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    Criticals with buffs

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    Post by BrotherBob Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:47 am

    Veradox wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:The buff gives a flat damage increase to every hit.
    So a BS/riposte animation with more hits will get the most out of the buff.
    I'm not sure that buffs increase damage of each instance by a certain number. In this way it would be quite unbalanced, cause Hornet Ring alternative animation would not only cause 30% more damage (for the ring) but virtually +50% x (Damage granted by the buff) cuase of adding 1 extra "hit" to the animation.

    Like, assuming, you hit with 100 dmg riposte normally with your Rapier. Buffed with GMB you deal 200 DMG. No problems here.

    You get Hornet Ring. Now you normally deal 1st hit for 20 DMG + 2nd hit for 110 DMG. According to your idea, buffed Rapier will now do 120 + 210 DMG , instead of 70 + 160 DMG?

    I think buffs just add the +DMG to your ATK, and the final number is split between as many hits as you have.

    P.S. Tonight I'll put down some tests with Resins to test the idea. If someone makes it happen in least than 10 hours - post your results, so I don't waste my time winking
    I've actually tested this a bit. At 50 int and using the TCC, I increase AR by 410. Every time I do a Critical hit animation (backstab, riposte), I do an extra 250 damage every time I make contact. For example, a Man-Serpent Greatsword hits once in the backstab animation, so I do an extra 250 damage when I buff the weapon first. The Great Club, doing two hits, will add 2x250 damage when buffed. I would imagine that the Riposte of the Demon's Great Machete (since it does three hit animations iirc) would be an absolute beast, adding 3x250 damage.

    Edit: But this was pre-patch PvP, so someone might want to test it now.
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    Post by godpenguin Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:46 am

    I just tested it with another character.

    Uchigatana +15 and 40 dex
    CMW with TCC with 44 int

    Both of these were tested with hornet ring so the riposte hits twice.

    Without buff:

    1st atk - 133 dmg
    2nd atk - 1178 dmg

    With buff:

    1st atk - 413 dmg
    2nd atk - 1738 dmg

    Wow. I can't be sure, but this looks like that the buff not only applies the flat damage to each blow, but also BUFFS the buff damage done on the second attack. That is crazy.

    EDIT: With 44 int and crystalization catalyst, 280 magadjust x 1.4 = 392 magic AR increase.

    The increase on the first atk is around 280 extra damage: 71.4% of 392.
    Increase on second attack is 560 extra damage: 142.9% of 392.
    So the buff damage roughly evens out to 100-110% of 392 for each atk?
    Btw this was all done on the sorcerer in the forest on NG+.
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    Post by Veradox Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:03 am

    Geezzz... Now all my builds with no buffs look soooo underwhelmed happy At least they all are stylish happy
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    Post by BrotherBob Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:05 pm

    Thanks for the testing, godpenguin!
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    Post by godpenguin Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:22 pm

    I can see it now. My SLB strength toon is a OHKO build. big grin
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    Post by BackstabFisherman Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:36 am

    Once again, for the ones who say STR weapons aren't viable......
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    Post by Spurgun Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

    Str weapons are viable, but this isn't the reason to why. This is just a way to get OHK kills. It's just as easy with a HR, a buffed rapier and PW.
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    Post by godpenguin Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:29 pm

    But the difference is that I don't actually need any buffs to OHKO with riposte apart from hornet ring. How many toons have 2300+ hp? Even at 99 vit with RoFaP you get 2280 hp. I don't have to use PW so less risk is involved, and the buff is just there to ensure that opponents don't survive with like 10 hp. This doesn't gimp me if the buff runs out.
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    Post by godpenguin Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:27 pm

    My only gripe with the build is that I wasted points bumping dex to 18 because I thought I was going to use black knight weapons -_-.
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    Post by godpenguin Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:19 am

    50 str 30 faith

    A riposte with SLB on the Demon Great axe with canvas talisman, the damage is phenomenal. Tested on the forest cleric, first 2 blows did 1700 damage total, final blow damage did not register as cleric died before last blow.

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    Post by Veradox Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:52 am

    You test your Riposte damage on Ciaran, or Rikard. Or Gwyn happy

    ed: Or on a fellow DarkWraith big grin
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    Post by OrnsteinBro Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:18 am

    Spurgun wrote:Str weapons are viable, but this isn't the reason to why. This is just a way to get OHK kills. It's just as easy with a HR, a buffed rapier and PW.

    Rapiers are terrible weapons for getting OHKO kills. The backstabs themselves are easy enough to land, but good luck actually OHKOing anyone with a decent amount of vitality. Any smart ganker will simply stall you until your buff runs out.

    You'll certainly put a sizeable dent in their hp bar, but most often you won't OHKO unless you actually use a heavy weapon.
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    Post by godpenguin Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:49 am

    Unbuffed Demon greataxe +15 OHKO Ciaran. I should try it out on Gwyn.
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    Post by Spurgun Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:38 am

    OrnsteinBro wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:Str weapons are viable, but this isn't the reason to why. This is just a way to get OHK kills. It's just as easy with a HR, a buffed rapier and PW.

    Rapiers are terrible weapons for getting OHKO kills. The backstabs themselves are easy enough to land, but good luck actually OHKOing anyone with a decent amount of vitality. Any smart ganker will simply stall you until your buff runs out.

    You'll certainly put a sizeable dent in their hp bar, but most often you won't OHKO unless you actually use a heavy weapon.

    True. But rapiers also have fast normal attacks. If you miss one of the BS's with a UGW then you're pretty much dead in a gank. But the rapiers normal attack is very fast. And a running attack from a buffed PW rapier can be devastating. Often enough to kill them after the BS.
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    Post by PhlyingDutchman Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:08 pm

    Hey, I ran a bunch of tests and posted in the archives, and yes, the hornet ring boosts the damage of buffs (resins at least, and only against enemies that you get the special animation for):
    https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t15373-the-hornet-ring-boosts-resin-damage

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