Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

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    PlasticandRage
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    Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:57 pm

    I only have one attunement slot for my tank in progress, and I'm thinking AoE. I don't plan on investing any more points for another slot, so Chaos Firestorm is off the table. So I'm trying to decide between normal Firestorm, GLSD, and GLGSD. The GLSD's do magic damage right? Or are they physical? So it's that vs. fire damage. I'm also aware that I get a damage boost if I raise my covenant level, but you get booted out of the covenant once you kill Nito don't you? I usually end up leaving my toons at the Kiln for PvP, so if I do in fact get booted out of the covenant the bonus will kind of be a non-issue. At least until the DLC glitches are fixed on PS3 for arena combat. I'm also not entirely sure whether an ascended pyro flame would outweigh the damage bonus for firestorm over the damage bonus of raising my covenant levels for the GLSD's.

    So what do you guys think? Any suggestions as to which would be better?

    Edit: Oh and I also don't plan on investing in faith or intelligence past my starting stats. So the GLSD's will be from either 8 INT or 10 FTH.


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by skarekrow13 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:03 pm

    You can kill Nito and stay in. Pyro though means you don't have to invest in faith either

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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:07 pm

    I wasn't entirely sure about that. So you think I'd probably be doing more damage with an ascended pyro flame over no faith and a cov bonus?


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by Nybbles on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:10 pm

    skarekrow13 wrote:You can kill Nito and stay in. Pyro though means you don't have to invest in faith either

    or in intelligence, GLGSD doesn't require faith and works just as well with Velka's Talisman

    GLGSD is a pretty cool spell, it has some neat tricks that Firestorm doesn't. it will cross gaps, has larger spread if you have the high ground etc. but i think it is also slower and does less damage.
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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:11 pm

    Usually my tactic with them is trying to use them in inclosed spaces, but that's still good to know. Will firestorm juggle the way the GLSD does? Like will each flame spout do individual damage?


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:14 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PwnasauresRex on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:12 pm

    If you are going to use firestorm, you might as well use fire tempest as it takes only one slot. As stated above, you wont get kicked from gravelord if you kill nito. You just can't level the rank anymore. And I think it acts the same way.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:16 pm

    Well if I'm going with GLSD I'd definitely try to max my covenant level before killing Nito. I'm sure if you stay in the covenant you keep your bonuses whether he's dead or not. Or deader. Good call. I completely forgot about Fire Tempest.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:37 pm

    Fire Tempest is better. Gravelord sword dance has the critical weakness of only hitting on the way up, and does not protect the caster while they are vulnerable- the caster is stuck in a casting animation while the swords are up and dealing no damage. It's really easy to punish with a little practice.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:08 pm

    Tempest hits considerably harder.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:44 pm

    So tempest will continue to do damage as long as your enemy continues touching one of the geysers? I dont think I've ever tried to do the whole tight space juggle thing with the flames before. I've definitely done it with the GLSD though. If it's possible with the flames then that's definitely what Im going with.

    Thanks for all the replies guys

    ^You're right. I just tried it. The pyro spells damage over and over again with he same geysers. I'd say that gives them the edge also.


    Last edited by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PwnasauresRex on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:39 pm

    It doesn't do continuous damage. The pillars only need to be touched to damage the opponent.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:41 pm

    The difference is each GLSD sword can only do damage while they're rising, while the flame geysers will continue to do damage while someone's making contact with them. Meaning you can damage an enemy with the same geyser more than once.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:47 pm

    Fire tempest does quite a bit more dmg vs 10fth,thorolund tali, and +3 gravelord status.
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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:04 pm

    This same problem happened to me with my present Strength build. Wasted 2 points in Faith to be able to use a tali (started as a pyro with 8 FTH) decided against the Gravelord GSdance and opted for pyros.

    Damned stoopid. Look Skyward

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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:08 pm

    Yeah I'm convinced. Im sticking with the fire. I don't even have Tempest yet. I'm still using Storm and it's already impressing me. It's no wonder I see so many invaders using it. Once I gain access to some higher poise armors I think it's going to be awesome for my tank

    Once I ascend my pyro flame its going to be even better too

    Should I just bite the bullet and go for two more attunement points for chaos you think? Is it noticeably more powerful than tempest?


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:09 am

    Tempest does more damage than Chaos firestorm, the only advantage to Chaos is the lava left behind, which may or may not hit the opponent. All of the chaos pyromancies do the same damage as ordinary pyros, the only advantage is the lava. Tempest also has a longer reach and more pillars. So it's easier to hit the opponent.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PwnasauresRex on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:10 am

    I don't know how powerful chaos storm with 10 humanity is. But if you do get an extra attunement, you could use fire storm and tempest for extra casts


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by User on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:19 am

    You do not have to invest in faith for the Gravelord Sword Dance; Get the Velka Talisman, and you can invest in Intelligence, as the Miracle requires no faith; Invest in only ten faith, and no scaling except for Gravelord Rank remains.

    At least one attunement is necessary for both. The Tempest and Storm require a full pyro and one attunement to function to maximum power; Gravelord Miracle just needs full Gravelord Rank (+3), Talisman Scaling Rank (Velka or Darkmoon, depending on Faith or Intelligence). Pyromancy has the upperside of Fire Damage, as well as requiring little to no ranking in level. However, Gravelord Sword Dance and Great Sword Dance can scale with both talisman and Gravelord Rank, which upgrades the regular by 30% when +3, and 20% for great miracle at +3 (supposedly it has been confirmed, and I have seen a slight difference). The Miracle does Magic Damage, although units are highly vulnerable to it unless they have thick armour, so it could be Physical... never understood if it was Magic or Physical.

    Still, I envy Nito and the Toxic Sword Dance he uses.
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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:55 am

    Yeah Im not entirely sure which it is either. I assumed it was magic damage, but either would make sense considering it has no faith requirement. I don't plan on increasing my INT or my FTH. So the GLSD would be from my base stat, which I think is 10 for FTH and 8 for INT. Or it could be other way around. I can't remember. I don't have it in front of me. I think I'm going with Tempest and ascended pyro flame. From the sound of all the info with the stats I'll have I think it's my best bet. The only thing Im really wondering at this point is whether or not the chaos will surpass the tempest in the damage department if I scale it with humanity. Even if it does a little less damage, if I'm casting it in an inclosed space the lava could make a huge difference. I think I have a toon with both. Im going to do a little testing I think.

    Edit: In the notes on the wiki it actually says chaos storm doesn't scale with humanity?

    Okay so I've just done some tests. Chaos Storm is more powerful than Fire Storm, but Tempest is more powerful than both. With a +10 Pyro Flame, on one of the ents in Darkroot, I did 520 with storm, 596 with Chaos, and 620 with Tempest. Also the wiki was correct. Chaos Storm doesn't seem to scale with humanity. Although because the geysers launch the enemies I've been trying it on it's hard to tell whether or not they're taking damage from the lava at all. So for all I know the lava, if touched directly, could possibly scale with humanity. It'd be hard to tell without having someone else to test it with.

    Also GLSD is doing significantly less damage. I only have GLSD to test with this toon, as opposed to testing both GLSD and GLGSD, but with Velka's Talisman, 50 INT, and the Crown of Dusk equipped, I only did 438 damage to the same enemy as with the fire spells. That's also without any Covenant buffs, but I'd say even with the covenant buffs, cast from a toon with base INT and FTH, I'd be tickling my enemies with GLSD in comparison to the pyro spells.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by User on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:32 am

    You need no requirements to use the spell; you require faith/intelligence for the talisman, however.

    IIRC, 10 is the number for Thorolund... or Canvas. Most likely Thorolund, as I think Canvas is 12.

    BTW... the damage of the Gravelord Sword will not be the same, IF you are not a gravelord. A bonus of -10% efficiency if you are not, if I remember... it increases when you rank up however in gravelord covenant.
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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:39 am

    I'm not talking about stat requirements, I'm talking about damage scaling. So if you get -10% damage for not being a GL, and +20% for being a +2 GL, that'd be +30% damage to the numbers I was getting. So what's 30% of 438?


    That'd be 569 damage if I was a GL +2. That's still not as high as the numbers I was getting with Tempest.

    I tried it with Velka's with 50 INT for 438 damage, then again with the DM talisman with 40 FTH and got 500 something I think, I didn't write it down so to be exact I'd have to do it again. But either way it still wouldn't be quite as high as Tempest's numbers, especially with base FTH or INT and a talisman with lower magic adjust.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:09 am

    I'm not sure about PVP, but the chaos does the exact same damage with 10 humanity when compared to the regular version (tested it with Whips and Fireballs).
    Also remember that you can use a Dragoncrest Ring + Dusk's Crown for added magic damage (works with pyromancies as well), while you only have Ring of the Sun's Firstborn to add damage to Faith miracles.


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:10 am

    And I did the testing with pyromancies last week, so with the latest patch and stuff


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by PlasticandRage on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:22 pm

    You can Dusk Crown and Bellowing DCR for increased pyro damage?


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    Re: Gravelord Sword Dance or Firestorm/Tempest?

    Post by WaffleGuy on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:48 pm

    PlasticandRage wrote:You can Dusk Crown and Bellowing DCR for increased pyro damage?

    Yep, and the results are quite impressive with an Ascended Pyro Glove


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