Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

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    Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:31 am

    Hey guys, first off i know there's a final fantasy general discussion out there, but this is intended to be a much more focused thread, based around the story and characters of final fantasy VIII.

    As far as general concensus goes, VIII is not gonna be on everyones lists as the best especially due to what gets described by many as a 'random' or 'incoherent' story, though there are some like my bro, but I found an interesting little website the other day, the theory that squall for the majority of the story, is actually dead.

    If you guys haven't played the game yet, i urge you not to look at this, go buy and play it then come back.

    http://squallsdead.com/

    Before I read this, the story for me was pretty basic, guy is a loner then gradually becomes a leader and hero, oh and he gets the girl of course. It's a pretty open and shut storyline when discussed very generally, especially when you consider the main antagonist to almost have no reason for being in the plot.

    However, after reading this theory, to me things made more sense. The story stopped being something regular and became a masterpiece of writing. In my opinion, if this is true and square haven't yet refuted it, this would make the story one of the, if not the best for simply how clever and powerful the idea is.

    Please share your thoughts, not just about the theory but your ideas on characters and other plot points with significance etc. Want to know if this interested the FF faithful as much as it did myself happy


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:12 am

    Dammit now I'll have to finally try and finish the game so I can fully appreciate everything they said.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by vatar5 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:00 am

    Love the "Blue Fields" theme Sun


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by AnastaciaAstora on Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:02 pm

    I like that site and all but I much prefer the rinoa is ultemicia one. It's not 100% believable but it really adds to the plot line for me. There's no equivalent site, but you can search it on youtube and some explanation videos will come up.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by skarekrow13 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:42 pm

    That's an interesting concept. Might have to play this again. This was my favorite anyway but this puts a new spin on it

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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by SlakeMoth on Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:34 pm

    I never liked Rinoa. She was a nuisance, always getting kidnapped or falling off things. In fact that's about all I can remember about FFVIII. It's ages since I played it. Oh and the fact that I didn't care for Squall either because he seemed to whinge a lot. I seem to remember liking the bad guy best too.
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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by dancash1808 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:32 pm

    I had heard that theory before, put it down as pretty damn cool but didnt think it was likely. although 8 still hails from the era where the crazy dude was in charge if I remember rightly so who knows silly


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Marino. on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:15 pm

    What a read . Thanks for sharing Much big grin

    Now i have to actually finish the Game , i stopped at this one Battle where Riona (Rinona?) was stickied to an important Monster (Was it Ultimewhatsherface ? I dont remember >_<) and i could not beat it XD .
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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Serious_Much on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:59 pm

    AnastaciaAstora wrote:I like that site and all but I much prefer the rinoa is ultemicia one. It's not 100% believable but it really adds to the plot line for me. There's no equivalent site, but you can search it on youtube and some explanation videos will come up.

    I've seen that, it's the much more popular theory which also adds depth to the squall-rinoa romance and gives her a reason to be there, however it doesn't do much for the rest of what happens, it's simply 'sorceresses can do this crazy **** so get over it' kinda deal. It's also been officially refuted by square, which is why i don't really feel need to discuss it.

    It's an interesting theory, but the death of squall actually makes far more sense, to me at least.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by AnastaciaAstora on Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:16 am

    Serious_Much wrote:
    AnastaciaAstora wrote:I like that site and all but I much prefer the rinoa is ultemicia one. It's not 100% believable but it really adds to the plot line for me. There's no equivalent site, but you can search it on youtube and some explanation videos will come up.

    I've seen that, it's the much more popular theory which also adds depth to the squall-rinoa romance and gives her a reason to be there, however it doesn't do much for the rest of what happens, it's simply 'sorceresses can do this crazy **** so get over it' kinda deal. It's also been officially refuted by square, which is why i don't really feel need to discuss it.

    It's an interesting theory, but the death of squall actually makes far more sense, to me at least.

    I completely agree with this :,3

    To people saying they hate Rinoa: Play it in japanese if you can, the poor translation of her dialogue makes her sound like a spoiled toddler where the *** players love her because her "cuteness" came across properly.

    Also, Square, I apologise, but y'all can deal with it, because I like that theory and I refute you. So there.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:57 pm

    Haha, well sadly i'm not gonna play it in japanese though I didn't think she came across spoiled.. there was an essence of living a sheltered life and being a tad helpless but I thought she was a stronger, more interesting character. Though my favourite character of FFVIII has to be Laguna, he's just plain cool.

    I think the ultemecia thing was pretty interesting. It wasn't particularly far fetched either.. I guess I just wanna have some good reason why there's a witch in a flying castle by the end of disc 4


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by dancash1808 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:11 pm

    Because wibbly wobbbley timey wimey.
    also final fantasy. a series known for its gritty realism and tough dependable protagonists.

    (although in its defence gardens are basically flying castles lol.)


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Marino. on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:19 pm

    None of the other FFs had such a confusing ending .

    FF6 ended with the Death of the Villain
    FF7 had a pretty unsatisfying and odd ending (Whats the deal with Nanaki and those 2 puppies?) but made some sense
    FF9 was pretty much straightforward

    FF8s ending just stands out for being so odd and seemingly nonsensical ...this theory might be true
    Seriously just look at this nightmare ! (don't do it)

    Spoiler:
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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by AnastaciaAstora on Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:07 pm

    Marino. wrote:None of the other FFs had such a confusing ending .

    FF6 ended with the Death of the Villain
    FF7 had a pretty unsatisfying and odd ending (Whats the deal with Nanaki and those 2 puppies?) but made some sense
    FF9 was pretty much straightforward

    FF8s ending just stands out for being so odd and seemingly nonsensical ...this theory might be true
    Seriously just look at this nightmare ! (don't do it)

    Spoiler:


    JESUS, MARINO. DON'T JUST SPRING THAT ON ME.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by dancash1808 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:43 pm

    My copy of ff8 has a fatal crash just before the end so I havent played the conclusion sad


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by AnastaciaAstora on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:49 pm

    dancash1808 wrote:My copy of ff8 has a fatal crash just before the end so I havent played the conclusion sad

    That's actually a very very common bug, my copy did that during the cutscene where Balamb crashes into Galbadia. I borrowed a friend's copy to pass that section and accidentally on purpose gave the faulty disc back (it was deserved. and she'd never notice since hers was a show copy to impress the menfolk), but the weird thing is, when her sister played it, my disc worked just fine on her machine, despite me trying to use it in two different ones. Made me think something about the save files might corrupt it, since the only constant for me was the memory card I was using.

    tl;dr: Use someone's disc, you'll both be cool


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:03 pm

    Well you did it Serious. I started a new file for this just to see what I think of this ending silly


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Onion Knight on Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:44 pm

    Marino. wrote:None of the other FFs had such a confusing ending .

    FF6 ended with the Death of the Villain
    FF7 had a pretty unsatisfying and odd ending (Whats the deal with Nanaki and those 2 puppies?) but made some sense
    FF9 was pretty much straightforward

    FF8s ending just stands out for being so odd and seemingly nonsensical ...this theory might be true
    Seriously just look at this nightmare ! (don't do it)

    Spoiler:
    I thought Final Fantasy VII's end was wrapping up the whole nature versus technology theme in the game. As Nanaki gets up onto of that hilltop and looks down onto the ruins of Midgar ... now covered in trees and abundant in wildlife. I was uplifted to say the least.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Marino. on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:22 pm

    Onion Knight wrote:
    I thought Final Fantasy VII's end was wrapping up the whole nature versus technology theme in the game. As Nanaki gets up onto of that hilltop and looks down onto the ruins of Midgar ... now covered in trees and abundant in wildlife. I was uplifted to say the least.

    I agree .
    It was just odd to me when it said "500 Years later" which meant that all of the Main Character had Died (Except for Nanaki ofc) which leaved a bitter taste in my Mouth since i dont know what happened to them after the Ending .

    You know when you care about a Character, you want to know what becomes of them . Thats why i thought it was unsatisfying
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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:21 am

    Ok so I just finished disc one and, from a purely biological standpoint the ice didnt hit anywhere really dangerous. Maybe a collapsed lung and some shock but it looks like a pretty survival wound considering the sort of healing magic that exists.
    EDIT: Also Seifer's transition to bad guy feels fine to me. There's enough of him being a douche at the end of the first disc to make the second disc plausible.
    As for the lion things, no ideas on them yet.
    EDIT 2: NORG being a different race seems fine since its a whole tribe, not just a single one of him. As for Squall being appointed leader ... yea thats the first thing thats really struck me as odd. But at this point Im willing to put to it down to a generic main character thing.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Serious_Much on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:48 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:Ok so I just finished disc one and, from a purely biological standpoint the ice didnt hit anywhere really dangerous. Maybe a collapsed lung and some shock but it looks like a pretty survival wound considering the sort of healing magic that exists.
    EDIT: Also Seifer's transition to bad guy feels fine to me. There's enough of him being a douche at the end of the first disc to make the second disc plausible.
    As for the lion things, no ideas on them yet.
    EDIT 2: NORG being a different race seems fine since its a whole tribe, not just a single one of him. As for Squall being appointed leader ... yea thats the first thing thats really struck me as odd. But at this point Im willing to put to it down to a generic main character thing.

    Hmm, some good points dough. As I said, the theory isnt foolproof, but some of those points really do strike me as 'odd' to say the least.

    Seifer turning evil i agree had to happen anyways, he picked a side, it was the one against the protaganist, his progression is natural I think though still an 'ideal' situation for squall to come across.

    I think dough his wound wholly disappearing, and the fact he has no other injuries from his 100m plus fall is the strangest thing. He falls a critical difference, suffers a critical would from the ice as it would rupture so many vessels he'd die from blood loss.. I think arguing he could die from that is perfectly logical, though this is final fantasy with invincible protagonists so yeah.. guess this one's a draw lol!

    I think the whole NORG thing is ridiculous though. I always thought it was strange. No outside influence is ever mentioned beyond cid before and surely the master of the garden would have consequences.. Instead squall becomes leader as an inexperienced rookie.

    These points though are tenuous, but as the theory states the strangeness starts off slowly, for instance you didn't even blink an eye as the missles, but everything accelerates rapidly and the world becomes wholly interconnected and based around squall by the end of the game. He even glorifies griever, his little necklace as the worlds most badass GF for him to kill.

    Keep going an it'll unfold around squall, perfectly falling in his hand. No matter how much he complains and throws a strop about the situations he gets into, he gets his way eventually and that's exactly the point. winking


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:57 pm

    100m+ fall? The floats about a metre off the ground. Where does he fall 100m?

    On the point of Squall being interrogated. How would Edea know Quitis has been a SeeD lonegr than him? Squall was quite obviously the leader of the group who attacked her, marking him as someone who would be knowledgeable about SeeD. And I cant see Siefer turning down the chance to torture him after he beat him on the float lol.

    And yeah the way Im seeing it atm, is that each piece individually is circumstantial and easily refuted, its only when they all come together that they can be possible.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:11 pm

    The one thing I hated about VIII was the orphanage part. God it seems stupid.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:35 am

    Yeah, my mistake, been ages since i played the game and well it's sorta ambiguous when you just have this to go off ;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEnPM0nyc7A

    Also quite obviously being a former seeD member himself, seifer would have informed edea on who was the most knowledgable. To be fair though as with all the earlier points where things suddenly change, it's both subtle and explainable so can go unnoticed.

    Yeah, the orphanage thing is one of the real kickers for me too. Edea raised squall? his current friends are those he grew up with also? It's too.. perfect. That scene always struck me as extremely odd. Cute, but very odd. There were never any hints to it being the case, the plotline simply slaps you round the face with it almost since its so out of the blue. Again though, it CAN be explained with GF junction, but Zell's mother is almost overlooked to make the orphanage make sense.


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    Re: Final Fantasy VIII - Squall's... DEAD?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:36 pm

    At the same time, when Seifer interrogates you he mentions that "there must be something they give you when you become a SeeD" implying they think its something even the new recruits will know.


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