If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

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    If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:00 pm

    I'm reasonably new to PvP, but this is an issue I'm coming up against a lot in FH. I've been running around there at lvl 60, which from my understanding is very low. Even so, I'm winning just under half of my battles (maxed pyro glove) and recently upped to 70 off the souls I got.

    However, that's not the point of this thread. I've not played long, and I've already encountered an inconsistency that's both stupid and troublesome: Forest hunters will not help me if I'm 1v1 vs the host. It doesn't matter how high a level the host is, they just stand there until I die. They won't jump in even if I back off.

    A friend told me there is some kind of "duel culture" in PvP. That's all well and good, except the reverse is definitely NOT true (phantoms + hosts will dogpile you in 90% of cases or more; i've only been able to fight a phantom 1v1 once while the host watched). So, if I've stalled out the host and another hunter joins in the game, how about that player ACTUALLY PARTICIPATES in his covenant activity?

    It gets to the point where it's beyond stupid; host gets away and heals, my "teammate" sees this, and he STILL won't press the host. FH invasion ability + numbers is one of their advantages! Use it!

    I've been chewed out for hiding from some 1v2 and 1v3 situations too, as if I'm supposed to charge multiple higher level players alone. Nonsense. I'm going to try to win, even if that means hiding with mushroom men or in a precarious area of trees near a cliff.

    I'm sure this experience will be better as I strengthen my character, but my frustration with teammates who don't play sensibly likely won't diminish.

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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by Nybbles on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:16 pm

    what's even worse is when you're by yourself being walked over like a door mat by a sunbro while the host hangs back and keeps healing them. you pray for help as you're an inch away from oblivion and you manage to hang on just long enough for that invasion message to finally pop up. then you get that sinking feeling that the player is idling and didn't take the cat ring off … Why Would You Leave That Ring On When You're AFK!
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by billy_bayonet on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:22 pm

    The forest is Lawless, you will enjoy yourself alot more if you just accept that and have fun killing things


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by hageshisa on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:23 pm

    I want to believe that they dont help cuz they are good with gankning parties. And since you are hunting in forest, they might assume you got what it takes :')


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:26 pm

    Haha. I know that feeling also.

    One thing I've been toying with is putting a crossbow on the off hand so I can swap it and fast-shoot someone who tries to run + hit estus. Problem is, I need a better xbox and better bolts. Right now all I have is a +10 thing with wooden bolts (GREAT for pulling in PvE, not so good in pvp as it won't even stun people).



    If I could slam someone for 300-400+ per bolt hit, it wouldn't be so easy for them to run + chug in FH battles (and the occasional pot-shot by surprise would be fun).

    The reason I'm considering getting up to a proper ~SL 100-120 is that right now my primary weapon options are very limited. I have a lightning spear which I am basically not willing to use because it's parry/BS fodder and a fire sword +5 (blows). At my level basically all I have is pyromancy though like I mentioned earlier I win a lot of fights using pyro + bellowing (didn't take me long to realize I could swap that in over cat ring post-invasion before the summon animation completes and not lose any time at all).

    However, if I can't get my xbow to good damage with better bolts and +15 or some such, I might have to drop the black iron + FAP set. It's a fun set though because you still have < 1/2 equip weight and can tank hits and hit back with spells big grin.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by GkMrBane on Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:58 pm

    billy_bayonet wrote:The forest is Lawless, you will enjoy yourself alot more if you just accept that and have fun killing things

    Billy is totally right it is way lawless I got to the forest when I want total chaos no rules butt kicking fun. I dont care if my invaders heal chain bs or anything else cause given half the chance I'd do the same. Now if I were in the burg then I'd act civil.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by eduardolee on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:24 pm

    I hate when that kind of hunter joins the battle....if you're just too "honorable" to help,just jump off the cliff and disappear so i know i'm alone or a real hunter can join and help with the killing.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by eduardolee on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:27 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:Haha. I know that feeling also.

    One thing I've been toying with is putting a crossbow on the off hand so I can swap it and fast-shoot someone who tries to run + hit estus. Problem is, I need a better xbox and better bolts. Right now all I have is a +10 thing with wooden bolts (GREAT for pulling in PvE, not so good in pvp as it won't even stun people).



    If I could slam someone for 300-400+ per bolt hit, it wouldn't be so easy for them to run + chug in FH battles (and the occasional pot-shot by surprise would be fun).

    The reason I'm considering getting up to a proper ~SL 100-120 is that right now my primary weapon options are very limited. I have a lightning spear which I am basically not willing to use because it's parry/BS fodder and a fire sword +5 (blows). At my level basically all I have is pyromancy though like I mentioned earlier I win a lot of fights using pyro + bellowing (didn't take me long to realize I could swap that in over cat ring post-invasion before the summon animation completes and not lose any time at all).

    However, if I can't get my xbow to good damage with better bolts and +15 or some such, I might have to drop the black iron + FAP set. It's a fun set though because you still have < 1/2 equip weight and can tank hits and hit back with spells big grin.

    Get the Avelyn man.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:27 pm

    GkMrBane wrote:
    billy_bayonet wrote:The forest is Lawless, you will enjoy yourself alot more if you just accept that and have fun killing things

    Billy is totally right it is way lawless I got to the forest when I want total chaos no rules butt kicking fun. I dont care if my invaders heal chain bs or anything else cause given half the chance I'd do the same. Now if I were in the burg then I'd act civil.

    You're missing my point. I'm going into the forest to fight because it IS lawless, and my "teammate" forest hunters are obeying some imaginary "law" where they don't attack the host. I'M the invader! This is a fast and fun way to get souls and upgrade items. It's not as fast as glitch-grinding the forest npcs or fire storm spamming the painted world, but it's still pretty fast. However, all I ask is that other FH are also ruthless!

    It sounds like if you were an invader beside me, you would jump in and 2v1 the host. That is the acceptable behavior. My frustration here is with people who DON'T do that in the FH invasions happy.



    Get the Avelyn man.

    I'm considering it, but it has stat requirements I've not committed to yet. Currently I'm 40 vit 40 end, 16 attunement (4 pyromancy slots, maxed +5 ascended glove) and not much else.

    Considering xbow +10 can hit for ~120 using wooden bolts, I bet if I started firing heavy or elemental bolts off xbow +15 I could get some respectable damage.


    Last edited by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by RANT on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:28 pm

    you should expect EVERYTHING in the forest, both the good and bad thats just how it is.
    @nybbles those are the players i hate the most, they just go to sleep or something hoping to get souls from other hunters kills or from sovs or dw kills that the gankers get.
    as a forest hunter if i see a full flipping havel agains a guy thats obviously underleveled i will help him since my asumption is that he was ganking, if he was there for the boss he woulldve done the obvious which is to run for the fog door, he stays and fights means hes trying to gank imo and i will gank back if hes doing nothing but bs specially.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by Lord of Ash on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:31 pm

    If they play dirty yuo play dirtier Im a trader if a see a host and phantom I message the phantom and bribe them 70% of the time this works but you gotta be quick like as soon as you invade hide and message. or wait for another invader invite them to a chaat and when they answer come up with a plan



    ps the cleric in the woods will heal you if your an invader so hopefully the host doesnt kill him


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:34 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:you should expect EVERYTHING in the forest, both the good and bad thats just how it is.
    @nybbles those are the players i hate the most, they just go to sleep or something hoping to get souls from other hunters kills or from sovs or dw kills that the gankers get.
    as a forest hunter if i see a full flipping havel agains a guy thats obviously underleveled i will help him since my asumption is that he was ganking, if he was there for the boss he woulldve done the obvious which is to run for the fog door, he stays and fights means hes trying to gank imo and i will gank back if hes doing nothing but bs specially.

    I have no problem with ganking. A quick look at the rules tells you it's a predictable outcome even before you pick up the game. However, stalling for help is also therefore acceptable in my book.

    What isn't acceptable are those players who do nothing. Whether it's because they're AFK or because they're deliberately standing there watching you and refusing to help is immaterial. It's the same effect; a phantom slot taken by someone doing nothing.
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by RANT on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:40 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:you should expect EVERYTHING in the forest, both the good and bad thats just how it is.
    @nybbles those are the players i hate the most, they just go to sleep or something hoping to get souls from other hunters kills or from sovs or dw kills that the gankers get.
    as a forest hunter if i see a full flipping havel agains a guy thats obviously underleveled i will help him since my asumption is that he was ganking, if he was there for the boss he woulldve done the obvious which is to run for the fog door, he stays and fights means hes trying to gank imo and i will gank back if hes doing nothing but bs specially.

    I have no problem with ganking. A quick look at the rules tells you it's a predictable outcome even before you pick up the game. However, stalling for help is also therefore acceptable in my book.

    What isn't acceptable are those players who do nothing. Whether it's because they're AFK or because they're deliberately standing there watching you and refusing to help is immaterial. It's the same effect; a phantom slot taken by someone doing nothing.

    wait. are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? i personally dislike them but after months invading the forest i just bruh everything off, i dont care anymore and once you do that(which takes a while) you will enjoy the game a lot more.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:50 pm

    Forest Hunters should definitely check out the Glory For Alvina thread in the Covenant section. Look at the mix of NPCs in the Forest and then you'll see why some of us choose to hang back. There's an assassin, a cleric, a couple knights, an archer, a sorcerer, a guy from "The East." The forest takes all kinds.

    For the record:
    If I invade and it's one on one with no healing, let the best man (not men) win. If the host heals, I hope he can dodge my projectiles while trying to fight you. If he heals twice, I hope he can fight both of us. If he tries to summon, I will do my best to kill him before the phantom spawns. If he does ANYTHING that makes me think that the match is no longer about the best warrior winning (see above for example) I will do everything in my power to aid my hunter brethren and see an end to his reign of forest trespassing. If I've fought the guy before and have witnessed directly even past instances of ganking, healing, attacking while bowing etc., I will sprint to help you in their demise the second I spawn. No hesitation, no questions asked. And when I succeed in killing these players, I will hit "select" and use the point forward gesture to tell these players "GET THE **** OUT OF MY FOREST"

    If he keeps the match clean, I will watch to the finish and bow to the victor.

    Let's not forget one basic principle here: it's a game in which we're meant to enjoy ourselves. I do not find joy in double teaming an honorable host. If anything, I would like to PROMOTE honorable hosts by showing them they can get a fair fight. I DO enjoy double, triple, nonuple, etc. teams for people who use tactics I don't like. This is not an indictment. They're free to gank, WoG spam etc. but I'm free to help a blue, let my beloved Jubokko help out etc. at my discretion. I have more fun watching a clean fight than winning. I have more fun losing a clean fight than winning at any cost. So while the covenant is set up to allow us strength in numbers, it's also set up to allow us the choice.

    If you don't agree with me and have more fun with a double team effort I sincerely don't hold any ill will toward you and won't tell you my way is the correct way to play. Heck, I've defended groups of gankers who spam rude gestures because they can play their way too. Long story short, if you see my PSN id pop up and I don't intervene in a one on one fight, that's my way of playing and I'm just here to have fun.

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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:01 pm

    I always help other catbros. When you spawn, you don't know if the other hunter was just ganked and killed the phantoms (which is pretty likely). Get in there and kill the host. I expect to be jumped when I invade the forest. I want to be jumped. My entire satisfaction is overcoming those odds and taking the gankers down a notch. If the forest suddenly turns honorable, I probably would be invading as a catbro.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by GkMrBane on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:12 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:
    GkMrBane wrote:
    billy_bayonet wrote:The forest is Lawless, you will enjoy yourself alot more if you just accept that and have fun killing things

    Billy is totally right it is way lawless I got to the forest when I want total chaos no rules butt kicking fun. I dont care if my invaders heal chain bs or anything else cause given half the chance I'd do the same. Now if I were in the burg then I'd act civil.

    You're missing my point. I'm going into the forest to fight because it IS lawless, and my "teammate" forest hunters are obeying some imaginary "law" where they don't attack the host. I'M the invader! This is a fast and fun way to get souls and upgrade items. It's not as fast as glitch-grinding the forest npcs or fire storm spamming the painted world, but it's still pretty fast. However, all I ask is that other FH are also ruthless!

    It sounds like if you were an invader beside me, you would jump in and 2v1 the host. That is the acceptable behavior. My frustration here is with people who DON'T do that in the FH invasions happy

    I see, well I understand you man im a lvl 131 (going to lvl 200) and I just wait to be invaded and when I get gang beat by some covies I dont get upset its just a game to me. however when I beat multiple invaders at once I do like to spam the prayer gesture walk on the faces. MUAHAHAHAHAH!!!


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TheMeInTeam on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:14 pm

    It's a tough situation on spawn but that strategy element is part of the fun. You don't know at first where they are or if it's 2v1, 1v2, or 2v2 (and if it's 2v2, I need to get there FAST or it's going to be 1v2). I did comically join into a game where some extremely high level darkwraith got killed giving me 200000 souls (ridiculous at level 60 to get that instantly) and actually cliff-kicked the phantom before the host BS'd me big grin.

    One thing I'm considering is picking up that spell that lets you appear as an object. I'm not sure how useful it would be in other areas, but in the forest? Gankers would be EXTREMELY hard pressed to find you if you didn't spawn on them. If you get the bridge spawn you could turn into an object en route to the boss also, but at the very minimum you can buy time vs gankers. Even without the spell, I've hidden in an obscure area and watched a phantom or two quit then went and killed the host...in a few instances after the phantoms quit I got a hunter and it was 2v1 on the would-be ganker lol.

    One question; how many souls do you get for killing someone at a given level? I've gotten a ridiculous # of souls a few times, which means I probably killed someone much higher level. I got 10k and my first indictment in a 2v2 where the host rolled off a cliff away from my pyromancy lol. 2v2 are my favorite; total chaos especially when someone decides to switch targets. That particular host reaction came when we did a double-switch; my target went for my teammate who noticed and took him on and I peeled in front of the host and intercepted his BS path, so he tried to use magic on me which I tanked while spamming combustion in his face ^_^.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by skarekrow13 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:20 pm

    I would recommend not using Chameleon. You turn into one of the little trees but the lighting doesn't affect you the same way. You're an insanely black looking tree that is easy to spot. Unless the patch changed that. You CAN place one of the glowing flowers nearby (between you and the victim) and this makes the lighting look more legit but it's still more of a gamble than the fog ring.

    You get 10% of what it would take for them to reach the next level I believe. So if you get 200,000 souls they need 2 million to level up (aka, REALLY high level)

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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:26 pm

    if its 2v1 with me on the 2 side i'll stand back as long as the 1 isn't a jerk or my ally is under powered... but i don't forest hunt much anymore, i mostly toddle around the dlc area's...


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by RANT on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:30 pm

    chameleon makes you a really dark tree like skare said and its not very succesful since most gankers have been ganking there for a while and a lot of them use it. the fog ring is pretty awesome and better imo.


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by Lord of Ash on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:20 pm

    Im a trader and do A LOT of trading in the burg so Im a forest hunter so I get summed from the peaceful burg to the chaotic forest to blow of steam and bribe phantoms to abandon their host


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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:37 pm

    TheMeInTeam wrote:
    It gets to the point where it's beyond stupid; host gets away and heals, my "teammate" sees this, and he STILL won't press the host. FH invasion ability + numbers is one of their advantages! Use it!

    Happens to me all the time with reds (I am a FH) - ahh well, no big deal. You just learn to live with it. Also I will only step in if it is a 2v1 - or if it is a 1v1 and the host heals. I don't gank otherwise. On a note, also if I see the Red heal I will kill him instead of the host. Then heal after killing red and have a duel with the host.


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    Nybbles
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by Nybbles on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:17 pm

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:
    TheMeInTeam wrote:
    It gets to the point where it's beyond stupid; host gets away and heals, my "teammate" sees this, and he STILL won't press the host. FH invasion ability + numbers is one of their advantages! Use it!

    Happens to me all the time with reds (I am a FH) - ahh well, no big deal. You just learn to live with it. Also I will only step in if it is a 2v1 - or if it is a 1v1 and the host heals. I don't gank otherwise. On a note, also if I see the Red heal I will kill him instead of the host. Then heal after killing red and have a duel with the host.

    in my experience, reds have always helped the host, turning the invasion into a 3 vs 1. if i can manage it, the red is the first one i try to take out … i never understood why dark wraiths would help the host in the forest, didn't they invade so they kill the host, not help them?
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    befowler
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by befowler on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:25 pm

    When people say expect anything in the forest, they mean anything.

    Expect fellow FH invaders to be idling with the ring on so they can get free souls from other people's hard work as they sleep.

    Expect fellow FHs to actually be secretly aligned with the gankers and refuse to help you, while occupying an invasion slot.

    Expect DW invaders to also be friends with the gankers and try to kill you instead.

    Expect to routinely get double, triple, or quadruple teamed by a rainbow assortment of enemies who send you hatemail if you try to use the terrain or mobs to your advantage, let alone if you actually kill some of them.

    I'm not saying any of these things are certain to happen, but just that if you expect them to you won't be surprised or disappointed. I mean, I've had "friendly" FHs run ahead of me on bridges and then just stand there like a roadblock so you can't move, while their ganker buddies run up behind you. People have been looking for the lowest possible level in the Forest for a long time and still haven't found it. But for the true FHs, this is what makes victory all the sweeter.


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    TehInfamousAmos
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    Re: If you are a Forest Hunter, help other hunters!

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:34 pm

    befowler wrote:When people say expect anything in the forest, they mean anything.

    Expect fellow FH invaders to be idling with the ring on so they can get free souls from other people's hard work as they sleep.

    Expect fellow FHs to actually be secretly aligned with the gankers and refuse to help you, while occupying an invasion slot.

    Expect DW invaders to also be friends with the gankers and try to kill you instead.

    Expect to routinely get double, triple, or quadruple teamed by a rainbow assortment of enemies who send you hatemail if you try to use the terrain or mobs to your advantage, let alone if you actually kill some of them.

    I'm not saying any of these things are certain to happen, but just that if you expect them to you won't be surprised or disappointed. I mean, I've had "friendly" FHs run ahead of me on bridges and then just stand there like a roadblock so you can't move, while their ganker buddies run up behind you. People have been looking for the lowest possible level in the Forest for a long time and still haven't found it. But for the true FHs, this is what makes victory all the sweeter.

    I HATE TIM CURRY IN IT! WHY THAT CLOWN AVATAR SIR!?


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