Pure White possible?

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    Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:22 pm

    I went back to play and finally beat Demon's Souls. Well, World Tendency is really confusing me despite all the information I have read online regarding it. My character has already defeated every demon in the level where you can get the Bonesmasher in the boss area if you have PWWT. The world tendency is no longer Pure White (maybe it never was - I used to die a lot) and I didn't know to get the Bonesmasher back when I was playing before; but, now I want it. I'm in the same predicament with some key in Tower of Latria. Everything is beaten but it's no longer (if it ever was) PWWT. So... this:

    How do I get a world whose demon's are all dead back to PWWT?

    Can I even do this without going online to fight invaders I'm more than likely going to lose to?

    Is NG+ Kenobi my only hope for this character?

    Thank you in advance!!


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Emergence on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:24 pm

    NG+ is your only hope. Once all bosses are dead, you cannot raise tendency up to PWWT.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:26 pm

    It's crappy news. But thank you for delivering it.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Emergence on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:29 pm

    Sorry to be the one to break it to you. sad WT is a careful mechanic, so if you are going for the events and gear, plan out each world's gameplan before jumping in.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:35 pm

    No worries, lol.

    Over the weekend I started a new character because I had a bad feeling. Only got to where I'd killed the Red Dragon. Doing a lot better this time around. Hell, I don't think I ever found the timing/courage to riposte when I was playing before. DkS cured that.

    Swear though... WT really makes a playthrough feel like you're constantly walking on eggshells. I constantly have the feeling that I don't know half of what might be able to spoil my runthru. As if a Souls game needs any more paranoia...


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Walter_White on Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:43 pm

    don't go online or you will nearly never get PWWT
    and kill yourself in the nexus every time you have beaten a boss (yes you have to go through the hole game offline and hollow...with reduced HP and so on)

    **edit**
    if you also want all PBWT Events you should kill yourself in the World which was PWWT (and every PWWT event done) and you want to get PBWT. Make all PWWT and PBWT Events in a world in one run, without going back to the nexus, or the WT will change!
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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:09 pm

    I appreciate any info. Going through offline kinda sucks because of all
    the hints I don't get ... but I'm pretty used to being in soul form. Not
    exactly sure what you mean by:

    Walter_White wrote:Make all PWWT and PBWT Events in a world in one run, without going back to the nexus, or the WT will change!

    To get the PBWT events I can't go back to the Nexus after getting all the PWWT events? Sorry, WT is just so confusing.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by DMC on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:15 am

    I spend a lot of time sending PSN messages to people trying to explain how WT works. It seems like many of the players coming from Dark Souls or whatever are getting the wrong information somwehere.

    First of all Character Tendency has nothing to do with World Tendency. And it's CT that changes when you kill invaders (towards white) or when you invade and kill hosts (towards black). Apart from the online aspects of CT you can also move your CT towards white by killing certain Black Phantom NPCs (towards white) or by killing friendly NPCs (towards black). CT gets you the Friends Ring and the Foe's Ring among a couple of other items.

    World Tendency moves towards black when you die in body form and moves towards white when you kill bosses. That's it. But the starting point of the world's tendency EVERY TIME YOU LOG ON is determined by the actual server and it used to be always near enough to neutral. Nowadays on the EU servers it's actually easier to get PWWT as the server median is usually towards white when you log on. (For example last night I got PWWT in Stonefang after killing only the Armour Spider. I was playing co-op with a blue phantom. If I had died once it would not have been PW but I didn't. )

    The problem with a lot of players (not you OP, just saying in general) is that they are simply not good enough to beat the levels on their own. In Dark Souls a lot of guys basically beat the game in 3s. That renders a hard game pretty easy to be honest. I actually kinda like that in Demon Souls you have to play offline, solo and with less health and only one ring slot to ensure you get to do all the PWWT stuff. It proves you're a good player.

    But whatever about that. If you're careful you can still get PWWT online. Make sure the server median is at the very least neutral before you start, DON'T DIE in body form and don't log off until you kill two bosses in one world. That's actually easier than it sounds. Killing Phalanx and immediately killing Tower Knight without dying should be manageable if you're careful and let a blue phantom do the heavy work. He can die. Just not the host.

    Similarily in Stonefang just kill the Dragon God (not really a 'boss' fight per se) immediately after Flamelurker without logging off. As long as the server was at least neutral when you start 2-2 you'll get PWWT. Same with Latria - Old Monk right after Maneaters and Storm Beast right after Old Hero.

    If you have a good blue phantom with you this should be very doable. You can just cast warding and watch lol

    If you're not good enough to do this then you're probably not good enough to beat the game solo offline either.

    It's hard and there's no easy way around it.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by DMC on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:43 am

    Btw the WT will NOT change if you go back to the Nexus. That's completely incorrect.

    It's just that the icons showing your WT don't actually change to show the WT mchanges until you return to the Nexus. But's it's just the APPEARANCE of the icons. The WT WILL change if you kill a boss or die in body form. It just won't display this on the WT icons until you go to Nexus and back.

    Merely going back to the Nexus does nothing to actually affect your WT.

    In fact you will probably want/need to go back to the Nexus to suicide and get back to soul form afte rkilling bosses when doing the WT stuff offline. That's whay you see jumpers and bloodstains all around the nexus. This is to avoid the risk of dying in body form and undoing your hard work moving the worlds towards white.

    What you might want to do in one playthrough is getting pure white and pure black character tendency as it's hard to get from one extreme to the other by just killing BP NPCs. It takes 2 playthroughs at least.

    However if you have a friend to play online with it's really really easy. Just let him invade and kill him until you get white and then invade him and kill him until you get black.

    I haven't mentioned PBWT as that's really really easy to get. You just need a lot of Stones of E.E.

    This make any sense at all? :roll:


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Walter_White on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:07 am

    mhh - DMC have you played Demons Souls?

    Please don't explain things, if you don't know what you are talking about!

    1. WT Changes also when you kill NPCs!
    2. WT changes when you go back to Nexus. If you reach PWWT and go through the world in one run (withour returning to the nexus) you can make all PWWT Events in one run, the WT doesn't change. Same in PBWT, you can kill the Primeval Demon and the PBWT PB NPCs in one run if you don't go back to the Nexus (killing a primeval demons shifts towards white, the primeval demon appears one step before PBWT)

    WT and CT Effects stack.

    @OP: get the world PWWT and go through the world in one run (in one world there is a one way from a boss to the next chapter of the world - you have to plan this) making all PWWT Events. Killing the PWWT NPCs will make the world towards black when you return to the nexus. So after the PWWT run the world is already darker. Then kill yourself not in the Nexus, but in this world (after defeating a boss in another world you want to get PWWT) to get it PBWT.

    http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/world-tendency
    http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/character-tendency

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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by DMC on Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:48 am

    Walter White please don't be so sensitive lol!

    Maybe I just misunderstood your posts.

    As far as I'm aware the wikidot was not totally accurate regarding WT but was never corrected. If this is wrong, then fair enough.

    I think it's misleading to say that 'returning to the Nexus affects WT' as it almost NEVER does. But if there is that one exception you are referring to (sorry I can't really follow what you typed) then I stand corrected.

    Hopefully my posts will still be of use to the OP as I'm confident it's 95% correct 8)


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Walter_White on Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:20 am

    Hi,

    yes 95% is correct.

    With that i though you ment that killing NPCs doesn't affect WT:
    DMC wrote:
    World Tendency moves towards black when you die in body form and moves towards white when you kill bosses. That's it.

    But killing NCPs affects WT after returning to nexus. It also affects CT.

    Now to WT Change, when returning to Nexus:
    You are right only returning to Nexus does nothing to WT. BUT when you have done something in a World, that will affect WT this effect doesn't apply at once. This effect applies when you return to the Nexus. If you kill yourself several times in PWWT and kill the NPCs that appear in PWWT nothing happens to the WT in that World until you return to the Nexus.
    And there comes Item Burden - what i miss in Dark Souls. You also have to plan, what you get in such a run and if you can carry that.

    And its not so hard to beat the game completly in soul form offline. Yeah it felt harder than Dark Souls, but i am not sure if i feel this now when i play Demons Souls again.

    And watch out if you want all Events, don't kill every NPC at once, Selen Vinland for example gives you a quest in PWWT - so first speak with NPCs in PWWT - in PBWT just kill em - they wont talk with you ;-)
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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:07 pm

    Thanks... I am understanding more and more, lol. Thank you so much for the responses.

    I'm not very intimidated regarding the whole going through the game as a hollow with only one ring. Invaders kinda made me tend to do that anyway. Not really sure if I'm good enough to get through a whole world in one run, however. That sounds intense. Tbh, after a few failed attempts at the false king in Boletaria on my old character, I have no idea how one would beat the whole level without going back to the Nexus to level or something. I tend to bounce between the worlds starting areas gathering better equipment and inching my way forward in each. I hope that doesn't play against me when attempting for PWWT or PBWT.

    In my new playthru, I have Phalanx and the Red Dragon beaten but haven't fought the giant knight at the end of 1.2 in Boletaria. After defeating Phalanx I did get the PWWT events done in 1.1 (open gate near beginning). Last night I bounced over to Stonefang and killed the flame spider in 2.1 but as far as I know, there's no PWWT events up until I get to/passed the giant dragon boss. Think I'm going to attempt to beat that level tonight if I can farm up enough to get a piercing weapon upgraded cuz my falchion(I think) sux in Stonefang.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Reaperfan on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:26 pm

    To raise WT closer to White:
    -Kill a Boss
    -Kill a Black Phantom NPC or Invader (Black Phantom mobs that spawn at PBWT do not count toward this)
    -Kill a Primeval Demon (grants +3 towards tendency as opposed to +1)

    With all bosses dead you cannot attain PWWT. There are no bosses to kill, no areas that are open to invasions from other players, and the only way to access a Primeval Demon or NPC Black Phantom is to be at PBWT meaning that simply accessing them puts you too low for them to put you at PWWT. I realize all this has basically been said before, but it's been kinda spread out and unorganized, so I thought I'd simplify it a bit here winking

    My reccomendation is actually to play online. Fun fact, whenever you start up your game and load your character, it will reset all of your WTs closer to the "average" WT of everyone connected. Basically, quit and reload your game enough, and without doing anything else your WTs will all be set to White since more players tend to be killing bosses than dying in human form. Then all that's left is to kill one boss and you're at Pure White (unless the online average has changed to something besides White, it's been a while since I've used this method :|) It still requires a boss to kill though winking


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by DMC on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:45 am

    Actually just listen to Reaperfan, he's exlpained it clearest and in a nutshell happy

    The only thing I'd add about the server is that there's so few players on these days it seems that 2 or 3 others can drastically affect WT. For example I beat Maneaters and then Old Monk immediately afterwards last night having started from slightly white tendency in Latria but I was still one level short of PW.

    I noticed while moving through the area there were 2-3 ghosts fighting the Maneaters. I know this because I hung around for a while with my blue sign down but never got summoned by them. My guess is they kept dying in human form (they were dying a lot - I could see the ghosts falling) and this prevented me from gettin PWWT.

    But in general yeah it is easier to PWWT because a lot of players are just tearing through the levels for fun.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Walter_White on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:46 am

    Everynevers wrote:Not really sure if I'm good enough to get through a whole world in one run, however. That sounds intense. Tbh, after a few failed attempts at the false king in Boletaria on my old character, I have no idea how one would beat the whole level without going back to the Nexus to level or something. I tend to bounce between the worlds starting areas gathering better equipment and inching my way forward in each. I hope that doesn't play against me when attempting for PWWT or PBWT.
    You don't have to beat the bosses in one run. Beat all Bosses in one World -> PWWT when you go back to nexus (you can go after every boss or whenever you want to Nexus). Prepare yourself for the PWWT looting run (eyerything you don't need to Thomas so you don't get problems with Item Burden, get enough grass, spices and Arrows/Bolts). You can do the looting run alive in human form, it doesn't matter if you die now in the world as long you don't go back to nexus. The most worlds are better to do backwards, start at the archdemon and go down to the first chapter - this is easier in most worlds (but not possible in every world, i think after Gargoyle is a one way to the next chapter od the world).

    then get the world to PBWT and do the same, also in human form. If you die before making anything, that changes the WT to white you can go back to Nexus. It's also esier to achieve PBWT - simply die in human form, so here you are free to go everytime to nexus, because you will manage to get back to PBWT in this playthrough by suicide.
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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:59 pm

    I got Stonefang finished last night and got all the PWWT stuff done in the that world... worst part was actually re-farming to upgrade my Winged Spear. My Scimitar (not Falchion) sucked in there something fierce. Also went into Boletaria and killed that Tower Knight boss... so much easier than I remember. I used a ranged tactic last time... aside from DkS's Iron Gollem training me, I had no idea he had achilles heals, lol. Moving on to Latria tonight after advancing a bit more in Boletaria. I think I'm just going to get all worlds to PWWT before attempting to suicide their way into PBWT.

    All of your advice and discussion has helped out a great deal.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:10 pm

    Everynevers wrote:I got Stonefang finished last night and got all the PWWT stuff done in the that world... worst part was actually re-farming to upgrade my Winged Spear. My Scimitar (not Falchion) sucked in there something fierce. Also went into Boletaria and killed that Tower Knight boss... so much easier than I remember. I used a ranged tactic last time... aside from DkS's Iron Gollem training me, I had no idea he had achilles heals, lol. Moving on to Latria tonight after advancing a bit more in Boletaria. I think I'm just going to get all worlds to PWWT before attempting to suicide their way into PBWT.

    All of your advice and discussion has helped out a great deal.

    Quick heads up. Be sure to remember what I said about World Tendencies shifting towards the average upon loading the game, and keep in mind that this also will shift it downwards. If you attain PWWT in one world, then quit playing and reload later, the world you had gotten PWWT in will have shifted down towards White since that's closer to the average. Make sure to do anything you needed the PWWT for before quitting the game or else you may lose your chance.

    EDIT: Or just be sure to play offline until you've taken care of all your PWWT business.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:20 pm

    Okay... got another clarification question.

    If I killed an NPC like Miralda (Hey, man - she swung first) when I had Boletaria PWWT will that same NPC show up as a BP when I change the WT to PBWT. Or do I have wait until the next playthrough because her 'live' self was killed?


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:47 pm

    Black phantom NPCs will still appear even if you've already killed their body form NPC. So yes, BP Miralda will still appear winking


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:05 pm

    I thought certain events made the world PWWT, such as xmas. Did they stop doing that at some point?


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:35 pm

    Sweet!!! That's great news!! Thanks.

    TheMeInTeam wrote:I thought certain events made the world PWWT, such as xmas. Did they stop doing that at some point?

    I was wondering the same thing. I got on Atlus email list long ago but haven't heard anything about events in a while.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by DMC on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:10 pm

    I think they should do those WT events on the regular now. Like the first week of every month, alternating between PW and PB.

    I can't imagine it would cost much in terms of time or man power to manipulate the server settings (I'm pretty sure it could be automated in fact) and I think it would entice a lot of players back online to finish PW and PB tendency stuff which they never got to do the first time around.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Everynevers on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:02 pm

    It'd be nice but I just consider us lucky that they didn't shut the servers down.

    So... I've gotten all of the PWWT and PBWT events done, YAY!!! Pretty nice that killing all the BP NPCs gets your Character Tendency to pure white (at least it did for me). I was expecting that PWCT to be a major pain. PBCT only forces me to finally invade people which I've never done... guess it's time to hang up Mr. Nice Guy for a little while so I can get Mephistopheles to show up. All I want is the 'bad guy' ring, I think. Wonder if slaughtering all the NPC's (except Yulia) will get me to PBCT instead of having to invade people.


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    Re: Pure White possible?

    Post by Reaperfan on Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:04 am

    Everynevers wrote:It'd be nice but I just consider us lucky that they didn't shut the servers down.

    So... I've gotten all of the PWWT and PBWT events done, YAY!!! Pretty nice that killing all the BP NPCs gets your Character Tendency to pure white (at least it did for me). I was expecting that PWCT to be a major pain. PBCT only forces me to finally invade people which I've never done... guess it's time to hang up Mr. Nice Guy for a little while so I can get Mephistopheles to show up. All I want is the 'bad guy' ring, I think. Wonder if slaughtering all the NPC's (except Yulia) will get me to PBCT instead of having to invade people.

    Indeed it will. I would recommend just offing any merchants you don't need (so basically everyone except for the Filthy Man [and if you're a mage the Once-Royal Lady]). Another idea is that if you haven't rescued Freke or Urbain, you can off their disciples before rescuing them without Freke/Urbain turning on you, meaning you don't lose access to any Spells/Miracles.

    If you're already at PWCT that'll be alot of NPCs though lol!


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