Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

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    Eliminate parry and backstab entirely?

    [ 9 ]
    15% [15%] 
    [ 52 ]
    85% [85%] 

    Total Votes: 61
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    Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:51 pm

    Answer the poll, and post your reason as well, but in order to keep it civil please limit yourself to one post and keep it your statement, not an argument or disagreement with a previous poster.



    I for one think the game would play more appropriately and hold difficulty longer for long time players if the parry and backstab animations were removed entirely.

    What say you?


    Last edited by BIG TIME MASTER on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:48 pm; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Nybbles on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:53 pm

    don't eliminate parries and backstabs, eliminate lag (or at least do whatever it takes to minimize it).
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:14 pm

    you would never ever ever ever win a 3v1 if you got rid of backstabs and parries.

    besides spell spamming


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by RedderAI on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:26 pm

    I for one say keep parrys and eliminate backstabs. Implement a something that restricts backstabs to only before the battle starts. I don't know or think its possible with the way the game is but I would greatly love it.

    @GluteBrah I've won a 3v1 without backstabs. It took a lot of dodging, AoE pyros, ONE lucky parry, and kick off a ledge and then a stumlocked host. It lasted a good 10+ minutes, it was also in sunny Anor Londo. I still remember that day quite merrily.


    EDIT: I voted no because it's fine as is but could be better with tweaking. Taking it out entirely? Not my favorite idea.
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by vatar5 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:31 pm

    I need my backstab against Iron Boar...


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Rarayn on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:34 pm

    I've been told that backstabs were apparently a lot harder to pull off in Demon's Souls. Rather than removing them entirely, perhaps a return to the old ways would be preferable?
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:35 pm

    Definately not. It's a mechanic of Dark Souls. If you don't like something as fundamental as backstabs and ripostes to the extent that you would prefer it removed from the game then play a different game.
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:36 pm

    No offense, but I think this is a horrible idea. :|

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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:40 pm

    I don't see a reason for them NOT to be in the game.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Tds on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:43 pm

    I think the best fix would be: you can only be backstabbed if you are using an item/flask or casting a spell. That would punish players appropriately and no one would cry fowl play. Being backstabbed in the middle of a fight is counter intuitive and infuriating if your opponent is dead angling you.

    Parries are harder to approach in terms of balancing.

    This is only for pvp. Pve is fine as is


    Last edited by Tds on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by RANT on Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:56 pm

    Tds wrote:I think the best fix would be: you can only be backstabbed if you are using an item/flask or casting a spell. That would punish players appropriately and no one would cry fowl play. Being backstabbed in the middle of a fight is counter intuitive and infuriating if your opponent is dead angling you.

    Parries are harder to approach in terms of balancing.

    This is only for pvp. Pve is fine as is

    that's actually a really good idea imo, it should be a counter, in my mind i see backstabs should work like the leo ring does.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Abiathar82 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:01 pm

    I voted yes to remove them , because of how Backstabs are used currently. I dont really have a problem with parries as parrying takes a little more skill. Backstab fishers just feed off lag and requires very little skill :x. You can generally win with just 2 BSs , it is way too overpowered and way way WAY!!! too overused. To me Backstab ruins PVP , as it is completely impractical in a real fight. I do not PVP a lot , but I have only been parried in maybe 10% of my fights probably less. Backstabs however are probably over 50%. I am sure most of you have the same experience as me. Backstab = Sh!+ simple as that , Overpowered/Overused and a weak way to win a fight.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Conrack on Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:19 pm

    My vote for no is based on how they are implemented in game, more often than not invaders have no intention of fighting you they would rather back stab you contiously until you die.

    My feelings on Backstabs: These should be restricted to one handed small to medium weapons as a means of fight; Tanks, Phalanxers, and people who cower behind the greatshield and hope to WotG you. Heavy weapons should NOT be able to use them against other players as 99% of them do high enough damage already, plus with the nerf to the greatsword swing speed they are more than fair.

    Parry and riposte: once again Medium and small weapons, but this is more versitile against a larger percentage of players because its more risk for more reward. though I dont feel that Ultra large greatswords should be parryable, regular greatsword should be but only with a medium shield, as a light shield would be preposterous.


    Last edited by Conrack on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Tomhet on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:46 pm

    Ridiculous idea if you ask me.
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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Reaperfan on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:55 pm

    If it was possible to eliminate lag, then I'd say it's fine as it is. However, lag is inherent to online games, and even if they are able to cut down on it, it will never be able to be removed completely because it just the nature of the beast.

    If I had to change anything, I'd say simply revert the backstab hitbox to what it was in Demon's Souls. To those who didn't play Demon's Souls, basically make it so that you have to be completely and perfectly square behind their back to pull it off, as opposed to the "I'm a little bit around their shoulder" hitbox that we have now. This would simply make backstabs less consistently doable, and so, less exploitable.

    Parries should stay the same, nothing wrong with them.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by WandererReece on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:58 pm

    I think it's fine the way it is. The only problem is chain BS. They should make it impossible to backstab during a "get up" animation. That should remove the problem.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:00 pm

    2 for 2 today reaper, I agree.



    It is impossible to bs during the get up animation, they cant bs you unless you interrupt it by hitting a button.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by passivefamiliar on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:21 pm

    Parry is fine. No question. If someone hits a parry they earned it. Backstab. Needs major tweaking. The "hitbox" to land a backstab is ridiculously huge.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by tinypantha on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:32 pm

    Maybe do the following:
    pierce weapons= BackStab
    Greatsword, and ultras= Cripple; causing the player to move slower for a small duration (immune to more Bs's)dmgclubs= More of a cripple (still immune) dmgDaggers= high Bleed hollow theif throat slit? (focuses on bleed more then dmg) dmgCurved Swords= Execution style backstab= dmgregular

    ALL OF THE ABOVE STILL DO DAMAGE BUT CRIPPLE BS DOES MINIMAL DMG equal to regular attack


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:13 pm

    tinypantha wrote:Maybe do the following:
    pierce weapons= BackStab
    Greatsword, and ultras= Cripple; causing the player to move slower for a small duration (immune to more Bs's)dmgclubs= More of a cripple (still immune) dmgDaggers= high Bleed hollow theif throat slit? (focuses on bleed more then dmg) dmgCurved Swords= Execution style backstab= dmgregular

    ALL OF THE ABOVE STILL DO DAMAGE BUT CRIPPLE BS DOES MINIMAL DMG equal to regular attack

    This has already been suggested before and I believe it merits further investigation. The problem, however, is that by implementing such changes you run the risk of fixing one problem but creating 2 more.

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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:19 pm

    or 9 or 13 or 37. As powerful as they are, no current cpu can replicate the actual intensity and range of choice of real hand to hand combat. Overcomplicating things could strain the system and create any number of glitches or lag exploits, not to mention the issue of balancing.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:22 pm

    No doubt. If it could be balanced/perfected it would be the way to go, no question. The problem, however, is could it ever be balanced? Shrug

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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:37 pm

    I'd accept ug weapons being unable to bs actually, (though even irl it could be done, just with a different animation) but only if they can't be parried.

    One can 0hko bs without a ug weapon, but it takes more focus and tends to cost base damage. Thats an acceptable trade imo.


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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Marino. on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm

    I like the Idea of Backstabs being a counter .

    It would makes more sense than it does now (really now, who just freezes in place and takes it?)

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    Re: Eliminate parry and backstab? FINISHED

    Post by Joichiro on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:45 pm

    Just eliminate the Bs, keep the parrys and put a damage bonus on the attacks that hit in the back.

    or eliminate the lag...

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