Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

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    Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:38 am

    It's now widely known that the Painted World of Ariamis was originally planned to be the boss area for Gravelord Nito. There are still traces of links to Nito as well as many Velka references in the painted world. So are these references just residue from unused ideas? Probably. But I want to try and link them together and speculate a bit. I also want to speculate as to the links of the Way of the White (WoW) with Velka, and Velka with Gwyndolin. Also, I'd like to link Nito with the WoW as well as with Priscilla. Most of you will disagree with my speculation and that's fine, but all of my ideas come from hours of research and are not just off the top of my head. If you have evidence otherwise (interviews, item descrips, etc) please let me know what they are!

    So let's get this out of the way first. The power that Pinwhell stole from Nito was not the Rite of Kindling. Nito's power to raise the dead (skeletons) to do his bidding was taken. Therefore, Pinwheel stole the power of Necromancy. So why did Pinwheel steal this power... Let's reference the Effigy Shield.

    Effigy Shield:

    Frightful occult shield . Defends against Divine weapons and lightning.

    In an ill-fated plot to destory the very gods, the followers of the occult once attempted to steal the power of Gravelord Nito, the first of the dead.

    Now I know what you're going to say... "but death this item specifically says attempted to steal" and yes I understand that, however; it does not say they failed in this attempt either. The "ill-fated plot" refers to the plot to defeat the gods. We know that the plot to kill the gods with occult weapons was a bust... However, we also now they succeeded to steal some of Nito's power from the masks we find inthe Tomb of the Giants off of the Pinwheels.

    Mask of the Fatehr:

    One of the three masks of the Pinwheel, the necromancer who stole the power of the Gravelord, and reigns over the Catacombs.
    This mask, belonging to the valiant father, slightly raises equipment load.

    so with that out of the way... What's the deal with the masks? Well, we know that in the Painted World there are many items that reference Velka. If I'm not mistaken even Velka's Rapier deals occult damage. These masks that the necromancers wear are a symbol of their true alliance, by mocking the original family of the gods. The Father (Gywn), The Mother (Velka), and the Child (GoW). we get a further reference to this by the child's mask description.

    Mask of the Child:

    One of the three masks of the Pinwheel, the necromancer who stole the power of the Gravelord, and reigns over the Catacombs.

    This mask, belonging to the naive child, slightly raises stamina recovery speed.

    The "naive" child being a hint to the GoW who was stripped of his deific status. Another link to Velka being the mother is the nature of Gwyndolin. Intelligence is normally associated with sorcery in Dark Souls, however; Velka's Talisman makes it to where you use your intelligence to boost the power of your miracles instead of faith. Gywndolin is similar, but is the opposite. He casts his sorceries with the power of his faith instead of the power of his intelligence.

    Darkmoon Catalyst:

    Catalyst born from the soul of the Dark sun Gwyndolin, Darkmoon deity who watches over the abandoned city of Gods, Anor Londo. Gwyndolin is Gwyn's lastborn and a legitimate god, but he is also a Moon sorcerer, and this wand is boosted by faith, not intelligence.

    Velka's Talisman:

    Medium for casting miracles of the Gods. This black tuft of hair that serves as a talisman belongs to Velka, Goddess of Sin. It casts miracles not by drawing upon faith, but intelligence.

    How ironic that while gaining the high faith attunement from this father, he more so inherited the alignment of the Dark Moon from his mother. Another item description that helps show us that Velka is the mother is...

    Book of the Guilty:

    Online play item. Check list of indicted players. The Goddess of Sin Velka oversees this list of the guilty, who have disrespected the Gods or their covenants, and shall one day face the wrath of the Blades of the Darkmoon.

    Now I know a lot of you will argue that it says Velka and Blades of the Darkmoon in the same description because they changed the covenant at the last minute. But don't let that stop you from seeing what's right in front of us. Velka's punishment is dealt out by the Blades of the Darkmoon... That's her gang, her group of minions. With mom gone and no one else to pick up where she left off, of course the Dark Sun picked it up and continued his mother's work. In addition, many of Velka's items have the word mystical in the description, this is very similar to many of the moonlight items.

    I believe she is called a "rouge deity" due to the nature of why she was removed from her position and all traces of her being the mother of Gwyns children removed from the annals. This is due to an almost completely untold story of her clashes with h er Uncle-in-law AllFather Loyd. The nature of the WoW is fairly simple. They are upholding the age of fire at all costs, and selling it as a religious crusade. Let's look at the definition of Occult really fast.

    Occult: of or pertaining to magic, astrology, or any system claiming use or knowledge of secret or supernatural powers or agencies.

    that sounds like Velka to me... and even more so I'm seeing a similar battle that happens in the real world.... Science and Religion.... To add to this notice that on the pathway to upgrading your occult weapons you must first have a divine weapon to +5... So like any religion, once you learn the truth about it's intentions and realize the dogma of it all, you begin to look at other venues to explain the happenings of the world. This could make you a heretic or even make someone call you a worshiper of the occult. We know that not all of the clerics from the WoW were mindless sheep who accepted the dogma given to them by the AllFather from the Holy Set description.

    Holy Robe:

    Robe donned by the men of the cloth. Though plain to the eye, its hardy fabric repels rain and keeps the body warm. Those dissatisfied with church teachings must test their faith by going on a spiritual journey. Such is the ritual of self-purification of the Way of the White.

    So basically, those that disagree with the church are sent on a "spiritual journey" to achieve "self-purification". But what happens to those that realize they are basically being sent to their deaths? The Catacombs are littered with the bodies of these pilgrims.. So I find it very interesting that the Black Set of Velkas Pardoners has this description. .

    Black Cleric Robe:

    Robe worn by pardoners serving Velka the Goddess of Sin. the pardoners' attire is uniformly black in color and said to be imbued with Velka's mystical power, which provides resistance against all manner of magic.

    Mask of Velka:

    Mask worn by the pardoners serving Velka, the Goddess of Sin. The pardoners listen to the confessions of sinners, urging reflection and salvation. Their masks symbolize sparation from worldly desires.

    Black being the opposite of White (WoW) and Cleric is specifically being mention in their title... so it's true that Velka not only believes in punishment, but also in the use of intelligence (science) to understand the world around you. She also hands out forgiveness when it is deemed fit. Welcoming to the fold rejected Clerics from the WoW, one might say she is very kindly....

    Mask of the Mother:

    One of the three masks of the Pinwheel, the necromancer who stole the power of the Gravelord, and reigns over the Catacombs. This mask, belonging to the kindly mother, slightly raises HP.

    The HP boost would assist the wearer's likely hood of surviving encounters thus preventing death and the activation of the Darksign if the person is branded with it. Which is also similar to another one of Velka's items.

    Rare Roing of Sacrifice:

    This mystical ring was created in a sacrificial rite of Velka, the Goddess of Sin. the magenta-shaded ring is especially rare. Its wearer will lose nothing upon death, and will be freed from any curse whatsoever, but the ring itself breaks.

    So she even pardons death when the proper sacrifice is presented. Funny enough... when traded a twin humanity, Snuggley the crow gives you a Rare Ring of Sacrifice. Was this anotehr way Velka disagreed with the WoW? We know they were sacrificing the Undead and Humans alike to keep the flame alight.

    So, if Velka accepts" rouge" Clerics into her service, one could assume she also accepts Bishops into her group.

    White Seance Ring:

    A divine ring entrusted to the head bishop of the Way of the White and apostle to Allfather Lloyd, uncle to Lord Gwyn. It grants additional attunement slots. The head bishop of the Way of White is the guardian of law and caste, and one of the great royals of Thorolund.

    So this ring belonged to the head bishop of the WoW meaning he was in direct contact with Allfather Lloyd. He would know things that no one else would know, and if his faith faultier ed he could be driven to the occult...It calls this a "divine ring". Who else do we know, with the title of "Bishop" that owns other "divine" items...

    Havel's Great Shield:

    Greatshield of the legendary Havel the Rock. cut straight from a great slab of stone. This greatshield is imbued with the magic of Havel, provides strong defense, and is incredibly heavy. A true divine heirloom on par with the Dragon Tooth.

    If we assume that Havel is this head bishop, then we can also assume that his fall from the graces of Anor Londo stemmed from his knowledge of the inner workings of the WoW. To which he one day grew tired of, or he could not bear seeing Seath use the men and women of the WoW in his experiments any longer. . If he joined Velka's cause, could he have been a part of the "ill-fated" plot that caused the fall of the mother of Gwyn's children, and the group of occultists? Did the fervor and extremism of religion cause Gwyn to abandon his wife and one of his most trusted "battlefield compatriots"?

    On a side note, I'd just like to through out there... In the description of the White Seance Ring it says that the head bishop is one of the great royals of Thorolund...

    Royal Helm:

    Helm of Vamos, skeleton blacksmith of the Catacombs. Partially made of gold, and confers high resistance overall. The helm is believed to belong to an ancient royal line, but only Vamos would know for sure, and he shall never speak again.

    Could he have been the head bishop? Banished to the Catacombs as punishment for not upholding the "law and caste" of the WoW?

    Lastly, I'd like to make a small connection with Nito and Priscilla that I've never seen before.

    Gravelord Nito Lord Soul:

    Sould of the Gravelord Nito, first of the dead. This Lord Soul was discovered at the dawn of the Age of Fire. Gravelord Nite administers the death of all manner of beings. The power of his soul is so great that it satiates the Lordvessel, despite the fact that much of its energy has already been offered to death.

    So as we all know he's all about death and necromancy, and it seems that the WoW supplies him with unlimited skeleton troops with their pilgrims.

    Priscilla the Crossbreed:

    Soul of Priscilla the Crossbreed, trapped inside the painted world of Ariamis. Special beings have special souls. use the soul of this crossbreed bastard child and antithesis to all life to acquire a huge amount of souls, or to create a unique weapon.

    She is the antithesis to all life.... death. Her power of life drain... did it come from Nito? Is his DNA also in this mix with the Crossbreed?

    Well this is all open for discussion. I have tons more to say but this is already way to long. Thanks for reading and let me know what you guys think.


    Last edited by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:28 am; edited 3 times in total


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Automancer on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:27 am

    Sorry if the respond sounds lacking but i kinda have this weird feeling that Velka, Nito/Pinwheel and the Darkwraiths have collaborated before. There's not much to go about this but if you look closely, the statues in the Catacombs are wearing the masks of the Darkwraiths.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:10 am

    Automancer wrote:Sorry if the respond sounds lacking but i kinda have this weird feeling that Velka, Nito/Pinwheel and the Darkwraiths have collaborated before. There's not much to go about this but if you look closely, the statues in the Catacombs are wearing the masks of the Darkwraiths.

    The statues in the Catacombs are actually wearing the Masks of the Father, Mother, and Child. The statues that shoot spikes out have the Mask of the Mother on the Face, and the Mask of the Child on her Stomach. It's not too hard to see you'll have to position the camera just right though because the masks can be hard to make out. =) It's a good theory though.

    *Edit: if you are talking about a different set of statues in the Catacombs please let me know =). I just assumed you ment the ones scattered everywhere lol


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:51 pm

    Shameless bump. Whie I'm on the topic of connecting Nito and Priscilla. . . Priscilla's Lifehunt is similar to the skeletons throughout the Catacombs and ToGs.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Raem on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:39 am

    First other person I saw that also thinks that Velka is the godmother big grin
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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:27 pm

    Raem wrote:First other person I saw that also thinks that Velka is the godmother big grin

    There are others! lol I think their is strong evidence that supports that Velka is Gywndolins mother. Most people will disagree and say that due to the fact that they changed the Velka Covenant at the last minute, and we are just seeing residue of unused content (which could be the case). However, if we look at all the clues it most def points in that direction =)


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Raem on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:11 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:
    Raem wrote:First other person I saw that also thinks that Velka is the godmother big grin

    There are others! lol I think their is strong evidence that supports that Velka is Gywndolins mother. Most people will disagree and say that due to the fact that they changed the Velka Covenant at the last minute, and we are just seeing residue of unused content (which could be the case). However, if we look at all the clues it most def points in that direction =)

    In this direction, check out the altar and the images in the Undead Parish plus the corpse on the altar in the context of the Ring of Sacrifice.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:26 pm

    You know I was just in another thread talking about how I didn't think the Undead Church originally had anything to do with Velka...With your description there I can actually see it now.. lol touche! I'm going to have to go eat some humble pie in that other thread now XD


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:46 pm

    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t13089-analysis-series-astora

    I should have put a link to this in here in from the begining as there are many connections to Astora and the WoW. At the time I was speculating that the Cadecus Round Shield most likely belonged to Astora, however; Nico and Vince use the Cadecus Kite Shield and these items are more than likely connected to the WoW and my theories above. However, this could tie in Astora to all of this as well.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by User on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:37 pm

    Check the statues of the Fog Gate boss in New Londo. Go back to the Painted World and fight the disordered with shields and spears. Look at that statue.

    Now look at Nito. It is a creature of Dark. The Painted World houses an Ember of the Dark. Embers are affiliated to fire. Nito's Minions, the Pinwheels, are known to have Fire.

    The Darkwraiths are structured the same as Nito. Skeletal Body and Black Fur. Ingward also has Black Fur/Feathers where the mask is. A crow picks you up at the asylum; Asylum holds doll. Painted World is the home of Crows; Painted World needs the Doll.

    Painted World has Darkwraith Sign. Also has Dried Fingers. Dried Fingers reset invader timer; Eye of Death resets invasion timer. Darkwraiths invade as Red; Red Sign acts as Red Summon. Gravelords create Red Phantoms in other worlds.

    The Belfry Church is Home to the Pardoner; Pardoner scraps are found in painted world. Miracles and such of Velka are found here. A great woman in size, the statue, is similar to those who bear the children. The belfry church also has such as woman, with a child holding a sword. Is it the same as the one that is standing with her, in the painted and new londo? Unlikely. Statues of the two standing are both girls as seen. The one with the baby has a sword at birth.

    New Londo has banshees that shoot lightning. Lightning is a common affiliation with the gods. They are hollow in face, unlike ghosts. Hollows are affiliated with the Bonfires. Bonfires are similar to Nito in both fire and dark. Banshees hold infants. They have daggers that the baby would see as a sword.

    Wisps of New Londo are seen in the Catacombs. The bonewheels are found in the later and the Painted World. Ties of the darkwraiths/Red Sages, as well as the Crows and pardoners, are close. An undead dragon also exists in the painted world. One exists near New Londo gate as well. Many of their legs are found in Lost Izalith. The Legs seem to surround the place of fire. A titanite Demon guards a bridge. A titanite demon is a place of both the gods areas, as well as the Catacombs.

    Velka's Minions, the Crows, the Darkwraiths, and Nito/Pinwheel are dark. Nito is affiliated to fire as well. A lot more information can be taken if you look closely.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:48 pm

    Acidic_Cook wrote:Check the statues of the Fog Gate boss in New Londo. Go back to the Painted World and fight the disordered with shields and spears. Look at that statue.

    Now look at Nito. It is a creature of Dark. The Painted World houses an Ember of the Dark. Embers are affiliated to fire. Nito's Minions, the Pinwheels, are known to have Fire.

    The Darkwraiths are structured the same as Nito. Skeletal Body and Black Fur. Ingward also has Black Fur/Feathers where the mask is. A crow picks you up at the asylum; Asylum holds doll. Painted World is the home of Crows; Painted World needs the Doll.

    Painted World has Darkwraith Sign. Also has Dried Fingers. Dried Fingers reset invader timer; Eye of Death resets invasion timer. Darkwraiths invade as Red; Red Sign acts as Red Summon. Gravelords create Red Phantoms in other worlds.

    The Belfry Church is Home to the Pardoner; Pardoner scraps are found in painted world. Miracles and such of Velka are found here. A great woman in size, the statue, is similar to those who bear the children. The belfry church also has such as woman, with a child holding a sword. Is it the same as the one that is standing with her, in the painted and new londo? Unlikely. Statues of the two standing are both girls as seen. The one with the baby has a sword at birth.

    New Londo has banshees that shoot lightning. Lightning is a common affiliation with the gods. They are hollow in face, unlike ghosts. Hollows are affiliated with the Bonfires. Bonfires are similar to Nito in both fire and dark. Banshees hold infants. They have daggers that the baby would see as a sword.

    Wisps of New Londo are seen in the Catacombs. The bonewheels are found in the later and the Painted World. Ties of the darkwraiths/Red Sages, as well as the Crows and pardoners, are close. An undead dragon also exists in the painted world. One exists near New Londo gate as well. Many of their legs are found in Lost Izalith. The Legs seem to surround the place of fire. A titanite Demon guards a bridge. A titanite demon is a place of both the gods areas, as well as the Catacombs.

    Velka's Minions, the Crows, the Darkwraiths, and Nito/Pinwheel are dark. Nito is affiliated to fire as well. A lot more information can be taken if you look closely.



    Very true and thank you for taking the time to add all this information. I get pretty wrapped up in item descriptions and a lot of times I leave out the visual/game mechanic clues as well. Other than what you're talking about above I have not been able to connect the Darkwraiths with Nito/Velka/WoW with any item descriptions (or I'm overlooking or misreading) and I've been looking everywhere.


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by User on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:04 pm

    Hm... Let me Help:

    The Pardoner is Carim, Yes? So is Lautrec. Both are originally founded in the Belfry Church. what does the Pardoner Hold? Miracles of Velka, specs of her hair (Talisman), rings of Sacrifice (affiliated to velka, A Rite, and Humanity), and Bite Rings.

    Velka believed in magic of both old and new. As descriptions tell. The crow is very much tied to her in some way or another.

    Ingward and the Darkwraiths are similar to nito and the Crows, in their black attire. Even ingward, by looking at his helm. The helm he wears bears resemblance to a bird of sorts, a beak.

    New Londo is the home of Carim merchandise; Parry Dagger and Cursebite Ring are very much present, and the use of breaking curses is affiliated to Carim as well. Ingward is known to cure curses with the death of humanity. Purging Stones are a treasure held dear by an Earl of Carim, which also invented the Shotel. The Cursebite Ring is affiliated to Velka, same as the rest around. Even the Black Blobs resemble similarity to those in the Painted World.

    The Painted World is affiliated with poison. the Infected, the Rats, and the Dragon show such things. The Dragon spews poison as its breath, as most dragon families have such things (Mushrooms are not part of the Dragon Family). Nito is known to derive from poisons as well. His miracle attack, as well as his sword, both show (although not the miracle for the players, the sword follows its creator's sword).

    Now, Painted World has dark essence. it has also fire. Same with nito. However, the fire is more so chaotic. The infected look like those of Egg Bearers, and they breath fire and poison... the miracles, Acid Surge, resemble the poison/toxic mist, and gives ties to the servant of the white spider (don't ask me the name, I don't care for him by title. Only description). The Exiled King, as you fight him, ties it up. He uses Pyromancy that is chaos, and the body head it wears has blood spots and resembles that of the Egg Heads.

    Hm... the Four Kings (which I speculate as Artorias for MANY different reasons, which I shall defend if you shall object) uses miracles that are similar to that of Velkas... it also ties to Pinwheel and Nito as well. Nito uses an AOE attack that fires off the black substance he has on him... Pinwheel uses magic that duplicates himself, as well as teleport. Velkas miracles disable magic, as well as do a Wrath of God attack if provoked too much. The Four Kings are known to use an AOE attack, a Homing Attack that is similar to Dark Orb and Homing Soul Mass, as well as the possibility of duplication (More than four kings can exist, as well as less than three).

    The Way of White? It ties more so to Nito than anything else. Nito is a creature of dead. The way of white is against the dead, even hollows that are not hollowed in mind (There are some hollows that are not dead in mind. The Merchants in the Burg are good examples, as well as you the player).

    Way of White is known to have priests and clerics destined to hunt undead. The catacombs also holds treasures of occult/divine (Effigy, Cresent Axe, Large Divine Ember, White titanite). The place of Nito is also a house to a statue that exists in the Belfry Church, where the Darkmoon Ring is present. Affiliation of Mother, Child, and Father are not random. Father is strong, mother is kind, child is naive.

    Look outside. Look at the gods and chaos. You shall find more. Everything is connected, once you see it as such. Just find the pieces and put them together. Remember, that yours can not be facts unless certainty of the developers say so. What you say will always be speculation and theory until then. Still, the story is there, and everything is not just placed randomly and chaotically... well, maybe chaotic. You just need to see it. Look at the Gods of Light, Seath, the Chaos, The Past Oolacile, and So forth. Every little detail matters.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:14 pm

    Thanks Acidic! I'm going to digest this and do a little more research. After a quick read though I can see the connections you are pointing out. And yes, I also believe it is all connected like a big messy spider web lol. I won't fight you on your 4 Kings speculation (the Artorias bit) and I'll actually try to dig into that as well to see if I can find anything (because I've never heard that and I find it interesting =O).


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by User on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:16 pm

    This was speculated before DLC, I made. People objected to it, as much as the Crustals of Seath were different than those of Basilisks (Then the patch changes that, and again it confirmed the same. Yeppie Do, Coyote... that's how it goes, right?)

    Do you own work on it, or find information about Artorias here. There is a lot of Data that is here... just don't confuse speculations and theories with fantasy ideas (such as the Crossbreed crap I read at times)... nor ones that have little back-up.
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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 pm

    I do my best to draw a big line between fact (not much around) and speculation (it's everywhere!). It's really hard to believe anything anyone says (including myself) about the story but I like researching item descritptions and art designs to try and peice things together. That's why I started my Analysis Series, I just gather up a ton of data and try and peice it all into something that is cohesive and makes the most sense lol. I've been playing since day 1 and my thoughts on this story have changed so drasticly you could call me a flip floper, but that's what makes it fun! I do have to take weekly breaks though it's so easy to get burnt out (I'm sure you're aware of that more than anybody else lol). Again thanks though, you've pointed me in a general direction to keep researching =O


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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

    Post by User on Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:25 pm

    If you need help to find out how I did it, go to the sticky of Search for Lore.

    Be warned that I do change as I discover new things... that, and the chaos portions were always known to have errors. i fixed them though in my search. just don't post much about it.

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    Re: Analysis Series: Velka, Gwyndolin, Way of the White, Nito, Priscilla

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