I'm clearly missing something, I think..

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    XachAttack
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    I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by XachAttack on Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:58 am

    I don't understand when you're supposed to attack. Whenever someone becomes aggressive their opponent counter attacks, causing damage and anything else that was desired. But if no-one attacks then nothing progresses in the match.

    I do understand that openings are needed to be made in order to move a fight along, but I don't get how to make these openings appear. Any competent player knows to not open themselves to attacks, thereby preventing the match to progress on either side because both players don't want to get hit.

    When someone blocks a hit, damage is negated, but people don't like it when you block all the time. But what else are you supposed to do? Your main goal is to defeat your opponent/have fun, but how can that happen if nothing progresses any further than both people blocking hits because neither of them want to lose?

    I've seen people roll through certain attacks then pull off a rolling attack, but by doing that they open themselves up to a followup attack from their target, causing them to get hit for more damage seeing as rolling attacks aren't generally powerful, with the exception of some weapons.

    Parrying is definently a concept I understand to move a match along, but there needs to be an aggressor for it to work, and since both of you know that once either of you swings the other will dodge/block it and smack you right back.

    I'm an analytical fighter, so I'm hardly ever the first person to attack, so I'de like some insight on this.

    Sorry the lengthy post, but this is something I've never really understood.


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by OmniBot on Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:43 am

    That's where dead angles, guard breaks, chip damage, bleed, poison, etc. come in.

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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by hageshisa on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:44 am

    Bleed is sweet against trutles : ) Also that dam shotel!

    I'm very agressive when I pvp, if my opponent blocks I keep try to hit him. If I'm sure I got more poise I'll try to exchange blows til I eventually stunlock my enemy depending on weapon type I'm using. But I really dislike defensive peeps (Since I'm offensive as fawk) :') And then after they keep evading I make a mistake or three then my as s is backstabbed xD


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by BrotherBob on Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 am

    If an opponent is guarding, try kicking. Unless they have a greatshield, it should knock out a good chunk of their stamina. If you are lucky, and your opponent has a small shield or was not guarding during your kick, they'll be open to an attack.


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:25 am

    Yeah, always carry something to press turtles/passive players. In pyromancy I will fire surge them a lot. Big, heavy weapons can break their guard, and only a few shields are any good vs magic damage.

    As others have mentioned status can annoy people too.


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by XachAttack on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:31 am

    I appreciate the replies, but they can just dodge backwards if I was to use a Shotel. Bleed can be rolled through, but Poison and Toxic I can see working. Though personally I'm not a fan of weakening my enemy.

    But I guess one of my big questions is: How would you damage someone who just rolls away and is very careful and counterattacks everything you do?


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by Dark Spirit EliteBiker20 on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:45 am

    To get the fight going, I usually shoot a little magic at the guy. Depending on the damage though, it could cause the guy to block even more.
    I can relate to this problem, as I have been in whole arena matches where nothing happens except for each of us circling the other. Maybe the whole reason this is becoming more of a problem is because of win streaks. People are probably too worried about keeping their streak to actually engage in a full out battle.
    Now, if this is happening outside of the battle arena, then I can only really think of two reasons why:
    1. If someone invades you and begins to back off and block continuously, then you probably have some sort of advantage compared to him, whether it is armor, weapons, etc.
    2. If you invade someone and they are constantly blocking, then most likely they are trying to reach a certain item or boss and do not wish to do it again.
    These are the only things I can really think of as to why this happens. I guess if you need to get things going, you could always spam magic. You might be thought of as a noob and possibly get some hate mail, but if it finishes the fight, I guess it might be worth it.


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by Nybbles on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:49 am

    play aggressively and force the other player to make a mistake. having a second weapon that causes some sort of status is good for this. once they open up, switch to your main weapon and take advantage of any openings they offer. if they just back peddle, herd them off a cliff or into an obstacle, they can't see where there going when they are moving backwards, take advantage of that. if they start running, you've already won the match. just don't give them any room to work with.

    otherwise roll towards casters, circle/strafe pole arm users. use heavy attacks when be pursued while back peddling (anything with a thrust works well here), dead angle backstab fishers and so on.

    it won't work all the time, when it doesn't you will likely die horribly, but at least it will have saved you 5 minutes of footsies with no pay off.
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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by somnam on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:17 pm

    XachAttack wrote:
    But I guess one of my big questions is: How would you damage someone who just rolls away and is very careful and counterattacks everything you do?

    Playing unlocked isn't too bad an answer to these kinds of guys if you manage to predict when they'll roll and where (safest guess is: behind you) the other thing to keep on hand is a fast weapon like a PGS, Fury Sword, Katana, or knife, not just one that has a status effect (try a large club or gravelord sword, see how "easily" they ward of roll bses).

    The other thing to do is to remember the type of counter they used, then bait them into doing it again when you are ready for it. Some players have excellent tactics...and some don't really expect their opponent to learn.
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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by XachAttack on Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:26 pm

    Again, thanks for the replies guys. The information's getting better and I'm understanding a bit more, keep em comin! :D


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by The Letter X on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:15 am

    Learn their roll patterns. The easiest way for me to beat someone who is playing so defensively that he/she doesn't even attack is by catching him in the middle/right at the end of his/her roll.

    Start by attacking their shield, or going for dead angles if possible. Be wary of parries, so mix in jump attacks (and more dead angles if possible). After charging them a few times, you should be able to tell which way they will roll and the moment they will roll. If you think you've got it, charge them and don't attack. Keep charging until they roll and then attack. If you catch them at the right time it will count as counterattack damage and it will stun them if using a heavy enough weapon, giving you more opportunities to strike.

    I hope this helps. It works like a charm for me, but because I use a weapon like the Great Scythe I can pretty much attack anywhere in there general vicinity and hit them with the sweeping attack. I figured you'd like this strategy since you like to play analytically.

    Good luck.


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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:39 am

    If they're hiding behind a great shield then 2H a shotel or grab a gold tracer and go crazy. This isn't the most damaging tactic but I find it's really great for making people panic. The"Oh no my big shield doesn't work what do I do? I know I'll spam R1" is pretty common with the 2H shotel attacks so you should be able to get a parry off.

    If they're fighting defensively behind a heater shield then beware parries, it is really common for setup parries so don't spam their shield. Unless you can keep out of parry range with an elemental spear and chip away till their forced to changed tactic. Kicking is surprising underused I find, I like to move in quick with a greatsword and it's pretty common for people to think you going for a strike so they parry but you kick instead. They can't parry and you could stagger them leaving an opening for attack, depending on how beardy their being and how annoyed you are, you can go for a roll bs from doing this. If it's a duel I tend to just get a strike in then try for an unlcoked hit when inevitably roll away to escape

    Just a couple ideas for you, hope it's helpful dude

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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by petals18 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:16 am

    A good run move in the moveset is handy, together with a fast roll setup. In the middle of cooking up a washpole/gmw build (again screwed the last one sad ), with the range and speed of attacks between the runstab and the two handed attacks they end up getting stunned or just whittled down even if they are rolling. Yes people try to parry when you try to go through their shields, but I get caught alot less then people seem to suggest I would.

    Against a decent parrier you're toast I suppose, but then lag can mess up even the best parriers. I just like a bold playstyle. Eventually people slip, just hound them.
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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:59 am

    petals18 wrote:A good run move in the moveset is handy, together with a fast roll setup.

    Defintely a major plus. I'm using a BKS on my quality build atm and the 360 degree running attack is so useful for cross-ups, dash next to them, unleash and hey presto they just took a sword to the backside and I've rolled out of attack range. Kinda risky for getting BSed if I mess up the timing but the rewards are so worth it twisted

    It's also got the same attack on the back step which I've caught people out with on occasion and it looks so damn classy

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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by petals18 on Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:09 am

    OrnsteinFanBoy wrote:
    petals18 wrote:A good run move in the moveset is handy, together with a fast roll setup.

    Defintely a major plus. I'm using a BKS on my quality build atm and the 360 degree running attack is so useful for cross-ups, dash next to them, unleash and hey presto they just took a sword to the backside and I've rolled out of attack range. Kinda risky for getting BSed if I mess up the timing but the rewards are so worth it twisted

    It's also got the same attack on the back step which I've caught people out with on occasion and it looks so damn classy

    I mean it may be risky but come on, playing offensively is just the way to do it I think. I mean theres a place for slow calculating duels dont get me wrong but I think generally people could afford to be a bit bolder. I mean how epic is it going to be to kill someone with that move?

    There are always going to be bs fishers looking for an in on everything you do, and they will sometimes get it, but as long as you are playing fair and going for it on the attack, I think you're gonna be having a better time more often than not.
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    Re: I'm clearly missing something, I think..

    Post by OrnsteinFanBoy on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:08 pm

    @Petals18 Absolutely agree dude, I nearly always 2H with that build and play super agressive with fast rolls, the balder shield on my back is mostly for swag points 8). I've actually finished lots of fights with that move in particular, people think I'm going for a lock on BS when I break in to a run but then BAM I've swung 2 seconds before they were expecting me to and they couldn't react. I actually had an epic duel in the burg last night with someone cosplaying a Berenike knight where I got him with the backstep follow version of that move.

    I lost the first duel when I got stunlocked by his mace(I run pretty low poise) but in the second I didn't even take a hit. I saw him going for the R1 spam, parried, riposted and rolled away. As he came at me for another go I did a backstep narrowly avoiding his mace then followed up with the spin attack to the face. Felt godly for a little while lol!.

    Totally off topic but this guy was awesome, everytime I summoned him(RSS) he was cosplaying different characters. I got beasted by Shiva, fought a berenike knight and slayed Lord Gwyn all in the undead Burg. What a dude.

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