Races, and well Ciaran

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    Vitting

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    Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:47 pm

    I just came to thinking.
    The pygmy wants the world to go into the age of darkness with humans as the new rulers.
    What are all the other guys if not humans?

    Ciaran as example, the helm is hinting towards cyclops (and yes there's a big eye in the middle of it, but she calls us "Humans").

    Been searching for threads or posts about it, please re-direct me if I've been blind.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:15 pm

    She is of the same race as Artorias and Ornstien I would imagine. The mask decription only uses cyclopean as an adjectice to decscribe the mask itself not it wearer.


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Rarayn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:21 pm

    I find it sort of interesting that the face of Ornstein's helmet is roughly at the same height as the Dragon Head face. Could he perhaps secretly be both a Dragonslayer and a Dragonbro? silly

    Anyway, I'd wager the Knights have some sort of demigod status similar to the Silver Knights and Black Knights. They may appears physically human, but are beyond human themselves.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:39 pm

    The silver knights 'ought to be mere illusions. Considering the effects once hit and that they dissapear in twilight.

    Ciaran's mask does have two tiny eyes at the sides of the big one in the middle, so only the helm being cyclops would still be a bit off.
    I've been thinking that Artorias and Ornstein might be the same race, and I'm holding my thumbs praying that they made Ciaran and the Lords Blades into cyclops, sneaky cyclops.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Rarayn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:40 pm

    Vitting wrote:The silver knights 'ought to be mere illusions. Considering the effects once hit and that they dissapear in twilight.

    Ciaran's mask does have two tiny eyes at the sides of the big one in the middle, so only the helm being cyclops would still be a bit off.
    I've been thinking that Artorias and Ornstein might be the same race, and I'm holding my thumbs praying that they made Ciaran and the Lords Blades into cyclops, sneaky cyclops.
    Some of the Silver Knights disappear in Dark Anor Londo, but certainly not all or even most. I know that from painful experience.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Shkar on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:02 pm

    To the OP, it's likely that the Pygmy wishes no such thing. He had a burial, ehich is not something done for the losing enemies "god"


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:46 pm

    Shkar wrote:To the OP, it's likely that the Pygmy wishes no such thing. He had a burial, ehich is not something done for the losing enemies "god"

    He had a burial?
    From what I've heard he passed on the dark soul onto his descendants (i.e. us) and then vanished. Leaving us to make sure that the humans'd overthrow the gods and begin the age of darkness.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Buggy Virus on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:17 pm

    We don't know if the pygmy wanted anything, the only characters with any real agenda are the primordial serpents, and we don't know what it is.

    On the races, it seems there is a very human like race for the black, silver and other knights directly serving the gods.


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Raem on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:20 pm

    Buggy Virus wrote:We don't know if the pygmy wanted anything, the only characters with any real agenda are the primordial serpents, and we don't know what it is.

    On the races, it seems there is a very human like race for the black, silver and other knights directly serving the gods.

    I also think that the pygmy did not want anything. He found the 4th soul and shared it with his kin. This is all what we know. Everything is set in motion by the Primordial Serpents, which I think are the personifications of the Destrudo and will to controll everything, the dark side of all the life.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:37 pm

    Raem wrote:
    Buggy Virus wrote:We don't know if the pygmy wanted anything, the only characters with any real agenda are the primordial serpents, and we don't know what it is.

    On the races, it seems there is a very human like race for the black, silver and other knights directly serving the gods.

    I also think that the pygmy did not want anything. He found the 4th soul and shared it with his kin. This is all what we know. Everything is set in motion by the Primordial Serpents, which I think are the personifications of the Destrudo and will to controll everything, the dark side of all the life.


    The Furtive Pygmy
    The progenitor of the Player Character, the Pygmy discovered the unique Dark Soul amongst the other lords before fading into obscurity. Passing the soul down through his lineage, the Pygmy hoped that his descendants would extinguish the Age of Fire and usher the Age of Darkness, installing the humans as the new rulers of the world over the old Gods.


    Speculation has given rise to the theory that the Dark Soul found by the pygmy during the Age of Ancients was the source of all humanity. Just as Lord Gwyn demonstrated that the greatest souls can be broken into shards so to was the Dark Soul. Within the power of this soul was the basis for all humanity and life through humans. Darkstalker Kaathe would seemingly support this theory as his insistence on collecting humanities found in others could be construed as an attempt to recreate as much of the Dark Soul as possible for the eventual rise of the Dark Lord.


    Taken from dark souls wikispaces lore.
    I find it a more convincing theory than that he didn't want anything and got buried.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by The_Flail on Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:24 pm

    I actually think that human is used by Ciaran more as a synonym for mortal. My guess is that the Knights, except Gough who appears to be a Giant, are actually humans who through the same process that allowed Gwyn to gain his powers gained a small fragment of power themselves making them demigods.


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Icegodzilla on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:58 am

    The_Flail wrote:I actually think that human is used by Ciaran more as a synonym for mortal. My guess is that the Knights, except Gough who appears to be a Giant, are actually humans who through the same process that allowed Gwyn to gain his powers gained a small fragment of power themselves making them demigods.

    Yeah this makes perfect sense too me. I'm interested in where these giants come from I haven't read much on them also its kinda interesting how large The tower knights are
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:08 am

    Gwyn found a lord soul which is why he's immortal. It seems unlikely the 4 knights did that.
    Ciaran, Arty and Orn all seem likely to be silver knights who proved themselves exceptional. The silver knights are also unlikely to be human considering that there are non illusion ones in Anor Londo who have been there for centuries.


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by The_Flail on Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:33 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Gwyn found a lord soul which is why he's immortal. It seems unlikely the 4 knights did that.
    Ciaran, Arty and Orn all seem likely to be silver knights who proved themselves exceptional. The silver knights are also unlikely to be human considering that there are non illusion ones in Anor Londo who have been there for centuries.

    Sorry, I seems like what I wanted to say was kinda "lost in translation". What I meant to say was that to me it seems likely that Gwyn may have imbued his followers with a portion of his power.

    This may even explain the silver knights, they may have simply recieved a small portion while 3 of the 4 Knights have recieved a much larger part of Gwyns power, because they have proven themselves.

    They didn`t recieve enough to make them gods, but still enough to uplift them to a status above normal humans.


    Last edited by The_Flail on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:57 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Now with 30% more punctuation.)


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Raem on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:50 am

    Also in the intro it says one lordsoul was found by ,,Gwyn and his faithful knights." And not Gwyn found a lordsoul, And oh yeah, he had some soldiers with him.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Tomhet on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:44 am

    I've always wondered about this. It's rather strange because Ciaran calls you human and yet she calls Artorias a man ("the soul of the man who fell on the spot" or something similar). So I think they are indeed demigods.
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:13 am

    Tomhet wrote:I've always wondered about this. It's rather strange because Ciaran calls you human and yet she calls Artorias a man ("the soul of the man who fell on the spot" or something similar). So I think they are indeed demigods.

    Demigods for sure, considering all the power Gwyn seems to be tossing around on his servants.
    Pity tho, that we can't say if they once were humans or not. Shouldn't be human considering the whole Pygmy theories, but meh.
    Would just have been cool if they introduced her as a cyclops considering how cyclops tend to look (giant ogres with a massive club).


    Thanks for all the replies so far, makes me ever so happy to see people discuss. winking
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:46 pm

    It’s my honest opinion that all of the people we meet in game are in some form “human”. Let me explain. In the intro it says “from the Dark they came”, when we hear this we see what looks like hollow-like people standing up. Gwyn, Nito, the Witch, Pygmy, etc are included into this “they”. It’s also key to note when it says dark it puts it in caps in the intro and reads “the Dark”. If we read Artoria’s Armor description it helps clear up what this “Dark” is…

    Helm of Artorias: Helm of Artorias the Abysswalker, one of Gwyn’s four knights. The death of the helm’s owner can be surmised from the corrosive Dark of the Abyss, and the musty azure-blue tassel, once a symbol of pride and glory.

    The corrosive DARK of the abyss is the liquid-ooze like substance that’s all over Oolicile and we can see large masses of it just before we fight the chained prisoner… just take a look at the steps where the Dark Sorcerers were and look to the left and right of it. HUGE puddles of black liquid… Now another hint as to what this is… the Primordial Serpents… Primeval man… These 2 words are similar yet the word Primordial seems to insinuate something deeper…

    Dark ooze=Primordial soup

    Primordial Serpents are in fact a part of the Darkness (the lack of light not the ooze) and were the first to come out of the soup. The Gold Serpent Ring says they are “imperfect dragons” and are associated with greed, and when you attack Ciran what she says is extremely interesting.. “Humans… Always taking what you please” that sounds like she is associating humans with greed as well…

    Gwyn and others (primeval man) came from the same soup as well as humans meaning they are in some way humans that have been enhanced by the power of the souls they received from the First Flame. Going back to what Ciran says…. She calls us “humans” that doesn’t mean she isn’t herself one, but it does make sense that if she does have more “soul power” from hanging out with Gwyn and company that she would believe herself transcended from the term human, and would use it as a cut down even..

    In addition, the races are all in a way related including the Serpents. Hence why they have human-like faces.

    Just speculation here though let me know what you think .


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Vitting on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:13 pm

    Brilliant theory, at least in my opinion.

    Correct me if I'm wrong now.
    The everlasting dragons could be what dinosaurs are for us and the black soup is whatever we crawled out of?
    Magnus was one of the hollow-like dudes who didn't get to play with fire but still evolved? And he at some point after going into precious sleep with his pendant got disturbed by the citizens of Oolacile, got his pendant shattered and went bonkers through space and time?
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:43 pm

    Vitting wrote:Brilliant theory, at least in my opinion.

    Correct me if I'm wrong now.
    The everlasting dragons could be what dinosaurs are for us and the black soup is whatever we crawled out of?
    Magnus was one of the hollow-like dudes who didn't get to play with fire but still evolved? And he at some point after going into precious sleep with his pendant got disturbed by the citizens of Oolacile, got his pendant shattered and went bonkers through space and time?

    IF Manus is the Pygmy then it’s safe to say that over time he knew what the Dark Soul was capable of unleashing.. and tried to hide it. They say Manus’s humanity “went wild” and caused this big “Dark” explosion in Oolicile. That would mean that Manus (assuming he’s the Pygmy) is like the missing link. Just think about it this way too.. If you were to go back into time and touched the “Primordial soup” that all life came from, do you think you would retain your form (it'd be super hot so you'd prolly die first lol)? It seems that the “Dark” changes/mutates whomever it comes into contact with.

    The broken pendent is interesting as well. In the item description it specifically says it’s made of Stone. Like a Stone Arch Tree? Which by the way are known for their magical properties. Was he using the magical powers from the shard of an Arch Tree to keep the Dark Soul he possessed in check? Was the breaking of that pendent what caused his “humanity” to go wild? To add to this, it also says there is a vine which originates from Oolicile on this pendent.. Are the Oolicilians the direct decedents of Manus (the Pygmy)? Is this why he took Dusk? She was the last of his bloodline that wasn’t touched by the “Dark” he unleashed due to her being trapped in the plane of distortion?

    Interesting again “the Dark” didn’t show up until the First Flame, did the heat from the first flame cause this ooze to melt and create the Primordial soup? We know it needs a large amount of heat to be able to produce all life. To add to this… the Estus Flask… Aestus Estus in Latin means heat, and the flask bottles this “heat” to sustain the life force of the player character, and the Undead.

    Anyways thanks for reading my theory it is all just speculation though and relys on Manus being the Pygmy. Otherwise it's hard to explain his importance and how he got ahold of so much humanity. Feel free to poke holes and add =)


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by samster628 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:35 pm

    Methinks ill say my theory on manus (i think he is confirmed to be the pigmy play AoTA). Ignoring my huge theory on the dawn of change which can be found in other threads (probrably dead by now) here goes.
    Manus the pigmy claimed the dark soul from the first flame that at first was not at all powerful. Note how in the intro he lacks the power to change his form to "human". Anyways as the other souls lose enargy the dark soul gains power. Manus was now able to change his form and he gifted humanity (fragments of the dark soul) to other humans. Eventually he gained too much power to control. he used his stone pendant to focus his thoughts and keep sane and control the dark soul eventually managing to become in a dormant state of meditation. then the oolicilians dug him up and nicked his pendant. he went mad and the humanity consumed him and without a master the dark soul became ALIVE MOHAHAHAHAHAHAHahaha *ahem* anyway. Yes it and all its fragments became alive. the humanity inside people was not turned alive in most cases as it was protected by its vessels of flesh. the humanity in peopel that did come alive can escape. yes they are undead.
    Thats the simplyfied version. make of it as you will.


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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Rarayn on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:52 am

    I was having a look through the Dark Souls Design Works book again, and I noticed something odd. Dusk of Oolacile is drawn with elven ears, entirely separate from the Dusk Crown wings. Was Oolacile originally intended as a sort of land of the elves, perhaps?
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    Re: Races, and well Ciaran

    Post by Elite Knight on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:21 pm

    The theory that the knights of Gwyn are a higher form of human is quite an interesting one, and seems to be the most truthful. I support this with the fact that reviving at a bonfire prompts the message "You Revived To Human". Does this mean that Hollows are less than human? I'd assume yes.

    So, incidentally, it is quite possible that Ciaran and the rest are a type of human that have attained Ascension (seewhatIdidthere?) above normal humans, making them more than that.


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