what is the story behind ash lake

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    Icegodzilla
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    what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:55 pm

    hey people i was wondering what the lore was behind ash lake, like how did the everlasting dragon survive the war, was ash lake the setting for the war etc. Im really interested in any facts about ash lake so if u know anything or have some theories about it let me know. O and side question I don't think the hydra is a dragon so how/ why is it there?
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:09 pm

    Ash lake is where the battle against the dragons was fought. You can see the dragon is "injured" implying it was either injured and fled, or didn't start as a dragon.
    There's also the interesting point that during the war ash lake wasnt a lake, it was dry.


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:38 am

    hmm interesting ty for the info


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Raem on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:25 am

    I think the Ash Lake is not only a lake but the surface of the world as it is the lowest point in the world of Lordran. Also you can see that there are many other trees in the distance and everything is shrouded in fog. This fits with the description of the Dark Souls intro of the world of Dragons. Also yeah this is where the gods fought the dragons.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:29 am

    Are there any theories on how it got flooded? and does that mean all those trees are holding up the world or at least part of it?


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by XKnightArtoriasX on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:50 am

    I think iv'e read something about the trees being a part of "bed of chaos" boss but not sure of the details, i'm interested in ash lake too and i so badly wanna kill that dragon if not found his immortality secret like the players did with Seath.


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:03 am

    The trees are the "stone archtrees" that came before the dragons. Seems to be a recurring theme or stone being synonomous with immortality, eternal stone archtrees/stone scales of immortality.

    Makes me wonder about the stone guardians in darkroot/oolacile, they're still around slumbering in the forest hundreds of years after the fall of Oolacile. Maybe the sorcerers of Oolacile were experimenting to emulate the immortality of the dragons.. dunno just spitballing i guess...
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by sinspaw on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:52 am

    Ash Lake is pretty much the only place that remains of what the world used to be in the Age of Dragons. Before the flame came.

    As far as I'm aware, the lake is nothing new, I'd go out on a limb and say the lake itself has been there for thousands of years.

    Furthermore, you can see into this... sublevel of the world if we can call it that, before you fight Nito. Specifically, before you enter the cavern that will lead to Nito, just look left, and you'll see the eternal lake and roots in the distance. I also don't think those roots belong to Bed of Chaos at all. Like I said, I'm pretty convinced that the world of the Dragons was pretty much that.

    One thing that bothers me is that I can't tell which is further below, Lost Izalith or Ash Lake. If Lost Izalith is further below, then where is it in the Ash Lake? Under 'water' ? Or is Ash Lake below all of it?
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by dalsio on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:38 am

    Yea, ash lake represents the world before the age of fire. The way you actually get to it is by going through an archtree descending into the lower levels of the world. The eternal dragon has been there since before the age of fire, and is 100% immortal, without the need for a special crystal like Seath the scaleless. Seath was a runt, and true immortality was impossible for him. However, the eternal dragon is not invincible, as proven by the fact that the great lords killed his kin. The Bed of Chaos is an archtree from the old world that was deformed by the witch's failed attempts to create a flame. Lost Izalith is just above the old world, with the boss fight of the bed of chaos taking place in the tops of one of the archtrees visible from ash lake, similar to how the archtree you descended into ash lake protrudes from the ground of blighttown.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:33 am

    dalsio wrote: The Bed of Chaos is an archtree from the old world that was deformed by the witch's failed attempts to create a flame. .

    Where is this mentioned? As far as I can tell from in-game information the bed of chaos is result of the witch of izalith's attempt to duplicate the first flame. It is a copy of the first flame gone wrong. The archtrees are not mentioned in relation to the bed of chaos as far as I know.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:11 pm

    I believe that the Ask Lake is inspired by the the part of the film set under the toxic jungle in Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Whenever I see it they look so similar.


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by RedderAI on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:21 am

    sinspaw wrote:Ash Lake is pretty much the only place that remains of what the world used to be in the Age of Dragons. Before the flame came.

    As far as I'm aware, the lake is nothing new, I'd go out on a limb and say the lake itself has been there for thousands of years.

    Furthermore, you can see into this... sublevel of the world if we can call it that, before you fight Nito. Specifically, before you enter the cavern that will lead to Nito, just look left, and you'll see the eternal lake and roots in the distance. I also don't think those roots belong to Bed of Chaos at all. Like I said, I'm pretty convinced that the world of the Dragons was pretty much that.

    One thing that bothers me is that I can't tell which is further below, Lost Izalith or Ash Lake. If Lost Izalith is further below, then where is it in the Ash Lake? Under 'water' ? Or is Ash Lake below all of it?

    You can see Lost Izalith in the earlier parts of the ToG. Then On the cliff where you get the effigy Sheild you can see ash lake. Pretty sure ash lake is the lowest levels of Lordran.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by dalsio on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:31 pm

    OrnsteinFanBoy wrote:Where is this mentioned?

    Hmm, I can't recall again who said it, which I really should bring quotes to back up my stuff, but I'm pretty sure it's said somewhere in some corner of the game that the Witch of Izalith, when she tried to recreate the first flame from a soul, did so near/around/in an archtree, and that the failed attempt deformed her and the archtree into the bed of chaos. Maybe I'm wrong, but that was my impression. Either way, the bed of chaos and the room you fight it in seems pretty archtree-esque to me.


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Icegodzilla on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:39 pm

    its does seem pretty tree like. It would make sense


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Raem on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:32 am

    Well since the whole Dark Souls world is on top of the archtrees it is not very surprising that she did it somewhere near an archtree. My impression was more like she became a new tree curropted by that little insect (evolved sunlight maggot?) nearby her roots.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by PlasticandRage on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:58 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Ash lake is where the battle against the dragons was fought. You can see the dragon is "injured" implying it was either injured and fled, or didn't start as a dragon.
    There's also the interesting point that during the war ash lake wasnt a lake, it was dry.

    The Everlasting Dragon is injured?


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by User on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:04 am

    Maybe we should get a picture of an everlasting dragon and the stone dragon in ash lake. Compare the two for people to see. You would be surprised the differences are.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:24 am

    "My mother, the Witch of Izalith, was one of the primeval Lords... Her power came from the soul that she found near the First Flame.... She focused this power to light a flame of her own, but she failed to control it. The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother and my sisters, and moulded them into deformed creatures. Only I escaped, and now I am here. But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since. I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos. "

    This is the only dialogue that talks about origin of the bed of chaos and it just seems like it was the chaos flame corrupting the witch of izalith and her daughters that created the bed of chaos. This seems especially liely to be the case since this is a request to destroy the bed of chaos. Destroying the bed of chaos and freeing the witch of izalith from her torment are synonomous.

    There is no mention archtrees here or anywhere else in any dialogue with any NPC. The only time I've seen the archtrees mentioned is the opening cutscene and the description for the demon great hammer.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:59 pm

    @ Acidic_Cook The dragon at Ash Lake is a descendant to the Everlasting (Stone) dragons, just like the Arch Trees we see are not true Stone Arch Trees and are just descendants of the ones that were destroyed in the dragon war. There are no more true Everlasting (Stone) Dragons or Stone Arch Trees, and this is why the dragon at Ash Lake looks so much different than a true everlasting dragon. . . My proof?

    Dragon Greatsword: This sword, one of the rare dragon weapons, came from the tail of the stone dragon of Ash Lake, descendant of the ancient dragons. Its great mystical power will be unleashed when wielded with two hands.

    Caduceus Round Shield: Round wooden shield crafted in Lordran. Decorated by an ancient blue Caduceus. The giant trees in Lordran are distant offspring of the great stone archtrees. This shield inherits their properties, and the wood greatly reduces magic damage.

    @OrnsteinFanBoy There is a little more information about the origin of the Bed of Chaos on the Lord Soul.

    Bed of Chaos Lord’s Soul: Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother of all demons. This Lord Soul was found at the dawn of the Age of Fire. The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the First Flame from a soul, but instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire. It’s power formed a bed of life which would become the source of all demons, and is more than enough to satiate the Lordvessel.

    This next part is my speculation and just the way I look at things from the item description. The item description above doesn’t prove it and can actually be interpreted in many different ways, however; from this item description this is how I see things. . . The Witch of Izalith is not the Bed of Chaos… She is the Bed of Life from which demons were born… Yes she’s that big distorted tree looking creature.. but.. not even that is the Bed of Chaos.. The Bed of Chaos is the bug we kill. . Why would they even mention a bed of life in the item description otherwise? Also, the life bar we see at the bottom is unmoving until we kill that bug, and that life bar says… Bed of Chaos. . From what I’ve seen in the game FromSoft loves to use the opposite’s (obviously lol) symbolism so it makes sense that if a bed of chaos was created by her screw up a bed of life was also created. . Continuing on, the bug is the Chaos Flame, the being of chaos and fire, when it dies it becomes a bonfire as well as kills the bed of life that came with it (the WoI)... It says she created this bug with A soul and when killed it drops the Lords Soul, meaning to me the bug is the physical manifestation of her Lord’s Soul. . .

    Feel free to disagree it’s pretty farfetched and I change my mind all the time =)


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by User on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:01 pm

    So is Gaping Dragon.

    And you are wrong. The Stone Archtrees? Look at the Asylum Demon and his weapon of arms. A shield comes from a descendant tree? Well, the hammer came from the greater.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:09 pm

    Acidic_Cook wrote:So is Gaping Dragon.

    And you are wrong. The Stone Archtrees? Look at the Asylum Demon and his weapon of arms. A shield comes from a descendant tree? Well, the hammer came from the greater.

    It came from a greater but it doesn't say they still exsist.. and the shield specificly says... The giant trees in Lordran are distant offspring of the great stone archtrees. However, you are correct that doesn't mean Stone Arch Trees don't exsist somewhere else. I've gotta remember Lordran isn't the entire world =)


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by User on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:18 pm

    Nah. Just a land of ancient lords... lots of worlds out there for ya to see.

    And trust me, I know the wooden shields well... I use the ones used by the skeletons. Whihc, if you look, are wrong; Skeletons are armed with the Axe Round Shield. One taken, they give you the Red and White instead. The Axe shield is purchased from the undead merchant. The unique one is the Green Shield, which is tied to the Blue Kite Shield as well.

    Remember, the Shield of Mercury's Twin Serpents are common in Lordran. Way of White and Hollows of the Archives have them. As well, the Twin Serpents are common by both ring and pit.

    Serpents are indeed related to the Undead... and are indeed the imperfect dragon. Thus thou look in the Tombs and see the Roof from what appears to be a land like Ash Lake? No water below, though... their is no ceiling, just pit black. Like the Abyss, in the way. Also looks down at the Demon Ruins too...

    Let me give you a hint: Find out what is the similarity between Dragon Body, the Demons of Chaos, the Great Trees, and the Knights of Gwyn. Not the Four Knights, although perhaps two. Rather, those that reflect the sun and fire.

    When you finish that, come back. You will find something interesting if you do look. If you need a reference, make sure to look at the Everlasting Dragons in the introduction (the entire video for a good reference). Last, but not least, count the skull of the lost world of ancients.

    After that, write what you have seen, and speculate.
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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:49 pm

    I’ll take a closer look at them tonight when I get home, but in the meantime the first thing I notice that’s similar is this… They are all related to animals. The Dragon in Ash Lake has a bird like beak which is different from the dragons in the intro. Also, each of the 4 knights are associated with some type of animal (wolf, hornet, hawk, lion). In addition to this, the Chaos demons were at one time animals as well… Qualagg with her spiderness, the Bull lesser tart demons and the goat lesser capra demons. Let’s not omit the Sanctuary Guardian which is a mixture (manticore) or many different animals (mostly lion). Which makes me think of the pictures on each side of the mother/child statue in the Undead Church. You know the one where we find the Firekeepers soul. It has 2 goats, a lion and a human holding an orb of some kind.



    Also, when you reference the Cadecus Kite Shield with the Twin Serpents being common in Lordran. When you look up the Caduceus (Wikipedia I know it’s not the greatest lol) there is an interesting section on…. Ningishzida the Messenger of the Earth Mother…. Heres a link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida) Long story short though it says that Ningiszida appears in Sumerian Mythology and is sometimes depicted as a serpent with a human head… Also, in Sumerian his name translates into “lord of the good tree”. He’s also deity of the underworld…..

    I’ll look deeper into your riddle tonight =) that’s just my initial thoughts.

    To not get this thread off topic….. It’s interesting that before we get to Ash Lake we pass thought “The Great Hollow” I think they use the word Hollow here on purpose to show the land of the ancients has itself gone “hollow”. In addition, and I’m sure this is obvious, but it’s Ash Lake due to the fact that during the Dragon Wars the Stone Arch Trees were burned to Ash, and from those ashes the descendants of those trees are rising.


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    Re: what is the story behind ash lake

    Post by User on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:42 pm

    Maybe... Maybe not. The world is not seen with so much water... And the water is not like the waters you see in game. Perhaps it is best to see it as... A flower in a watered vase.

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