Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

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    sinspaw
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    Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by sinspaw on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:10 am

    Does anybody else think Bed of Chaos is the witch of Izalith herself? We know that when she tried to manipulate the flame, just about everything on sight was corrupted and disfigured. Quelaag, The fair lady, Ceaseless, and others. Given this, I'm under the impression that the very first thing this manipulated flame corrupted was the Witch itself, and her herself became the origin of demons and stuff.

    Most of all though, the very first time you enter the boss fight, although it's all made of wood and branches, to me it looked like it could've been a person. In the middle, her 'hair' goes up when you first go in, and on the sides, well they used to be her arms. Take a look here.

    Thoughts?
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Tolvo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:17 am

    In game they do refer to the witch of Izalith as the Bed of Chaos. She also has the Lord Soul of the Witch.
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Rarayn on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:21 am

    You kill the Bed of Chaos by killing the Witch of Izalith underneath it though. I assumed that was her, anyway. Perhaps it's more a case of the Witch becoming a conduit for chaos energy that "feeds" the Bed of Chaos?
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:31 pm

    sinspaw wrote:Does anybody else think Bed of Chaos is the witch of Izalith herself? We know that when she tried to manipulate the flame, just about everything on sight was corrupted and disfigured. Quelaag, The fair lady, Ceaseless, and others. Given this, I'm under the impression that the very first thing this manipulated flame corrupted was the Witch itself, and her herself became the origin of demons and stuff.

    Most of all though, the very first time you enter the boss fight, although it's all made of wood and branches, to me it looked like it could've been a person. In the middle, her 'hair' goes up when you first go in, and on the sides, well they used to be her arms. Take a look here.

    Thoughts?

    So I have a thread with a lot of speculation, and in it I address the Bed of Chaos. Instead of giving you the link I'm just going to copy paste it in, let me know what you think =)


    Witch of Izalith


    In my first post I speculated that


    “If what I’ve said about the Lords Souls
    and Dark Soul reign true then this would explain why the Witch of Izalith
    attempted to recreate the first flame and why it failed. Over the passing of
    time, Gwyn and the others along with the flame started to lose their power.
    With the Dark Soul, the power to sustain/maintain, out of their reach (due to
    the splitting) she attempted to recreate the first flame which; in turn, would
    recreate the Lords Souls and the Dark Soul. This is what I believe distorted
    the “flow of time” that we read about on the white soap stone. If time already
    exists what happens if you attempt to create time again? Chaos and the
    distortion of the current time, thus creating alternative planes of existence.



    I’d like to try and use some things I’ve
    found to help support this…. Firstly, I’d like us to look at some of Qualaana’s
    dialogue.


    “… Hmmm…
    I have a favour to ask…
    My mother, the Witch of Izalith, was one of the primeval Lords*1*
    Her power came from the soul that she found near the First Flame.
    ..She focused this power to light a
    flame of her own, but she failed to control it*2*.

    The Flame of Chaos engulfed Mother
    and my sisters, and molded them into deformed creatures.
    Only I escaped, and now I am here.*3*

    But my mother and sisters have been in anguish since.
    I beseech you. Free Mother and my sisters from the Flame of Chaos*4*.
    I cannot do it myself; I lack the strength, and the bravery…
    …But you…
    I realize what I am asking. But please, free their pour souls…
    Mother's ambitions were misguided, no
    doubt, but surely a thousand years of atonement is enough**!



    1.
    I just wanted to
    put this in here. They use the word primeval a lot in this game and the fact
    that Qualaana is the only NPC that I know of that calls them this.. I thought
    it was interesting to note. She was there during the Dragon Wars/Intro etc….
    She knows exactly what happened during these times


    2.
    I always see people
    say that the Witch failed in creating her own flame but she did not. She only
    failed in controlling it. And that flame still exists! Which continues to
    distort time….


    3.
    Later in this thread I’m going to speculate
    that Gwyn and his knights never made it to the bed of Chaos and that they only
    beat back the Chaos demons back to the Ruins. I’m also going to speculate later
    that this is one of his reasons to link the flame (fix the time
    distortion/sustain his immortality) more to come on that……. However, the 2
    branches we cut right before we take care of the bug in the bed of chaos are
    likely (it’s been speculated before, I didn’t come up with this) 2 of the chaos
    daughters. I believe they (this is the part I came up with) are there for the very
    reason Qualaana says her mother failed.
    They sacrificed themselves to control
    what their mother had become..which was not…. The Bed of Chaos… I’ll talk about
    this at the end….


    4.
    We defeat the Bed
    of Chaos, but do we ever see this Flame of Chaos? The bonfire that pops when
    you defeat the bed looks like a normal bonfire to me…. Is the Chaos flame
    located somewhere else? However…. Even the “First Flame” in the Kiln looks like
    a normal bonfire so…….Again, I’ll talk about this at the end….


    5.
    I think this line supports
    what I was saying above about the Witches reasoning to recreate the first flame
    (see above). However, like anything in this game, I know this line doesn’t
    prove anything… I could try and bend it to support anything I claim… sooo with
    that said take it with a grain of salt =)

    Now let’s
    look at some Pyromancy =D



    I specifically
    wanted to talk about Undead Rapport because I see Shkar always fighting people
    about “undead” being alive. And I’ve never argued that, undead is just a name
    that people with the darksign are given meaning they are without true death.
    But, this item description supports exactly what he’s saying…..



    Undead Rapport:


    Advanced pyromancy of Quelana of Izalith.
    Charm Undead and gain temporary allies.


    The living are lured by flame, and this
    relationship is part and parcel to the art of
    pyromancy. Can be used by either gender.


    It clearly says “Charm the Undead” and in the line right
    underneath it, it states “the LIVING are lured by flame”. I think that pretty
    much sums it up lol.


    Here is where things get a little tricky…. So we just said..
    “the living are lured by flame” and because of this we were saying
    Undead=living yadda yadda… but read this!


    Fireball:


    Standard pyromancy of the Great Swamp.
    Hurl fireball.



    The fire damage caused by fireballs makes
    them effective against corporeal beasts and

    Undead, who by nature fear flame.


    So wait? What? They
    are lured by the flame or they fear it?? Which is it man!?!?! I think what they
    mean here is…. They fear the flame when it is used as a weapon, the power is
    used against them..,however; they are lured by this same power if they believe
    they can wield it.



    Next let’s
    look at the upgraded pyromancy glove….



    Upgraded Pyromancy Glove:


    Pyromancy flame drawing upon the latent power
    of Quelana of Izalith, mother of pyromancy.

    For the pyromancer, a flame is a precious
    thing indeed, to be nurtured, often for an
    entire lifetime. When the flame is shared, it
    creates an eternal bond between the parties.


    So Quelana created
    Pyromancy… it says here she’s the “mother” of it…. Strangely enough she calls
    the Witch of Izalith her “mother”. Hmmmmmm…. Let’s look at the Lords Soul
    Description really quick….



    Bed of Chaos Lord’s Soul:


    Soul of the Bed of Chaos and the mother
    of all demons. This Lord Soul was found

    at the dawn of the Age of Fire.


    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate
    the First Flame from a soul, but instead

    created a distorted being of chaos and fire.
    Its power formed a bed of life which would
    become the source of all demons, and is more
    than enough to satiate the Lordvessel.


    So from this
    description, it pretty much tells us that… the Witch of Izalith is not the Bed
    of Chaos… She is the Bed of Life from which demons were born…..Yes she’s that
    big *** distorted tree looking creature.. but… that’s not the Bed of Chaos
    either… It’s that bug… The bug is the Chaos Flame, the bug is the distorted
    being of chaos and fire. From what it looks like the bug is the physical
    manifestation of her Lord’s Soul…. This was the product of her attempt to
    recreate the First Flame… The item description is kinda confusing but bear with
    me and let’s pick it apart….



    1.
    The Lord’s Soul is the Soul of the Bed of
    Chaos…and the Bed of Chaos is the mother of all demons… ok we get that….


    2.
    It also says the Lord Soul was found at the dawn
    of the Age of Fire, but it does not specifically say by whom. Why not? Because
    we already know? Let’s keep reading…


    3.
    The Witch of Izalith attempted to duplicate the
    First Flame from a soul, but
    instead created a distorted being of chaos and fire.


    4.
    Its
    power
    (meaning the power of the being of chaos and fire The Chaos
    Flame, The Bed of Chaos) formed a bed of life which would become the source of
    all demons.


    So what do we know about the Dark Souls universe. That they
    love the Yin and Yang idea… So if the Bed of Chaos was created then of course a
    Bed of Life would also be created. The Witch of Izalith was that Bed of Life,
    hence; it’s not until we kill the bug hiding within the Bed of Life does the
    Bed of Chaos die. So because the Bed of Chaos created the Bed of Life, it would
    be seen as the mother of all demons…


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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Artoriasflagg on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:31 pm

    I had always assumed that the giant fire creature that appears from the top of the tree portion of the Bed of Chaos was the Witch, more or less being chained by the parasite-like creature in the center... but the more I think about it the less sense that makes, making me think the parasite might be the Witch... Honestly, I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure, but Deaths' analysis of the situation seems to make more sense than anything else at this point.


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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by ublug on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:51 pm

    I always thought the tree is the remains of what was once the witch. The living flame of chaos you release is the deformed result of her failed experiment, similar to ceaseless's tentacles and quelaag's spider body. And the parasite you kill is the 'offspring' of her experiment, the source to all demons.
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Rarayn on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:53 pm

    Wait, the thing inside was a parasite? I could have sworn it was a character wearing the Gold-Hemmed Black Set. >.<

    Didn't get a close look though, seeing as I was instantly killed by the Bed of Chaos fire attack the moment I killed the bug. I see what it is now that I got a closer look in the video in the original post.
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by CaligoIllioneus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:08 pm

    This is the parasite-like being:

    http://i.imgur.com/Nkk8a.jpg

    (image taken from the artbook)
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by moaiguy42 on Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:53 am

    Personally, I think the Witch of Izalith is somewhere obvious in the game, such as an npc in disguse, but not as the Bed of Chaos. Though it feels as if it makes sense.


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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by sinspaw on Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:28 am

    I wouldn't think that the Witch would be alive and not deformed, simply because what she created deformed a lot of what was around it, and like I said, she would be the closest being and therefore in my view the first to be deformed. I think that room where the bed of chaos is, is where the WoI attempted to create the new flame. WoI is stuck there, and Quelaag, Fair Lady, and ceaseless were cought up eventually when the new corrupted flame rose to deform them all. The Fair Lady seems to be stuck there, so I'm guessing she was she is now when the corrupted flame rose.

    That said though... I have no idea what the parasite is. It could just be that WoI simply created that thing instead of a genuine flame, and that thing is what brought the chaos wrath. But, I don't know.

    @Deathsitexxi You have some good theories man. I do however, respectfully, disagree. I don't think it's so much yin-yang kind of thing. I think it's more to do with sacrifice. WoI was already unbelievably powerful for a witch. She got even more powerful with the lord soul, and after that, she wanted more? Well, the chaos flame punished her for her arrogance, and everything else around it. I suppose they did get more powerful in the end, except poor fair lady, although deformed.
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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:58 am

    sinspaw wrote:I wouldn't think that the Witch would be alive and not deformed, simply because what she created deformed a lot of what was around it, and like I said, she would be the closest being and therefore in my view the first to be deformed. I think that room where the bed of chaos is, is where the WoI attempted to create the new flame. WoI is stuck there, and Quelaag, Fair Lady, and ceaseless were cought up eventually when the new corrupted flame rose to deform them all. The Fair Lady seems to be stuck there, so I'm guessing she was she is now when the corrupted flame rose.

    That said though... I have no idea what the parasite is. It could just be that WoI simply created that thing instead of a genuine flame, and that thing is what brought the chaos wrath. But, I don't know.

    @Deathsitexxi You have some good theories man. I do however, respectfully, disagree. I don't think it's so much yin-yang kind of thing. I think it's more to do with sacrifice. WoI was already unbelievably powerful for a witch. She got even more powerful with the lord soul, and after that, she wanted more? Well, the chaos flame punished her for her arrogance, and everything else around it. I suppose they did get more powerful in the end, except poor fair lady, although deformed.

    You're right I could be very wrong about my details of my speculation, and what I say is just that, huge speculation lol. But with what the Bed of Chaos Lord Soul description it's hard to explain in any other way. For example, if the tree being is the WoI the life bar we see at the bottom belongs to the BoC, however, when we damage the tree being the life bar does not move. Meaning to me that the tree being is not the Bed. And the Bed of Chaos soul makes reference to a Bed of Life as well, which honestly could even reference the fair lady.... but I can't prove that either XD. It doesn't necessarily have to be related to Yin/Yang seeing as the nature of Chaos I don't think could be placed on either one of those lol so I think that was a bad comparison on my part. There are a lot of Alchemy references in this game as well. I do believe the bug is the physical manifestation of the WoI Lord Soul though. Meaning I think it is the Chaos Flame and in turn the Bed of Chaos, when we see it, it is on fire and when it dies so does the Bed of life. In the end though the item translation is pretty confusing making reference to things the way it does lol. Thanks for the discussion and for reading my long post to begin with =)


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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Artoriasflagg on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:09 pm

    CaligoIllioneus wrote:This is the parasite-like being:

    http://i.imgur.com/Nkk8a.jpg

    (image taken from the artbook)
    Never saw that image before... Anyone who has played the DLC content, that thing look familiar to you at all? It's head at least if nothing else? I'm pretty sure that used to be human, or at least something similar to a human.


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    Re: Just a thought about Bed of Chaos

    Post by Peaceful Wollyhop on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:56 pm

    ublug wrote:I always thought the tree is the remains of what was once the witch. The living flame of chaos you release is the deformed result of her failed experiment, similar to ceaseless's tentacles and quelaag's spider body. And the parasite you kill is the 'offspring' of her experiment, the source to all demons.

    Well the parasite bug thing is where the tree's/Witch of Izalith womb would be so that makes sense.

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