Changes toward Dark souls

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    How much do you agree with me?

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    suvorovsorprana

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    Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by suvorovsorprana on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:33 am

    My own opinion toward Dark souls pvp and pve

    Parry: (not considering lag)
    HUGE TOPIC, i found parry in pvp has a huge profit than its lost, which unfair and led the pvp fighting kinda, roll and parry randomly battle lol
    a success in parry could led to huge DMG output 700+, especially hornet people...(no hate here, use what you want) while if you miss, it is consider a half blocked dmg range around 25-90 it gets. the risk is really low for a parry guy to miss than the guy got parried(not considering parry spammers here, so bs not included) so everyone is just hoping to land a parry rather than focus on breaking guards and etc (will discuss later)
    TO CHANGE IT, if the parry guy missed his parry, and get hit during the parry motion, he should actually get a 10~20+ percent in dmg intake, so the risk of using parry is higher rather a dumb half block. People will be more considerate of using the parry, and fighting will look better lol, so people could start using attacks to attack rather than make some fail. they come in and you parry them....
    ALSO, parry should not work on 2h heavy weapons!! wtf , your one hand with a shield could parry a 2h greataxe or sword and stun the guy, my sword should have just gone right through you like butter! to accommodate the "extra" advantage of greatweapon, greatweapon should have a decrease in swing speed.

    strength vs dex
    well dex has clearly more adv. than strength, especially for people who likes to use cast also(faster cast in 45 dex), strength seems to lack the edge than dex. that why dex weapons are GENERALLY more used by people, to make an edge on strength, weapon swing time should decrease, this means your swing or thrust takes shorter time to deliver the blow,bringing some advantage to strength, also increase shield stability, maybe not all shields thou, the small ones shouldnt count i guess , personal opinion

    Dark BEAD
    wtf!! how much dmg is this thing! fast cast speed with shotgun spread!? okay, wotg is powerful and aoe, but it doesnt even do half of dark bead damage, simply just decrease the dmg, like to 500 to 700(talking about like max stats with it and all beads hit) or increase the CAST TIME! one false swing in heavy weapon seems like imminent death!

    ARROWS
    poison go thru shield...... wtf, okay, maybe it makes it viable for bow in pvp, but maybe you can make manual aimming work on places like head or leg that the shield isnt blocking, for against tank with huge shield, the head of the tank should be a viable target, increase the dmg of headshot too

    Backstab!
    huge topic, roll bs, chain bs, lag bs
    we got it all....
    a temporary solution is to make SERVERS!!! so we have less lag
    for roll bs, people should actually get hit and stunned if they roll right towards you rather that invincible frame in rolling, this should stop roll bs, not really sure thou.. ideas are welcomed
    for chain bs, the guy that got bs shouldnt fall on the ground, he should get a normal hit with a bs dmg,
    bs needs a fix, but it will be hard...

    PVE

    more weapons moar!!
    make dual wields(same and different weapon) more viable, it seems shield are so attached to the game, it kinda makes me tired
    maybe make the attack of dual wield faster, but weaker dmg by a bit
    and have special combos, not slow combos, but fast ones
    Boss needs better intelligence in adopting the fighting environment, they change tactics,makes it more fun
    make refighting the boss viable, we could do it from the start menu, choose the character, choose which level of NG, can invites friend, and fight the boss again!! rather than playing the whole game again, no souls or stuffs will be given if the boss is killed again in this way

    binocular, come on, make it has greater depth in perception....

    after the game is finished once,in that save, we can pve with friends not by the fail summoning system, but directly together, (invasions wont work) this could be only done

    White invasion, since the summon is fail thing, keep showing summoning fail, and invasion is a fu ing success and easy
    a white invasion should be allowed, one human person invade with white orb(must be in a specific covenant) , invades a human host to help for a limited time, from 5-10 minute, within this time, the invader(helper) gets 1.5 more souls, (no estus)
    the human host could use some random stone, to block all white invasion if wanted

    blue orb and arena sucks :/

    happy hunting!! lol!

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by suvorovsorprana on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:38 am

    so how should a weak dex weapon like dagger beat a tank with 2h weapon with the changes that i made

    they still parry, just needs more skill, theres more risk too,
    in fighting, it is kinda the bigger weapon(broadsword) will beat a small weapon (dagger) in a fight, so the parry must be still used, but if 2h, i guess you have to firebombs or poison bombs and other consumables to be newly invented, small weapons users should focus on deceptive and other tools to kill a big fool, just like a ninja killing a samurai(ughh too much ninja/katana references, they arent even that cool..)


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by suvorovsorprana on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:38 am

    oh make firearms!! matchlock and flintlock guns ftw!1!
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:36 am

    fire arms would kill the souls series for me. as for daggers vs heavy armor, daggers are intended as back up weapons or assasination tools not weapons of mass carnage.
    really the changes i see fixing almost everything is to simply make defense experience incresing returns rather than decreasing ones (for example full giants negates around 44% of damage at around 450 defense, make it negate 50% and increase that by 2% every 10 defense added after that), thus a tanks armor would be useful for more than its poise value, in exchange for this tanks (over 50 weight of burden) take a 15% reduction in atk speed, but with your defense being more effective you can take that loss, i hope this made some sense but... well i ramble...


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by WandererReece on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:55 am

    Parrying already has great risk to the parrier. Str and dex are already pretty balanced. Dex swings faster and weighs less, but Str can stunlock and possibly one shot people. Dark Bead might do a lot of damage, but it's easily dodged.

    I'll admit, chain and lag BS are a problem sometimes, and should be worked on.

    A boss replay mode is an interesting idea, but I don't see how it could be integrated into the game. Also a white sign does the same thing, but less efficently. White invasions might seem like a good idea, but I'm betting lots of people would be annoyed by it.

    Guns? Seriously, what were you thinking?

    Also, the blue orb used to work a lot until patch 1.06, and summon signs used to be more frequent too.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:00 pm

    I wont comment on any of that. Mostly because it would take too long silly

    But giving him neg rep for suggesting something that you didn't like? That's a bit harsh to me. He was just saying what he wanted. And flintlocks/muskets would probably behave similarly to Xbows. So it's not like we don't have anything similar to that already.
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by GkMrBane on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:09 pm

    My responce is this guys video.

    Nuff said. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Onjhh4a2Kg


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    Move Like a Rapier Sting like a claymore http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=329792397855464820

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:14 pm

    I think this should go in the PvP section.

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Argetlam350 on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:19 pm

    There's some good stuff here though I only really agree with 30% of it (going by the polls choices). The big thing I have to say no to is your later post about guns. Guns should never touch the Souls series, if you want guns I would suggest Skyrim (mods and stuff for PC and quite a few that involve dwarven guns which are pretty neat).

    But guns for Souls games please leave those out, we have crossbows which are good enough to fill the spot if they widen the variety.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Rarayn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:23 pm

    Spurgun wrote:I wont comment on any of that. Mostly because it would take too long silly

    But giving him neg rep for suggesting something that you didn't like? That's a bit harsh to me. He was just saying what he wanted. And flintlocks/muskets would probably behave similarly to Xbows. So it's not like we don't have anything similar to that already.
    This is a From game. Guns would have at least a 50% chance of exploding in your face and blowing off your hands. silly

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:32 pm

    Rarayn wrote:
    This is a From game. Guns would have at least a 50% chance of exploding in your face and blowing off your hands. silly



    I just remembered something.
    There are firebombs and black firebombs in the game. Don't they use some sort of gunpowder? So they're not too far away from making flintlocks and muskets.
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Infighter on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:39 pm

    STR Vs Dex is tricky situation. If you overbuff STR weapons they will stunlock like hell or probably just 1 shot people, dex is balanced IMO. I don't want any gunpowder, musket ********. I want souls to stay medieval.
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:41 pm

    Spurgun wrote:
    Rarayn wrote:
    This is a From game. Guns would have at least a 50% chance of exploding in your face and blowing off your hands. silly



    I just remembered something.
    There are firebombs and black firebombs in the game. Don't they use some sort of gunpowder? So they're not too far away from making flintlocks and muskets.

    The firebombs in this game do NOT explode anything like even primitive gunpowder devices. They're likely just containers of flammable substance thrown while lit. That stuff predates gunpowder substantially. It's like a molotov **** :p.

    If those things used gunpowder, there would be an impressive explosion with concussive force. As others have said, gunpowder-based weapons don't really have a place in the souls games.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:44 pm

    Thanks for correcting me on that. I don't know much about gunpowder silly


    I don't want gunpowder in the souls games either. I just thought that giving him a neg rep for suggesting it was a bit harsh.

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Nybbles on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:50 pm

    the problem with dex vs str weapons isn't that they are unbalanced, it seems to me that the big strength weapons just aren't as intersting or stylish as the dexterity or quality weapons. i like what was said in another thread on strength weapons, they should have a third attack (L2?) when they are being two-handed (which is how they are intended to be used anyway) to add a greater range of versatility.

    the ultra weapons need more knock down/back attack animations that are actually effective and aren't slow as hell/easily avoidable. i think it's fair because you will have to close the distance to your opponent after such a huge attack, preventing a two or three hit combo of doom while being supper entertaining a tthe same time (never underestimate the fun factor).

    off-handing a dex weapon should be better that it currently is. the gold/silver tracer are a good example. this would make dual wielding a more interesting/viable play style.

    perhaps only daggers should retain an off-hand parry animation?

    parrying can stay as it is as far as i'm concerned, i don't run into parry fishers very often. infact the only time i do get parried is when i'm fighting against another player who is apparently psychic and throws a successful parry against my very first attack. in which case Prostration i'm not worthy Prostration

    backstabbing should be tightened up, the hit box needs to be improved for sure. i don't think there is anything that can correct for lag unfortunately. as for roll stabs, i don't like them when but i can't think of a way to correct them. chain stabbing has to go, add in some invincibility frames or immunity to back stabs during the wake up animation.

    poise and stun-lock should be tweaked. after your poise is broken, you should get a few frames of invincibility after the stagger animation to allow you to escape or defend. you will still take one or two extra hits while you're staggered (depending on the speed of the weapon) but you won't be stun-locked into oblivion. i think this would be a better fix to the stun-lock problem than simply slowing down the recovery speed of certain attack animation (claymore, why!).

    i would only go with dedicated servers for a souls game IF they weren't region locked and they would never shut down after a few years time. however i do think that they MUST improve the net coding and increase the lobby size of their PTP service.

    i actually wouldn't mind the addition of black powder firearms in a souls game, in a very limited way of course. they could function pretty much like crossbows but have low accuracy, really a high damage and a really slow rate of fire with a long reload animation. perhaps upgrading them would improve accuracy but not damage if they could be upgraded at all.

    the binoculars should actually be the spy glass from Demon's Souls and you should be able to attach it to a crossbow for limited sniping capability (without an aiming reticle?).
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Hatsune Miku on Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:56 pm

    suvorovsorprana wrote:oh make firearms!! matchlock and flintlock guns ftw!1!

    I disagree with that post. I only liked it, because it made me laugh.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by suvorovsorprana on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:27 am

    kay the firearms is just personal preference
    in my idea, is a gun could shoot once, then be disabled until you reload which will take like 5 times of a crossbow i guess, it will have horrible accuracy, and only good dmg, not like instant death, the most 400 to 500 dmg,neglect good amount of armor. it gives a sudden adrenaline which i would love and characteristic/playstyle that you are willing to give up one slot for a shot that might miss, also the bullet or whatever should go faster than arrow, but not real speed fast, just faster , and it also give a contrast of magic and technology that i will find very interesting

    of course, a lot of tweaking will be applied

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Marino. on Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:55 am

    Nerf DWGR ?

    Introduce OP Sorceries !


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Onion Knight on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:36 am

    Firearms? Ok time to bale out of this thread.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by tinypantha on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:30 pm

    Did i just read that Dex weapons are O.P? Go look at who uses them first. Now tell me that a Rapier is O.P against a 2h zweihander or in that matter a good claymore user. Now Before the patch a person could turtle to where it was too much. Also before the patch the claymore was one of the only weapons you couldnt break a stunlock with rolling (You could toggle out).

    Now after the patch I have found it difficult the roll out of any weapon stunlock no matter what weapon it is (Zwei,Clay, BKS, BKG). Turtling with Rapiers take up more stamina and etc. Now imo Heavy weapons if you get hit once without or with low poise you are screwed so that ruins "TruDex".

    Now to finish this un-organized Rant.

    TL;DR Dex weapons do low damage with high DPS more so than heavy, The Gold Tracer is O.P, Heavy weapon are 1 "hit" kills to low poise builds; Now consider this and tell me Dex is O.P again


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by suvorovsorprana on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:42 pm

    wow i guess many like many people really misunderstand what i trying to say, DEX IS NOT OP!! just saying it has an extra EDGE in CASTING SPELL, i never wrote anything OP mr/ms tinypantha

    FIREARM, gee its just one of the point, people are taking it so seriously... its not like machine guns and ****, just a flintlock gun

    turtling(hiding behind the shield poking forever, not just a few times) is for pve, turtling in pvp, you suck,

    dark bead can be dodge! but if you accidentaly get hit by it, it seems the dmg output to be too absurd, even wotg isnt half of its dmg, and you can roll away from wotg too, in case you argue wotg cant be dodge

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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Revoltage on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:56 pm

    I understand the point you're making with dex being tied to casting speed. I don't like that as well and I feel that casting speed should be relegated to a more appropriate stat such as attunement.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by WandererReece on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:08 pm

    Revoltage wrote:I understand the point you're making with dex being tied to casting speed. I don't like that as well and I feel that casting speed should be relegated to a more appropriate stat such as attunement.

    Comprehensive survey of dexterity's impact on sorcery casting speed

    I agree. I think it's strange that from did this, but the change is not that much. It's only 9% - 22% depending on the spell, and some don't even get a bonus.


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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by Infighter on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:03 pm

    tinypantha wrote:Did i just read that Dex weapons are O.P? Go look at who uses them first. Now tell me that a Rapier is O.P against a 2h zweihander or in that matter a good claymore user. Now Before the patch a person could turtle to where it was too much. Also before the patch the claymore was one of the only weapons you couldnt break a stunlock with rolling (You could toggle out).

    Now after the patch I have found it difficult the roll out of any weapon stunlock no matter what weapon it is (Zwei,Clay, BKS, BKG). Turtling with Rapiers take up more stamina and etc. Now imo Heavy weapons if you get hit once without or with low poise you are screwed so that ruins "TruDex".

    Now to finish this un-organized Rant.

    TL;DR Dex weapons do low damage with high DPS more so than heavy, The Gold Tracer is O.P, Heavy weapon are 1 "hit" kills to low poise builds; Now consider this and tell me Dex is O.P again

    Rapiers are useless without any buff,they just don't do any dmg. STR weapons are designed for "naked usage" (which means without any buffs added on,because your end or vit will suffer) As Dex weapon user you don't need much end.Take Falchion or Grt Scythe add Weapon Buff and they become OP as fck,


    Yesterday I fought Grt Scythe guy and he was winning most of the matches even without any weapon buffs while i was slow with DGA trying to survive
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    Re: Changes toward Dark souls

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:34 pm

    I saw you leave this post on gfaqs, i only somewhat agree with you. I think a lot of people don't realize just how difficult it is to balance a game, especially one with as complex mechanics as the souls series. I trust that the next souls game will be balanced more for pvp, while also introducing some new interesting mechanics.

    I know everyone keeps shooting down the guns thing, but i understand what you meant(at least i think i do). It "could" be cool. Like if it was just flintlock guns, and they were basically more powerful crossbows that took much longer to load. I could actually see a souls game based in an alternate 1600s style world being VERY cool. I can understand why not everyone would agree.



    EDIT: Also if you look at chester, he says he is from a different time(Same universe?). His clothing appears to be from around that time period. Maybe a hint that Fromsoft also might think that is a cool idea? He also uses a lot of items and techniques that the player can't, maybe these are possible things that could be introduced into the next game.

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