywhere, and can learn all the same skills in those places as well. I'm all for being proud of what you do, but the blanket statement "forest hunters are the best pvpers" is ludicrous. I routinely sit solo in the forest and kill dozens of hunters in a row before they drop me.

    I've fought in the forest, I know what its like. Its almost exclusively anti-gank in my experience (and I have a lot). There are duels to be had sure, but they're the exception rather than the rule

    @omnibot The forest is no different than anywhere else in this reguard, the host may have 2 summons and 2 invaders at the same time.

    I didnt say forest hunters where the best pvpers I said the best pvpers are hunters


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:05 pm

    My point stands. Keep your semantic arguements.

    I'm a dm, I consider myself a hunter. I specialise in invasions. The same skills that let me defeat multiple opponents hinder me in duels, I learned to count on overconfidence and surprise to strike at the host before the phantoms can react. People tend to be much more cautious in duels, which renders those skills useless and the time I spent honing them wasted.

    The opposite is true for the dedicated duelists, though they may stomp my face in a 1v1 if they had an ally I'm more likely to turn it around because they get confident, and so, predictable.


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Lord of Ash on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:06 pm

    wtf semantic arguments nobodies arguing chill out this is a forest thread so im making us shine


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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:10 pm

    I think it could be possible to say, good Forest Hunters are the most efficient killers. That doesn't mean they are the most skilled fighters. It would just be that on average they kill more people, since of course there are more people for them to kill with short wait times between invasions.

    Skill wise though, Fighting groups, duelists, and random invasions are completely different. While I'm a proud hunter I have to admit, most gankers are terrible players anyway. They offset quality with quantity. However it's not exactly hard to kill three guys mashing R1.

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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by lorenzo110 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:56 pm

    Yup I agree with Lord Ash. You will run into every type of build and skill set in the forest. From duelers to gankers to spell spammers. You name it you will see it all there. Now its not for the faint of heart to fight there. Period. If you have the mentality of winning winning and more winning and you have an aversion to losing you will not like the forest at all. It takes a particular kind of fighter who really doesnt care one way or another if he looses or wins to be part of the forest covenant. And also to just fight in the forest period. Its a challenge to every fighter and quite a few dont like to challenge themselves because they basically can only 1v1 and that is it. But if you dont give a fooch about your win loss record then you will totally love the forest. I do, and honestly it is the best pvp spot in the entire game bar none. I get more of a rush there then i ever did at the berg. Just my opin.
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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:10 pm

    I'd say the best PvP'ers are Forest Hunters...And DM's, and Dark Wraith, and Sunbro's, Dragons, basically every cov. The best people at fighting others in my book would be players who are masters of every aspect. As a hunter I am very good at killing people, while I do face duelists it isn't as common as would be seen in other areas. So my dueling skills fall back while my killing skills improve. A person who is a master of one skill set is a master yes, but there are masters of each form. The best are those who are masters of everything but I've met only few players like that.

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    Re: Forest Disappointment

    Post by lorenzo110 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:26 pm

    I guess everyone has their thoughts and experiance on this question about forest fighting, berg fighting, defending, invading, dueling, ect. I could only say from my own experiance from playing DS and DKS that a skilled player with knowledge of fighting from a background of vast experaince will not be a fish out of water whether he was dropped at the berg for 1v1 or invading in the forest. The real player can adapt to any and all aspects of PVP. Period. If a person is not able to it is more likely a fault on their part that they need to shore up. A skill they have not mastered or a style they are unable to adapt against while fighting. Success comes from combining both knowledge and skill with experiance to be able to recongnise your opponents abilities and defects to counter smoothly and effieciantly. As a great master fighter once said of fighting styles and their rigid systems....be like water my friend...be like water.

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