Criticals with buffs

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    godpenguin
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    Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:18 am

    When you do a critical like a backstab or riposte with a weapon that hit more than once like clubs and axes, when buffed with CMW or SLB etc. does it apply the buff damage to every hit or just distribute it among the hits?

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Spurgun on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:12 am

    The buff gives a flat damage increase to every hit.
    So a BS/riposte animation with more hits will get the most out of the buff.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:34 pm

    Ok I really want to level my toon to 125 instead of 120 now for SLB -_-. Will leveling to 125 screw over pvp?

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BrotherBob on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:42 pm

    A slight increase shouldn't be too bad.


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:48 pm

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4479710416915883

    Please look past the 50 str, the build isn't purely a pvp build. Is the vit and end ok for this?

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BrotherBob on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:51 pm

    I'd put the Vitality down a bit to make room for more Endurance. The heavy weapons consume Stamina like a Pick-up Truck consumes fuel.


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BrotherBob on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:54 pm

    Also the Greataxe is not that great. Low reach and most of its moves are vertically oriented. Sure it can be buffed, but many others can too. For example, the Ultra Greatswords pack a huge punch and have a wide horizontal swing.


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:49 pm

    Ok. I guess a 40HP or so decrease isn't going to hurt a lot.
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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:08 am

    You could try the Demon's Greataxe if you want to lose some armor. It has longer reach and hits much harder. Now that greatswords can't stunlock as well, you don't need 53 poise- 31 is the new breakpoint.


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Veradox on Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:03 am

    Spurgun wrote:The buff gives a flat damage increase to every hit.
    So a BS/riposte animation with more hits will get the most out of the buff.
    I'm not sure that buffs increase damage of each instance by a certain number. In this way it would be quite unbalanced, cause Hornet Ring alternative animation would not only cause 30% more damage (for the ring) but virtually +50% x (Damage granted by the buff) cuase of adding 1 extra "hit" to the animation.

    Like, assuming, you hit with 100 dmg riposte normally with your Rapier. Buffed with GMB you deal 200 DMG. No problems here.

    You get Hornet Ring. Now you normally deal 1st hit for 20 DMG + 2nd hit for 110 DMG. According to your idea, buffed Rapier will now do 120 + 210 DMG , instead of 70 + 160 DMG?

    I think buffs just add the +DMG to your ATK, and the final number is split between as many hits as you have.

    P.S. Tonight I'll put down some tests with Resins to test the idea. If someone makes it happen in least than 10 hours - post your results, so I don't waste my time winking


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:33 am

    Holy Sh*t. Demon great axe +15 and hornets ring does like 2300 riposte dmg to light/moderate armored enemies. Can't imagine it being buffed.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Spurgun on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:39 am

    Veradox wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:The buff gives a flat damage increase to every hit.
    So a BS/riposte animation with more hits will get the most out of the buff.
    Spoiler:
    I'm not sure that buffs increase damage of each instance by a certain number. In this way it would be quite unbalanced, cause Hornet Ring alternative animation would not only cause 30% more damage (for the ring) but virtually +50% x (Damage granted by the buff) cuase of adding 1 extra "hit" to the animation.

    Like, assuming, you hit with 100 dmg riposte normally with your Rapier. Buffed with GMB you deal 200 DMG. No problems here.

    You get Hornet Ring. Now you normally deal 1st hit for 20 DMG + 2nd hit for 110 DMG. According to your idea, buffed Rapier will now do 120 + 210 DMG , instead of 70 + 160 DMG?

    I think buffs just add the +DMG to your ATK, and the final number is split between as many hits as you have.

    P.S. Tonight I'll put down some tests with Resins to test the idea. If someone makes it happen in least than 10 hours - post your results, so I don't waste my time winking

    I've tested this myself before and it's true, at least post patch.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:14 am

    Ah well, if it just splits the dmg among the attacks then I guess it's not important. Maybe I'll just stick to lvl 120.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Spurgun on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:17 am

    I just said the opposite silly
    If you have a riposte with 3 hits (UGW with HR)and a buff that adds 300 damage, then you get 900 more damage.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:08 pm

    Oh. Holy Crap.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BrotherBob on Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:47 am

    Veradox wrote:
    Spurgun wrote:The buff gives a flat damage increase to every hit.
    So a BS/riposte animation with more hits will get the most out of the buff.
    I'm not sure that buffs increase damage of each instance by a certain number. In this way it would be quite unbalanced, cause Hornet Ring alternative animation would not only cause 30% more damage (for the ring) but virtually +50% x (Damage granted by the buff) cuase of adding 1 extra "hit" to the animation.

    Like, assuming, you hit with 100 dmg riposte normally with your Rapier. Buffed with GMB you deal 200 DMG. No problems here.

    You get Hornet Ring. Now you normally deal 1st hit for 20 DMG + 2nd hit for 110 DMG. According to your idea, buffed Rapier will now do 120 + 210 DMG , instead of 70 + 160 DMG?

    I think buffs just add the +DMG to your ATK, and the final number is split between as many hits as you have.

    P.S. Tonight I'll put down some tests with Resins to test the idea. If someone makes it happen in least than 10 hours - post your results, so I don't waste my time winking
    I've actually tested this a bit. At 50 int and using the TCC, I increase AR by 410. Every time I do a Critical hit animation (backstab, riposte), I do an extra 250 damage every time I make contact. For example, a Man-Serpent Greatsword hits once in the backstab animation, so I do an extra 250 damage when I buff the weapon first. The Great Club, doing two hits, will add 2x250 damage when buffed. I would imagine that the Riposte of the Demon's Great Machete (since it does three hit animations iirc) would be an absolute beast, adding 3x250 damage.

    Edit: But this was pre-patch PvP, so someone might want to test it now.


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:46 am

    I just tested it with another character.

    Uchigatana +15 and 40 dex
    CMW with TCC with 44 int

    Both of these were tested with hornet ring so the riposte hits twice.

    Without buff:

    1st atk - 133 dmg
    2nd atk - 1178 dmg

    With buff:

    1st atk - 413 dmg
    2nd atk - 1738 dmg

    Wow. I can't be sure, but this looks like that the buff not only applies the flat damage to each blow, but also BUFFS the buff damage done on the second attack. That is crazy.

    EDIT: With 44 int and crystalization catalyst, 280 magadjust x 1.4 = 392 magic AR increase.

    The increase on the first atk is around 280 extra damage: 71.4% of 392.
    Increase on second attack is 560 extra damage: 142.9% of 392.
    So the buff damage roughly evens out to 100-110% of 392 for each atk?
    Btw this was all done on the sorcerer in the forest on NG+.
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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Veradox on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:03 am

    Geezzz... Now all my builds with no buffs look soooo underwhelmed happy At least they all are stylish happy


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BrotherBob on Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:05 pm

    Thanks for the testing, godpenguin!


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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:22 pm

    I can see it now. My SLB strength toon is a OHKO build. big grin
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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by BackstabFisherman on Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:36 am

    Once again, for the ones who say STR weapons aren't viable......

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by Spurgun on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:45 pm

    Str weapons are viable, but this isn't the reason to why. This is just a way to get OHK kills. It's just as easy with a HR, a buffed rapier and PW.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:29 pm

    But the difference is that I don't actually need any buffs to OHKO with riposte apart from hornet ring. How many toons have 2300+ hp? Even at 99 vit with RoFaP you get 2280 hp. I don't have to use PW so less risk is involved, and the buff is just there to ensure that opponents don't survive with like 10 hp. This doesn't gimp me if the buff runs out.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:27 pm

    My only gripe with the build is that I wasted points bumping dex to 18 because I thought I was going to use black knight weapons -_-.

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    Re: Criticals with buffs

    Post by godpenguin on Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:19 am

    50 str 30 faith

    A riposte with SLB on the Demon Great axe with canvas talisman, the damage is phenomenal. Tested on the forest cleric, first 2 blows did 1700 damage total, final blow damage did not register as cleric died before last blow.

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