reim's Guide to Making Builds

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    reim0027
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    reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:45 pm

    So, I've seen a lot of threads recently about help with creating builds. I thought I'd share my knowledge; how I make builds. While I'm not the best at PvP, I do have a good understanding on stat points and making the builds.

    I'll put the individual topics in spoilers, so this doesn't look like a huge wall of text.

    *Note: this is how I make builds. Everyone has different methods, but all the concepts are the same.*

    Basics:


    • Dark Souls Build Planner
    • Dark Souls Armor Planner
    • If you want to know what the best weapon is, look in the mirror.
    • If a weapon has multiple upgrade paths, +15 will almost always be the most powerful (crystal is slightly more powerful) with the proper stats.
    • AR is misleading. You have to take defenses into account. Weapons that do multiple types of damage (physical, magic, fire, lightning, etc) go through 2 different damage reductions and are usually much weaker than their AR suggests.
    • Diminishing returns. There comes a point where putting extra points into a stat is virtually worthless. See below for details.
    • The absolute most important thing to do is maximize weapon damage. This should be easily done at 80+ without sacrificing much.
    • Do not try to be a jack of all trades, unless your SL is very high (200+ range).
    • Min/Max concept. Chose a couple things you want your build to be very powerful at. Then, sacrifice other things to allow you to reach it.
    • Know your playing style and focus your builds around that. Defensive, aggressive, spellsword, dodgy, meticulous, etc.
    • Pick 1 or 2 weapons and design your build around that.


    Vitality:


    • Not the most important stat.
    • Diminishing returns start at 40. It becomes worse at 45. At 50 and above, it is pathetic (400 total HP from 50 - 99).
    • The only reason to go above 50 is with a Vitality build, and you had better wear your FoFaP and MoM to compensate for the diminishing returns.
    • A decent HP to shoot for is 1500 (at SL 80-100+).
    • At lower levels, 30 vitality is plenty.


    Attunement:


    • At 16, you start to have diminishing returns. 16 should be plenty, unless you want to focus on spells/miracles/pyros. 23 should be an absolute max (the diminishing returns become oppressive). Only go above 23 if you want to be a pure spell caster, or have that be the main focus of your attacks.
    • Not much more here. Pretty simple stat.


    Endurance:


    • For most melee builds, one of the most important stats.
    • Shoot for 30 or 40, see below.
    • At 40, your stamina stops increasing. The only reason to go above 40 is equipment weight. Figure out exactly what your equipment weight is. And put your endurance so you hit it. Do not go any higher than that.
    • Most dex builds (excluding the Mura and +/- Great Scythe/Lifehunt), 30 endurance is plenty of stamina. For strength builds, you need to be at least 40. For caster builds, you don't need much endurance at all.


    Strength:


    • 40 is the number, and the number shall be 40. Never go above 40, unless your weapon requires that as a minimum stat. Then, don't go above that stat (50 for Havel's for example).
    • After 40, you barely get any AR increase.
    • Special note, when you 2 hand a weapon, 27 strength is the same damage output as 40. So, if you plan on mainly 2 handing a weapon (Great Club or Zwei for example), 27 Strength is perfect.


    Dexterity:


    • Again, 40 is the number, and the number shall be 40 (for the same reason as strength).
    • 45 dex will max out pell cast speed. There is only a small difference between 40 and 45. So, if you want spells to augment your melee, 40 Dex will be fine. If you want your focus to be spells, then go to 45.
    • There is no reason at all to go above 45, ever.



    resistance:

    Resistance is futile. Never increase it. It is worthless in PvP.

    Intelligence:


    • Basically, stop at 45. This will allow you the Crystal Spear and use Logan's at high power. There really is no need to go above unless you really want White Dragon Breath, or have 6 extra stat points laying around.
    • 32 Int is the minimum if you want to use Homing Crystal Soul Mass.
    • Plan your Intelligence around your Catalyst AR (similar to Strength and Dex for your weapon AR).
    • Catalyst Selection Guide
    • Never go above 50


    Faith:


    • Never go above 50 Faith.
    • Cutoffs are 30 Faith and 50 Faith. Between 30 and 50, there are diminishing returns, and those stats can be better placed elsewhere.
    • Again, plan your Faith points around your Talisman.
    • Talisman Selection Guide


    Ok, we've covered the basics. Now, here's a step-by-step planning guide.


    1. Pick your play style, and pick one play style. Power, speed, spells, spellsword, pyro, etc.
    2. Pick your desired Soul Level. Common ones are 20, 55, 75, 80, 100, 120, and 200.
    3. Pick your weapon(s)
    4. Pick your spells/miracles/pyros and put the appropriate numbers into attenuation. 12, 14, 16, 19, and 23 are the only numbers you will put here, unless you are a heavy spell caster.
    5. Go to Dark Souls Character Planner and max out your weapon. But, don't go above the stats I've listed above (pretty much, don't go over 40). This includes your spells as well.
    6. Pick your endurance, based on the stamina you want (40 for most cases, 30 for lighter faster weapons, base for pure spell casters).
    7. Pick your armor
    8. Adjust your endurance up until you get to the exact point to get the roll you want (fast, mid, fat, etc) and don't go one point above that.
    9. Dump the rest of your points into Vitality. Is it enough? If not, make some adjustments, but do sacrifice vitality for weapon power.


    Strongest build possible is 380:


    • Check it out There is not a build that is significantly stronger than this one. Going above is a complete waste of stats and you will barely gain anything.
    • This build can use any weapon in the game and the AR is essentially maxed out.


    TL;DR:


    • http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/
    • Vit: 30, 40, 45, 50
    • Att: 12, 14, 16, 19, 23
    • End: 30, 40, above 40 only for equip weight
    • Strngth: 27, 40
    • Dex: 40, 45
    • Faith: 30, 50
    • Int 32, 45



    Last edited by reim0027 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Knight Alundil on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:53 pm

    I click into this for 2 seconds and learn something new. I never knew the "Armor planner" Existed. Love.

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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by WyrmHero on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:42 pm

    Pretty much all that concerns making a build is covered here. +1


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:24 pm

    It's a good guide reim...

    buu-t I always get apprehensive over guides to making builds as it just encourages everyone to do the same thing rather than experiment a bit.. I don't think glass cannons are even mentioned here :|

    I guess what I'm saying is that you should strongly consider putting in something about different, interesting builds other than just the proverbial cookie cutter explained in plain english

    plus 1 though, if only for the armour calc, really didn't know that thing existed


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by FexDS on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:29 pm

    Nicely done Reim big grin

    I take guides as recipes. You start here, try once or twice, then add your own twist winking


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:29 pm

    I kind of agree, Serious. Also, "Attunement" is misspelled. winking

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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:31 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:I kind of agree, Serious. Also, "Attunement" is misspelled. winking

    Grammar Nazi'd Evil Fex

    Did you also know the word attunement is used completely in the wrong meaning? I guess englishese/japanglish strikes again.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:35 pm

    I always kind of thought they meant it in an almost sort of Taoist Zen meaning of attuned. Like you have to have your senses/spirit attuned to the natural/supernatural in order to be able to use spells. silly

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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Forum Pirate on Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:56 pm

    lol at "resistance is futile"


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by RANT on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:12 pm

    i would go 45 int, the extra damage you get from 44 to 45 is worth it, mugen only showed that going from 44 to 45 only gave you one point iirc but its 3(or more).


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:30 pm

    45 Int is only worth it if using Logan's Catalyst. TCC's mag adj scaling is low compared to Logan's.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:41 pm

    Yeah, this is a general guide for people to understand the basics. Once you understand the basic principles of how the stats work and how to maximize your damage, then you can make better "non-cookie cutter" builds.

    As for the Int stat, that is going to be heavily based on your Catalyst. 44 is a cutoff simply because of the Crystal Soul Spear.

    And, damn about the attunement. I'll go fix that.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by RANT on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:15 am

    That's actually exactly what I meant, players should aim for 45 int and use Logan's cat.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:10 am

    Got it. I'll add it in.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:15 pm

    I just noticed, http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/ now has an armor selector tab as well. Not as good as the other Armor Selector I linked, but still nice to have in the same place.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Forum Pirate on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:48 pm

    If one needs a guide to making builds, one probably shouldn't be making a glass cannon. Just saying.

    Just to affirm your efforts reim, this is almost exactly how I build. (sometimes in a slightly different order though)


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Rifter7 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:52 pm

    for strength you could say 14-16 for dex builds too.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Myztyrio on Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:40 pm

    Nice work, I especially liked the line "Resistance is futile." winking


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:11 pm

    Thanks, Myz.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by Demon Slayer on Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:55 pm

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=233186293427188053

    Reim you are the Best creating builds Proper Bow

    And thanks this help me a lot +1 you deserve it Sun


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by sjackson12 on Mon May 20, 2013 2:09 am

    I tried your steps to make a dual tracer build

    http://mmdks.com/2e6o
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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 20, 2013 2:25 am

    Stats look solid. Can't say too much about the armor. That is not my thing. I don't see any wasted stats at the SL.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by sjackson12 on Mon May 20, 2013 3:08 am

    reim0027 wrote:Stats look solid. Can't say too much about the armor. That is not my thing. I don't see any wasted stats at the SL.

    I wanted something with poise that I also liked the looks of
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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by reim0027 on Mon May 20, 2013 3:42 am

    Got it. Everyone has their preferences about armor.


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    Re: reim's Guide to Making Builds

    Post by sjackson12 on Mon May 20, 2013 4:20 pm

    A the same time, if there's something that can give me good poise that I can get earlier in the game that would be helpful. I'm not sure if I can get better than 20 without going overweight.

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