Is build optimisation as important as we think?

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    Cabjoy
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    Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Cabjoy on Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:58 am

    Hi all,

    I've been PvPing for about a month now, and the first thing I noticed when frequenting the forums was how meticulous people were getting with their builds, in terms of being extremely concerned with the placement of a single skill point or the use of particular armour.

    I understand that being careful with your build and planning efficiently will increase the effectiveness of said build, but should we always be so perfect as to limit ourselves to one particular play style?

    From my brief experience in PvP, I've noticed no significant difference in my win rate when using optimised builds in comparison to non optimised builds.

    For example, I have an Artorias build sitting at SL 130 that is intended for PvE due to the somewhat poor stat spread. Because like most of us, I get bored of PvE at times, I also use this build for PvP at times and feel that I have a fairly consistent fights across the board. I'd say I win about every second fight I play, which I'm reasonably happy with. However, I've been playing using a Gargoyle's Halberd and Composite Bow, and my damage output, health and end could both be drastically improved if I were to rework the build for this playstyle.

    I, for one, really can't be stuff making new builds for PvP and don't care to start a new character if I misplaced a couple of skill points.

    I want to ask you guys if you feel that optimising characters makes a significant difference in your success rate in PvP, and if you think it's worth backtracking/restarting if a build has been compromised by poor planning.

    Keep in mind this is purely out of interests sake, and that I have no intention of reworking builds even if most of you guys think it's a good idea silly

    Get discussin'! happy
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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Glutebrah on Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:07 am

    as long as it is with in reason its not important.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by BackstabFisherman on Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:51 am

    Only thing build optimization does is give better players a more effective platform to win with, and it also gives noobs a solid build to use and practice with.

    With the tools available, like the character planner, its not that hard to optimize a build for a specific thing.

    Like for example, I want a SL 120 build that will optimize backstab damage, then it would be something like this:
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4085693168111866

    lol
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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Zechk on Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:50 am

    It's mostly about player skill in this game, but you might as well give yourself the best tool for the job to practice with.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by hageshisa on Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:18 am

    Many forum membes use certain sl caps to use build. For lower slbuilds it's (atleast imo) more important with a "perfect" build. And when capping yourself to say 100, it gives less space than 120 and requires more planning.

    For myself, I would never do a random build especially since BB glitch is gone :')


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by The Letter X on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:30 am

    The only things I worry about when "optimizing" my build are hitting the poise breakpoint I'm going for and the weight requirements for the roll I'm going for. After that it's all for looks and lagniappe.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:46 am

    a couple of points is not gonna make a huge difference but it does help depending on the build, but i gotta say that most people dont follow the sl 120 rule and go for 130 to get more spells or vit so the people that cap their builds at 120 have to optimize them as much as they can.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Glutebrah on Thu Nov 01, 2012 11:13 am

    Gear optimization is much more effective then stat optimization.

    for example...

    http://tinyurl.com/bx6vnqc

    most would say build is horrible, wasted stat point in Attunement, wasted points in str/dex and a lot of wasted points in Resistance.

    fact is it still has 2k life high damage poise and armor.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:48 pm

    I don't think optimisation is that important.. I mean obviously you're not gonna have a great chance if you kit yourself out with a broken straight sword but if you're using a fully upgraded weapon and a guy with decent stats, the extra points misplaced here and there or the slight AR difference between you and your opponent etc. won't make much difference.

    to be fair though, with stuff like the character planner out there you're hardly gonna find many builds that aren't almost perfect..


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:00 pm

    I invaded a lot of guys in londo with dual katanas I won a lot of them, sure I used a technique with it and I was try harding all my duels (not using any really cheap or uneccesary stuff in fact nothing at all was cheap) and I discovered that it really just all depends on being good rather than OPd as ***.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by StockpileThomas on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:09 pm

    Being optimized makes me sleep better at night. One wasted point, and the build is dead to me.

    Luckily, planning builds is easy and fun!

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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:13 pm

    lol i like optimizing my build onlly because i use str weapons and that extra point in end could be the difference between beign able to wear that armor that;s perfect for both looks and poise. but i also have deleted build that i didnt like how their face looked, after that i started by using the first humanity i found and using it to make sure i liked how their face looked.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by StockpileThomas on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:24 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:lol i like optimizing my build onlly because i use str weapons and that extra point in end could be the difference between beign able to wear that armor that;s perfect for both looks and poise. but i also have deleted build that i didnt like how their face looked, after that i started by using the first humanity i found and using it to make sure i liked how their face looked.

    Haha, for some reason I always mess up the skin tone on my characters, even though I don't tweak it, it shifts a bit. A lot of my characters would turn out orange or yellow -_-

    I played a new character for a few hours while hollow, only to discover later that my skin was Jersey Shore orange.

    Look Skyward

    Since then, I always use that first humanity upon reaching Firelink to make sure I'm not orange or yellow.
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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by RANT on Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:31 pm

    StockpileThomas wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:lol i like optimizing my build onlly because i use str weapons and that extra point in end could be the difference between beign able to wear that armor that;s perfect for both looks and poise. but i also have deleted build that i didnt like how their face looked, after that i started by using the first humanity i found and using it to make sure i liked how their face looked.

    Haha, for some reason I always mess up the skin tone on my characters, even though I don't tweak it, it shifts a bit. A lot of my characters would turn out orange or yellow -_-

    I played a new character for a few hours while hollow, only to discover later that my skin was Jersey Shore orange.



    Since then, I always use that first humanity upon reaching Firelink to make sure I'm not orange or yellow.

    lol it pissses me off too that because of the lighting in the actual game your toon looks very different.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by argotthar on Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:29 pm

    Was thinking about the same thing as OP. I got two similar Dex/Int builds SL100 but neither is perfect. I was thinking about making third one but with the help of the planner I decided it's pointless. Gear on both is optimized and only difference is in attunement and dex. So making the third similar build would make it perfect but difference is so insignificant that simply isn't worth it.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by lordgodofhell on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:35 am

    I think optimal build planning is something fun to do and watch come to life. Does it drastically affect my win rate personally? This I am not sure, but I do know it doesn't decrease my win rate at all.

    Often times I will fine tune a build, learn its playstyle, and move on to a new build. This is how I have learned to fight against every build in the game. By using every type of magic and weapon class, I have become familiar with them. Same goes for armor, I can rough estimate ones poise based on what they have on due to optimizing my own poise.

    I think when you duel or battle an inexperienced player, these things do not matter on your end due to the fact they lack the skill to defeat you. When you face an equal and worthy opponent, build optimization becomes more of a factor in deciding a strategy for the win.


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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by Cabjoy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:18 am

    Glad to hear you guys interested in the discussion! I think the main reason I wanted to point the fact out, is that when I first started PvPing I didn't think I should even try dueling until I hit the SL I was after with my build. Thankfully I didn't wait the whole time, and got some early games in. It helped me realise that incomplete builds can still compete, as long as you're smart about how you play. Against organised dueler's though, I'm afraid I mightn't have had the same success.

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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by LoreFF on Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:06 am

    http://tinyurl.com/a427e8x My pyro build. optimized not really. fun to play HELL YES!!!

    Optimization is fine and all but i play to have fun both in PvE and PvP.


    Last edited by LoreFF on Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i still cannot spell)
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    Re: Is build optimisation as important as we think?

    Post by argotthar on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:24 am

    LoreFF wrote:Optimization is fine and all but i play to have fun both in PvE and PvP.

    Yeah, my only NG++ char is kind of mix for PVE/PVP and still my favorite char for PVP although it's not that optimized:
    http://tinyurl.com/c7hlhv4
    (using Iaito +15 instead of trust swords for PVE)


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