I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

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    Wade_Wilson
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    I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Wade_Wilson on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:01 am

    I was having a conversation with a good friend about DkS's lore, and specifically the primordial serpents. I began to think about what they truly represented.

    According to the Serpent Rings, serpents are incomplete, undeveloped dragons so to speak. The primordial serpents seem to be everlasting, like their developed kin, which means that the primordial serpents would have been around during the age of the dragons.

    Serpents are the embodiment of greed: the rings' powers reflect that. I speculated that during the age of dragons, the primordial serpents would have plotted to overthrow their superior kin, in a quest for power and dominance. Being mere imitator of the dragons, they would have been far too weak to usurp them, however. They would have needed a catalyst of some sort.

    That is were Gwyn and the other soul lords come in. Frampt reveals he was a close advisor of Lord Gwyn: it is not beyond the realm of possibility to theorise that Frampt have been the trigger to Gwyn's uprising and usurping of the Dragons.

    Another theory that I have begun to formulate is a strange one: All the primordial serpents are one being, a primordial hydra so to speak. In classic mythology, a hydra may hunt it's prey but every head will snap at each other and struggle for dominance, even when working towards a common goal (the prey).
    During the Dark Lord ending, the third serpent reveals that "Kaathe and Frampt will serve your highness". It struck me as strange that Frampt, who pushed you so hard to choose the linking of the fire, would suddenly turn round and be happy to serve this new dark lord, who represented the scope of Kaathe's undermining.

    However, if you think of the serpents as one being: it is not peculiar at all. The primordial hydra wants to maintain a power balance in it's favour: the methods are irrelevant. Both Kaathe and Frampt use conflicting methods in their approach the the Chosen Undead and yet, like the hydra hunting it's prey, are both working towards the same goal. Whether the chosen undead links the fire, keeping the world at a standstill and prolonging the age of Gods, or whether the chosen undead walks away and becomes the dark lord, a puppet of the serpents, the primordial hydra always wins. The serpents are trying to achieve one goal: when it is clear that one method will succeed, they work together instantly.

    I don't pretend this is canon. I was just thinking, and I'd love to hear other's insights and thoughts.


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Spurgun on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:06 am

    someone has theorized that the serpents are on big hydra. I can't remember if it's you or someone else.

    Regarding your theory. I find this both likely and unlikely. But i'm not a lore person, so i wont even try debate with you silly
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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by RevolverSnake on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:54 pm

    That Hydra theory is very interesting.


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Repto on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:47 pm

    Nice, I really like that primordial hydra idea, sounds quite likely!
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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Dogwelder on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:29 am

    Interesting hydra theory, I like it.

    I don't have enough in-depth knowledge of the lore to put forward any kind of detailed argument either way, but it seems to me like there's definitely something going on behind the scenes with the primordial serpents, especially considering the Dark Lord ending.


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Acarnatia on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:37 pm

    There is the matter that there already IS a hydra (two, in fact) in Dark Souls. Of course, they could just be something similar that FromSoft came up with on their own.
    By the way, I keep thinking I've seen some fantasy creature in a movie or something when I was very little that looked EXACTLY like them. I have no idea where, though. Did anyone else think Frampt or Kaathe looked familiar the first time they saw him?


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:42 pm

    This is a nice one. I like it a lot! cheers

    But then what about the in-game Hydra enemies? Are these just immature serpents? :suspect:

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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Mr. Tart on Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:56 pm

    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:This is a nice one. I like it a lot! cheers

    But then what about the in-game Hydra enemies? Are these just immature serpents? :suspect:

    Just like dogs and cats both have four legs, what stops the serpents from being hydra-like by having several heads?

    I really love the way you think. Since you never see the body that could actually be very likely. I like it. silly


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Repto on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:05 pm

    It could be that the serpents are hydra like, but there isn't a main body. Could they be separate entities that are all controlled by one mind, but have different personalities. That would explain why they have different goals but team up in the Dark Lord ending.

    This speculation stuff is fun! big grin
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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Shkar on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:41 pm

    I really like when people come up with the same theories as me. Makes me feel that I had a good idea (in this case, the hydra theory).


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by X-government-agent on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:21 pm

    this makes a lot sense


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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Spurgun on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:03 am

    Mr. Tart wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:This is a nice one. I like it a lot! cheers

    But then what about the in-game Hydra enemies? Are these just immature serpents? :suspect:

    Just like dogs and cats both have four legs, what stops the serpents from being hydra-like by having several heads?

    I really love the way you think. Since you never see the body that could actually be very likely. I like it. silly

    That could be true. But. The hydra in ash lake can jump over the road, out of the water. So it's probably not the case.
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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by lalliman on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:30 pm

    I really like this theory...
    The first thing you said is definitely true, primordial serpents are imperfect dragons that have been around since the age of darkness. And at least Frampt sided with Gwyn etc in the fight against the dragons, dunno about the other 2.

    If they're all attached to a body, that would explain why Frampt hangs upside down when he brings you to the lordvessel. If he was truly a serpent you'd think he could just slither a little and get upside up.

    And there really doesn't need to be a connection between the hydra's and the primordial... hydra. And if there is i guess theyre just like dragons and drakes.
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    Re: I was speculating about Kaathe, Frampt and the other primordial serpents.

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:56 pm

    Spurgun wrote:
    Mr. Tart wrote:
    WhatDoesThePendantDo? wrote:This is a nice one. I like it a lot! cheers

    But then what about the in-game Hydra enemies? Are these just immature serpents? :suspect:

    Just like dogs and cats both have four legs, what stops the serpents from being hydra-like by having several heads?

    I really love the way you think. Since you never see the body that could actually be very likely. I like it. silly

    That could be true. But. The hydra in ash lake can jump over the road, out of the water. So it's probably not the case.

    I believe you misunderstood me. Let me put it this way, say the Hydra in Ash Lake is a dog. And the ''Serpent Hydra'' is a cat. They're not the same, they do not have the same qualities. Thus, one may be able to something another cannot. They could have some things that are close to the other, like dogs and cats having four legs. So the fact that the Hydra in Ask Lake can jump changes nothing. The possibility is still there.


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