The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

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    The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:24 am

    Alright, this will get a bit long, but it's because I genuinely think I'm onto something here. I've been trying to figure this out for awhile now, & piecing together what I've found I think I may have come close. I also want to thank everyone here on the forums, as a lot of what I'm saying has come from theories on here that I have seen & pieced together. Like sunbro's 10 playthrough, 10 classes, faces etc. theory. I'd also like to thank Epic Name, Bro, on his excellent lore series, which helped a lot. Finally, if you see something that was part of your theory, but I did not name you, I thank you, & hope you do not try & think I'm taking credit for your discoveries & theories.

    The whole 10 classes, 10 playthroughs with different covenants thing holds up I think, but I believe there is more to it. I think you may have to role-play as different characters, I'm pretty sure Miyazaki even suggested that at one point. This is what I have so far, I don't know exactly who is who yet, & these are subject to change, as I believe as I'm playing through, who I will have to play as the other playthroughs will become obvious.
    You also have to offer an ember on NG+ to one of the braziers in Firelink Shrine. You go through the game once, get all the equipment you need through the role-play, level up your covenant to at least +2, then on NG+ the actual role-playing begins. You can kill the character you are roleplaying in NG+, as you technically are that character, & it is almost like killing a fake you.
    For all good covenants, you place the Lordvessal with Frampt, the evil with Kaathe, & neutral, you jump into Firelink on your own. As for linking the fire, I believe there are some exceptions. I believe Gravelords will link the fire, & that in Way of White you do not link it possibly, but since Cleric is last, I believe I will find the answer by that time.
    You also have to choose the right gift I believe, either that, or you choose none for all except the last one, which you choose the pendant. I have not decided yet, so I will not list them, but some choices are obvious, like giving the Old Witch's Ring to the Pyromancer.
    Also, I somewhat believe that each of these characters have a unique weapon that "belongs" to them. Oscar would get the Astoran Straight Sword, Pharis would get his bow etc. Some of these characters do not have one, so that could just be a dead end though. Either way, you would have to get all of their equipment to their highest level.

    Oscar(or Solaire)/Warrior/Warrior of Sunlight/Astora/Large Ember?/No Serpent/Link the Fire

    Could also be the Knight class, have not decided yet. I believe doing this playthrough will unlock all of his cut dialouge for the last playthrough, I'm not sure if the audio files are still in the game though, can someone help me on that?

    Seigmeyer/Knight/Princess Guard/Catarina/Divine Ember/Frampt/Link the Fire

    Dohmnall/Wanderer/Darkmoon Blade/Zena/Large Magic Ember?/Frampt/Link the Fire

    Not sure about this one, I believe there is another character in the game that is from Zena, but we are not told directly they are from there. Any clues would be a tremendous help.

    Lautrec/Theif/Darkwraith/Carim/Dark Ember/Kaathe/Walk Away

    This one's a bit tricky, you cannot personally kill the Anastacia, so if anyone has any idea who you would play through that's from Carim besides him or Oswald let me know.

    Shiva/Bandit/Gravelord/Far East/Large Fire?/Kaathe?/Walk Away?

    Now I know most people are saying that he should be in the Forest Hunters, but I believe you are supposed to betray them. In his lost dialouge, he does eventually betray them, once he gets the Chaos Blade. You may be able to be Forest Hunter that first playthough, but I believe on NG+ that you are Gravelord.
    Also, I believe he is possibly the one who killed Rhea. I read a theory on these boards awhile ago that made sense to me. They believed Petrus did not kill Rhea. They said he seemed to cowardly etc. & that Rhea did not have the pendant until she dies. They believe the murderer dropped it, & gave the Ivory Talisman to Petrus as proof that the deed was done.
    Forest Hunters can get the Pendant through PVP, & in his unused dialouge, he says he wants to test the Chaos Blade on someone. I believe you have to talk to Petrus once he starts hating Rhea, kill her, drop the pendant near her corpse, then drop the Ivory Talisman near Petrus.

    Pharis/Hunter/Forest Hunter/5 Finger Delta/Enchanted/No Serpent/Walk Away

    I think in this playthrough, after doing Shiva's playthrough, his unused dialouge & black eye orb might become available. He betrays the covenant, & as Pharis you have to take him down

    Quelana(possibly Laurentus, Salaman or Kirk)/Pyromancer/Chaos Servant/Great Swamp/Chaos Ember/No Serpent/Walk Away?

    I mainly think it's Quelana because of the Old Witch's Ring, her getting this gift in the beginning would make sense lore-wise, & then when Quelaan calls her sister, it would be true(Though I think she uses Quelaag by name, so it could be Salaman) Since she has no special weapons, I believe the Ascended Flame counts as hers. Also believe she might have to link the flame, as the reason all of her kin got deformed is an attempt to recreate the first flame, so maybe fulfilling her mother's wish?

    Logan?/Sorcerer/Dragon Path/Dragon Scholar/Crystal Ember/Kaathe?/Walk Away

    Leeroy?(Possibly Petrus or Rhea)/Cleric/Way of White/Thorolund/Large Divine Ember/Frampt/Link the Fire?

    Honestly, might be saying contradictory stuff here, but I also think Petrus might be innocent of even hiring Shiva to kill Rhea. Maybe he said some stuff that he did not mean, & Shiva took it as "Kill her", & he took her talisman in remorse almost, proof of his guilt & unintended crime. I believe that if all this stuff is true, I'll have figured it out by the last playthrough. Also, if stuff like Shiva's unused dialouge is used, that means I'm on the right track, & you possibly get the Elite Cleric Armor this playthrough, as a sort of confirmation that you have the right idea, & that you're supposed to play as Petrus. Could also let you advance in the covenant.

    Now, the final playthrough is a little tricky. I think I might have to play as Solaire, but I'm not 100% on this. I believe the designers would not intend to take the true spotlight from the player, & that since this is the playthrough you would find out the secret of the pendant, you can name him anything, as YOU are the true chosen undead, especially since you are to figure out the secret of the pendant. All the other player characters online would just be fakes, as you were the one who found the true ending. Oscar would also be in the first & second playthrough, doing what he was intended to do, be your foil, if you're with Frampt, he tries to stop you & become the Dark Lord, & vice-versa.

    Now first...the pandant. I believe that the false description was intended to be that. When Snuggly(could be Velka, which fits into this as you are trying to take down the gods for good & get the true ending) asks for warm & soft, I believe that you are supposed to give up your pendant, which with the false description has warm in it, & then the humanity which you just obtained from the first boss, as I can think of nothing else which could be "soft" besides humanity.

    Second, the Sword of Artorias. A japanese player said a certain weapon fully upgraded is the only way to open a door. I believe that as an deprived, you are supposed to make this an uber-character, upgrade all stats, & that with that, Artorias' sword becomes the best weapon in the game. I think there might be a keyhole of some sort, & that with his blade, you are meant to use the stab attack to unlock said door. Even if this isn't the weapon you are supposed to use though, I believe I've thought this through enough where I could figure it out if it's something similar with a different weapon.

    I believe you would have to have used all the covenants through 3 playthroughs. You would have to role-play each one though. First playthough, your main ending covenant is Darkmoon, as I believe that Gywndolin & Frampt are working together to continue the Age of Fire, & that that is not what Gywn even truly wants. This playthrough you may also use the Princess Guard & Chaos Servant Covenant. For all playthroughs you have a main covenant, & you can go one block away on the good/evil or chaotic/lawful line. In this playthrough, you would also make sure to save Solaire by getting chaos servant to +2, so he can help fight Gywn. I would dress as either a Silver Knight, or Black Knight during the final battle, not sure yet.
    Next playthrough is mainly Darkwraith. Either in this playthough, or the last, I believe you have to do a no bonfire playthrough, if it's this one, you have to get all bonfires to max the first run, but if it's the last, you have one more run to get them all to max. During the final battle, you are a Darkwraith.
    Fianlly, the last playthrough. You would be a sunbro, & that would also let you in the WoW & Gravelord covenants. Forest hunters also, though I think since they are true neutral, you may be able to start those during the other runs. You would have to offer the very large ember that playthrough. I'm leaning towards this playthrough being the no bonfire one, as I believe it would be the very last playthrough that you would kill the Everlasting Dragon, but time will tell. I don't know what else would happen obviously this playthrough, but I assume it'd blow my mortal mind if it was true haha.

    Anyway, I know that was long, & there's honestly a lot more to it, I've been diving into the lore more & more recently, & there's a lot more evidence to this, but I believe this post has been long enough & I've made my point. Any helpful hints, or even constructive criticism showing some holes are appreciated(Just don't be too much of an ***hole lol)

    Thank you, & good day.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:35 am

    Its a lot to read so before I really get into it just gonna ask you are aware the director said the pendant was a bit of a prank on his end?


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:32 am

    Yes, I read that. Honestly think he's pulling a double bluff. He said we had a little bit of an intention to pull a prank. I believe that the pendant is just so hard to figure out that he never expected anyone to find it. In a game like Dark Souls, it's about facing obscene challenges in order to find a deeper sense of accomplishment. When there's only 2 ending, where you're being manipulated no matter what, I believe the ultimate sense of accomplishment would be doing something no one thought possible. Finding your own ending, by putting together one of the hardest puzzles of all time. I think there's a reason he said he would never say what the pendant does, & then he just throws his whole ploy out the window? Nah. Miyazaki's smarter than that. I think it was to discourage the players who have no faith in the idea. & honestly, if it really is a ploy, then I'll just look at the pendant like the other people do. For memories. Either way, I'll have a hell of a time with this playthrough, & I'll be able to look on those memories semi-fondly(I'd still be a little pissed there was nothing haha).
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:45 am

    I think you're theory is the most ultimate form of Miyazaki's intended result to the prank. Most of his commentary within the DLC content was poking fun at all of us who've been so obsessed with finding the meaning of the pendent that it became WAY more than just solving a problem in a video game. I know I did my share of it, and I'm also well aware that the time I invested in it was nothing compared to the time some other people did. The whole plotline of Manus was pretty direct commentary about it. I have to say I think your theory, that Miyazaki is playing a double bluff, trying to detract people from finding the pendent's true meaning, is like pulling Miyazaki's prank on yourself. Let it go man. We don't have to have nightmares about it anymore. It's all over. We got to the chopper.


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:08 am

    I will quote you own avatar. "I Want to Believe"
    I honestly think you're probably right. The whole DLC thing could be commentary on that. Though I love this game too much to give up. I pretty much did everything you can in this world, but I still want to play it. If I just sit there & say that there's nothing else to this game, I've done it all, then it almost loses it's magic. I'm still going to try, because it just gives me another excuse to play, & without that magic of trying to accomplish the seemingly impossible, you almost lose the point of the game. I still think there's things in this game people have yet to figure out. & if I'm just part of the ultimate prank, then I'll laugh my *** off when I hit the punchline & there's nothing. But at least I'll have my time in this game. Honestly, for as long as I play this game, I'm going to try to figure out the pendant. Because otherwise I've finished it in every sense of the word.

    You get +1 for your very compelling argument though haha
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by sunbro on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:40 am

    Oh boy that's a big wall of text

    let me read it trough and I'll get you a proper answer


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:51 am

    I don't think there's anything wrong with obsessively trying to unravel secrets, I personally just can't help but feel relieved that that particular one is, I suppose arguably, over with. I, at least, don't have to worry about it anymore. There's all kinds of fun things to explore though. I noticed that you're relatively new to the forum. Have a look around. The lore section specifically has all kinds of neat stuff to unravel. Granted none of it is for in-game rewards, but you're clearly just as obsessed with this stuff as the rest of us. I'm not saying I don't think you should be trying to continue to solve the pendent. If that's continuing to keep the magic alive then by all means I think it's what you should do, especially considering that if you actually solved something it would be amazing.


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:02 am

    Oh I know. Don't worry, I know you were just trying to help me in a sense, not to waste countless hours on this. Going to do it anyway haha. I've been a lurker for awhile, read a lot. But now that I had this theory I thought it was genuinely worth posting. You should read it. I don't want this whole thread to be "It was a prank get over it". I read the interview on IGN & still choose to believe, so for the sake of argument, try to actually help me figure this out if you actually want to spend the time helping me solve this possibly non-existent secret. It's what Miyazaki would want.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by XKnightArtoriasX on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:36 am

    That is a nice theory and if you were correct specially about the unused dialog then you deserve a real medal, but please tell me that YOU will be doing all this and not wait for someone else to do it. Because i really want to know the results.


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:40 am

    Oh hell no. I want the satisfaction of doing it myself. I don't expect anyone else to do it. But I was kind of hoping for help from the lore community. There's still parts of this that haven't been fully figured out. I'm going to be looking up lore myself, in the time that I can, & trying to figure it out, but all help, even just something you noticed out of the ordinary, can help significantly. Like for example, I'm not 100% sure on which embers go to which character. I mean I'm not even sure on the characters yet. I started Oscar...but lately I've been getting the feeling he might be the knight, not warrior.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by XKnightArtoriasX on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:45 am

    Astardbay wrote:Oh hell no. I want the satisfaction of doing it myself. I don't expect anyone else to do it. But I was kind of hoping for help from the lore community. There's still parts of this that haven't been fully figured out. I'm going to be looking up lore myself, in the time that I can, & trying to figure it out, but all help, even just something you noticed out of the ordinary, can help significantly. Like for example, I'm not 100% sure on which embers go to which character. I mean I'm not even sure on the characters yet. I started Oscar...but lately I've been getting the feeling he might be the knight, not warrior.

    Hmmm... doesn't the armor or embers description help out with the characters lore?


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Tornesol on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:54 am

    This theory have been my alltime favorite. I support your commitment, I really do. I really hope you find something. Tho I have tried this a long time ago. Did the roleplaying. Tried to connect the dots. I mean.. 10 classes? 9 covenants? etc. Its bound to be something there. Or... From S didn´t even see it themselfs at the start when they made it. Just a trick we play on ourselfs, to find a meening to the pendant/secret in DaS. I am not saying here that I don´t think there is something to DaS we have not seen yet. I do belive that there is a hidden truth. Or atleast I hope so..

    keep going dude. I hope you find it winking


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by sinspaw on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:05 am

    Wow, that is one intricate theory. In a way, I'm with you in the sense of not really necessarily believing Miyazaki in that the pendant doesn't do anything, if only because he said more than once he would never reveal what it did. There's a tiny bit in me that thinks it could still do something.

    With all due respect though, I don't think your theory is it. Roleplaying characters as classes... doesn't seem like something they'd program for. And even if you were right, a tiny mistake would mean it would all go to waste, no? Plus what do you think is going to happen, you finish all the NG++'s with the roleplaying business and the pendant suddenly becomes usable? I don't know man, I don't want to discourage you, but I do feel like you should be exploring other ideas for this. The pendant is related to Gwyndolin, one way or the other. Roleplaying the **** out of the game won't make the pendant go into its final form.

    My biggest issue with believing the pendant is actually the fact that the game has been released on PC, and they have found certain miracles and audio that are in the game data but not implemented, but no dialogue or any special interaction related to the pendant. If it was there... it would've been found out through data mining, or at the very least, hinted at. Or who knows, maybe it unlocks something like this.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:20 am

    Yeah, I don't necessarily think that the pendant unlocks that miracle or the Elite Cleric Armor, but I believe I will unlock those things if I am on the right path. & how do you assume the pendant has to do with Gywndolin? I'm assuming it's because you get the Souvenir of Riprisal for it?

    As for the pendant's use, I'm not sure. I think the use will reveal itself throughout the entire ordeal. I'll get more & more into the lore, until it becomes obvious. I already have a few ideas though, something to do with the door in Firelink Shrine...

    Also, nice avatar, Archer's hilarious.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:29 am

    This one's a bit tricky, you cannot personally kill the Anastacia, so if
    anyone has any idea who you would play through that's from Carim
    besides him or Oswald let me know.
    Marvellous Chester. Would fit into the Thief slot better than Lautrec too.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:34 am

    I was thinking of that, I know he was in the art book, but he wasn't in the final game, so I don't think he would have anything to do with the pendant, unless they knew the whole time there would be DLC. Quite possible actually, I'll look into it more.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by sunbro on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:27 pm

    Well you do have a point here
    In my great search I tried a lot of different things, and with all the toon I did I tried to role play the character as much as possible
    Accept for the armor they ware and the weapons they carry I wore most of the time the same outfit for every toon, because of my play style
    In my seach I never noticed any thing different with the nine I completed accept for the pyromancer
    Laurentius known you are a pyromancer
    As for Griggs and Big Hat they don't even mention you're a great sorcerer,and Eingyi notices no eggs or egg but that's with every toon
    Also I curious about the embers it has always puzzled me that you have an option to give up or keep you're ember
    You can't give it to any blacksmith just to one ??? why that option if you lose them in a new game

    I.m now play my final and last toon as a deprived and this is also going to be my uber toon
    So I'm happy to test to Atrorias weapon theory for you

    GOOD LUCK !!!


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Shkar on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:19 am

    In regards to your theory, I do want to know why you assume two things.

    Why is the "true goal" to end the gods for good? Why don't you think Gwyn wants the age of Fire to continue?

    Aside from that, have fun with it. I see no reason that you shouldn't go through with it if you truly feel like it.


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:33 am

    I should have worded what I said better. I believe the true goal is kind of between ending the age of gods & starting the age of man, because both of those are options, & you kind of get used in both endings. As for Gywn, I believe he was truly a good leader, who sacrificed himself to link the flames because he thought it would lead to a better age for his people, but the results were much different than he expected...
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Shkar on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:37 am

    Astardbay wrote:I should have worded what I said better. I believe the true goal is kind of between ending the age of gods & starting the age of man, because both of those are options, & you kind of get used in both endings. As for Gywn, I believe he was truly a good leader, who sacrificed himself to link the flames because he thought it would lead to a better age for his people, but the results were much different than he expected...

    The first part makes more sense when worded that way. As for the second, I have to disagree with that from a lore perspective. The undead "curse" is relatively new, and its been 1000 years since Gwyn linked the flame. I think the plan worked perfectly; it just wasn't designed to be a final solution to the problem, more of a patch job.


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Raem on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:10 am

    Well, when he first mentioned the pendant he said, that from a ROLEPLAY perspective he would take nothing or the pendant. And this is the best from a reoleplay perspective. Imagine: You wake up with the Darksign and the Way of White breaks into your house, takes you from wife and family and you can take 1 thing with you into the prison where you will be until times end. You could take a key that unlocks every door except yours. You could take some bombs with you, but why? Yo could take some rings with you or a potion. Or binoculars but why, when all you will see is the walls of your prison? But then you can take a pendant with you, a worthless trinket but it will remind you everyday that you once had another life, something to fight for, something that will keep you sane.

    After all Dark Souls tells the story of the characters and not of some enchanted Silver Knight Sword of the Firstborn that you will maybe get trough the pendant.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:19 am

    Bravo.
    That makes a lot of sense...doesn't mean I'm going to stop. I'll just take it as a way to soften the blow if it's nothing haha. I'll still have fun with it from that perspective anyway.
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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by sunbro on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:42 am

    Just coming back on my former post

    If you can figure out the “other” use of the ember I think you win the battle

    But you talk about offering the embers to the braziers did you come up with a way to do it


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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by Astardbay on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:56 am

    Not sure yet. Tried a couple ways to get to them. There's a branch to the side you can't get on, tried a million times. But there is a message that says "Beware Hidden Path" if I remember correctly. Could be a player message though. If I have the right idea, then maybe just typing the character's name in right puts an invisible path there. Might take me awhile to get the lordvessal though. I had started Oscar, but I deleted it because I think he might be the knight. Either that or Solaire, problem is there can only be 1 Astoran.

    Edit:Either that, or you just have to beat the game with only that ember in your inventory.

    kountz

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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

    Post by kountz on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:42 am

    Miyazuki admitted his pendant comment was a prank in the following interview:
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/02/dark-souls-miyazaki-talks-artorias-of-the-abyss

    The pendant truly does nothing.

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    Re: The Pendant Theory to End All Pendant Theories

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