ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

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    goober0331
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by goober0331 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:49 pm

    Lol so you want me to list counters, but then exclude me from saying certain things? Consider that I've already listed ways to fight against spears, except you seem to just ignore those and continue your idiotic mantra.

    I'm done with this mundane conversation. Your just reinforcing my statement that instead of people making correct, adaptable builds, and changing their gear to better suit that fight, they just want to keep complaining.
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:08 pm

    goober0331 wrote:Switch to GS, if I feel like it
    Turtle with shield up and hit them with my spear as their coming in (only if their 2handing)
    Use a bow
    Or if their turtling, use pyro (GC and black flame) and their done
    Your tactics are Use a spear, Use a bow (which Ive never seen as a counter to a decent spear user) and use short range pyromancy (which wouldnt work against a decent spear user). Against a decent spear user I can only see using a spear yourself as a viable counter, the rest arent really useful.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:15 pm

    The only tactic I can think of when facing a spear user is to wait for them to make a mistake. Prostration
    I probably lose 3 out of every 5 fights against good spear users because they generally can't be beaten by normal means. I am completely fine with it being that way, though. Spears were the most coveted melee weapons in medieval times.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:23 pm

    Guys, Turtling. If you see a spear user, menu swap an Estoc or any rapier/spear and use your shield. Easy. If they turtle back, bs fish.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by roanispe on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:42 pm

    Any weapon can beat a good Spear user, but, for many of them, the only consistent way would be Dark Wood Grain Ring roll backstabs. You can land a punishing backstab from maximum range with appropriate timing, and reflexes. I can't do it all the time, but it is always an option: just strip down, throw on the ring, and go for broke. Weapons that don't need to do this to beat a competent spear-user are the quick, forward moving attacks like those of the Katana, or Halberd. Although Spears have low commitment, they have commitment nonetheless; you take the hit, and the motion will carry you through to land the attack. If you don't have the poise, nor the ring, you can still try to do a strafe hit coming from an angle to avoid the attack. This is unwieldy, but it is still possible.

    One major weapon that will have exceptional trouble against the Spear is the Greatsword, and you should think quickly of switching weapons if think you are in for a tough match. Running Spear attacks should not be used against another Spear, even though it is a forward running attack; the low damage makes getting counter hit not worth it most of the time. Generally, when I faced "for the win" Spear users, I switched to a Silver Knight Spear to secure the first kill over a long frame of time, then went back to the Chaos Blade to get faster kills at higher risk. The most important bit of advice I can give is to avoid panicking during a fight; you can make a comeback against the low damage output of the Spear with a different weapon the moment you start getting hits. Turtles are a non-issue for the most part; they aren't hard to deal with if you have the patience required to get the right spacing to punish their attempts.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by FinPeku on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:02 am

    @Roan

    How did your streak end by the way? I hope it was against good player and not a twop + pursuers mage.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by roanispe on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:12 am

    I was about to get a win with a single hit more, but then in the last few seconds I was chainstabbed by the deadly Hornet + Silver Tracer because I forgot to stand still when getting up. I almost got the kill in the last 4 seconds as they ran up the stairs, but I was an instant too late to get the kill. It was exhilarating loss, so I had no regrets; I was going to send congratulations, but the player only spoke Japanese, and I couldn't be bothered to change the language settings at the time.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:46 am

    I don't have any decent streak to speak of best I've done is 15 3 times...then meet a couple runners and a TWOP pursuer dude(that's lame)....but I try to adapt to every opponent I face if I see pursuer I do dwgr ect...and I keep all my weapons close so I can go between them quick...I run a 20 str 40 dex have been switching between CB/halbert/sks/Great scythe and scythe with a gold tracer comp bow and Great Comb/Black flame!

    Nice work on the streak BTW Roan lol


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:49 am

    DoughGuy wrote:
    goober0331 wrote:Switch to GS, if I feel like it
    Turtle with shield up and hit them with my spear as their coming in (only if their 2handing)
    Use a bow
    Or if their turtling, use pyro (GC and black flame) and their done
    Your tactics are Use a spear, Use a bow (which Ive never seen as a counter to a decent spear user) and use short range pyromancy (which wouldnt work against a decent spear user). Against a decent spear user I can only see using a spear yourself as a viable counter, the rest arent really useful.

    Dough I countered your spear tactics. I just poised through the intial strikes to stun lock you with a high DPS weapon.

    Its far from full proof and only works half the time but a strong weapon like the Gscy puts the fear in most spear users!


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by Juutas on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:20 am

    Spears are beatable yes, but they are still the best weapons.
    Like Roanispe said: turtling is not an issue at all it's the 2H poke n' flippers.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by DoughGuy on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:33 am

    The random negger is striking throughout this topic.
    @Viral I wasnt talking about anti spear tactics in general, just the ones that guy listed.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:34 am

    Agreed. The Worst Arena Combo Ive seen has been the DWGR Silver Knight Spear and BSS WoG...... GRR and to top it off they had Hornets on! ***


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:37 am

    I just checked the leaderboards and I can't believe the professional backstab fisher I fought got to +200 wins. When I fought him he was at around 80 wins. Also I can't believe how people got so many streaks, I just get turtle rapiers poise backstab fishers that once they get the win they turtle the whole fight by dodging away all your attacks.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:45 am

    Every tatic listed so far I don't see working aganst a DSS user that fought exactly like I said. You can't poise walk through a stab if the spear user only stabs once max range and flips away, you will never land a hit. The R1 is one the fastest attacks in the game, Sure if he tries and spams R1 it could work.

    Turtleing back with a rapier would never work, you don't have the range to ever hit him.

    And when I was asking for a true counter, equipping a spear to fight a spear doesn't really count, it's nota countery.

    I guess the only legit one posted so far was dwgr roll bs, but i don't think you can roll bs a 2 handed DSS at max range.


    I hate to drag this on but it drives me nuts when people say there are counters to something and the only counter they can say is the actual weapon or spell it self. It's like saying the only counter to TWOP was TWOP, doesn't work that way.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by roanispe on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:39 am

    I've done personally all the tactics I have listed. I have done them multiple times against many varying lag conditions, and I can attest to their success against an actual Dragon Slayer Spear flipper that tried to poke me from maximum range. It's not fun to face, it's not easy to face, but it's possible to face. Personally, I rank it above facing turtle buff builds on the list of things I don't want to face, but, when someone tries to pull it off, I'll damn well give them a run for their money to show them that it is not a guaranteed victory. Hopefully, it'll dissuade them from continuing to use it, but it's their choice, and I can't deny its effectiveness.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by mankind on Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:18 am

    i got a 55 win streak with a sl100 toon as you can see in the leaderboards, iam in the TOP20. i fought the nr. 1., this fight was annoying as hell, the only thing this guy is able to do is bs you and then chain bs you. we had a draw (he bs'ed me to death one round and the second round i did the same to him) and never fought this guy again, but he was online from thursday last week till yesterday. absolutely bad guy with perfect bs, chain-bs skills.

    and for your information, you can change the equipped things you see in the leaderboards as the number 1 has done. he didn't fight with the armor and weapons you see.
    for this u only have to re-enter the arena with the toon in the leaderboards, equip whatever weapons, armor you want and win the fight, or equip it when the fight is almost over. what people than see in the leaderboards is the changed gear and not the gear you used while fighting.

    greets mk

    btw: congrats to your 75 streak roan, i don't have that much but iam close to you.
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by xelectrowolfx on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:54 pm

    went on a 32 streak last night on xbla sl 99. Lost to hornet backstab fisher. Still got me on the 8th spot for duels though.
    I used this set up.
    http://tinyurl.com/9of2o2y


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:01 pm

    Congrats roan, i haven't checked it much recently. 75 beat out pep, right? I didn't see you except for the first day, looks like you really did improve your game. Like glatts was saying, i have only got a couple 10win streaks. That was just the only two times ive attempted the arena though, i think if i went all out most i could get is maybe 20-25. So i basically just look at the arena as somewhere to practice. That top spot does seem a bit fishy, they don't even have 53poise when they easily could.

    What's with the downvotes? someone jealous tongue

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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by goober0331 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:32 pm

    Beating a 2h fast rolling spear user is *** easy!!! I dont know how many times I have to say this, and others have said it, except it just goes one ear and out the other for certain people in this thread.

    TURTLE WITH A SPEAR!!! The opponent will give you NO PROBLEMS!!!

    EVEN IF YOU CANT WIN THE MATCH, DONT LOOSE!!!!!! LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!!!! KEEP THE STREAK GOING!!!!

    And to say that a counter does not involve using a similar weapon against your opponent is downright idiotic. OHHH its not a "true counter", its not some magical thing that makes the fight easy as ****. A counter can BE ANYTHING THAT WORKS EFFECTIVELY AGAINST A CERTAIN WEAPON/TACTIC. Just because it has the same name, or style DOES NOT MEAN it isnt a counter. Why do you guys have that insane stubborn way of thinking.

    Come on people, just because your experiences in certain fights falls outside the realm of your knowledge, DOES NOT MEAN AT ALL that certain weapons/tactics dont work. Your being ignorant in thinking in x's and o's, and not possibilities.
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:46 pm

    goober0331 wrote:Beating a 2h fast rolling spear user is *** easy!!! I dont know how many times I have to say this, and others have said it, except it just goes one ear and out the other for certain people in this thread.

    TURTLE WITH A SPEAR!!! The opponent will give you NO PROBLEMS!!!

    EVEN IF YOU CANT WIN THE MATCH, DONT LOOSE!!!!!! LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY!!!! KEEP THE STREAK GOING!!!!

    And to say that a counter does not involve using a similar weapon against your opponent is downright idiotic. OHHH its not a "true counter", its not some magical thing that makes the fight easy as ****. A counter can BE ANYTHING THAT WORKS EFFECTIVELY AGAINST A CERTAIN WEAPON/TACTIC. Just because it has the same name, or style DOES NOT MEAN it isnt a counter. Why do you guys have that insane stubborn way of thinking.

    Come on people, just because your experiences in certain fights falls outside the realm of your knowledge, DOES NOT MEAN AT ALL that certain weapons/tactics dont work. Your being ignorant in thinking in x's and o's, and not possibilities.



    using a spear against a spear is not a counter, its a "if you can't beat them join them". Saying the only way to beat a spear is with a spear is just stating my point even more that a spear is the most powerful weapon in the game if the only weapon that can beat a spear is a spear.

    i don't expect some one who thinks spears take skill, and can only win with spears to understand that.


    Last edited by Glutebrah on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:55 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by goober0331 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:52 pm

    LOOOOL this is *** hilarious.

    I have never stated, or implied that spears take "skill" and thats the only thing I use. I have a dex build that I can switch to a spear if I deem it so, and I was able to get a 30 streak a few days ago using a spear with other weapons (GS, BSS, BC, etc etc), switching out WEAPONS AND TACTICS when I needed to.

    So your just putting words in my mouth and assuming things about myself that arent true. Congrats on that.

    And if spears are the most "powerful weapon in the game", then I just gave you the secret to beating them. *** congratulations.

    And it is a *** counter. You are just unwilling to accept that casue your *** daft.

    And finally there are others ways to beat spear. I have listed them, others have as well. YOUR JUST NOT *** SEEING IT. And just because you havent had success, DOES NOT MEAN ITS NOT VIABLE.
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by Glutebrah on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:07 pm

    goober0331 wrote:The spears (specifically SKS and DSS) are very very good counter attacking weapons. I primarily used a SKS to get my 30 streak, but had to change weapons on a couple of fights when my opponent knew how to counter said spears.

    Spears can be difficult but not unstoppable.

    you say there you primarly used your spear for your 30 win streak, but swapped when an enemy can counter it. why don't you list what "counters" they were using against your spear?

    goober0331 wrote:
    When I come up against another spear user I:

    Switch to GS, if I feel like it
    Turtle with shield up and hit them with my spear as their coming in (only if their 2handing)
    Use a bow
    Or if their turtling, use pyro (GC and black flame) and their done

    you listed these as Counters to spears, but i already explained im talking about people who use spears exactly like i described. you would never kill some one with a bow, you would never get close enough to use a GC or Black flame on them. And unless the lag is awful you are not going to land a BS on them, even with the DWGR you would need lag on your side since a spear attacks so fast and you have so much distance to cover.

    goober0331 wrote:But then if any opponent is very stubborn and keeps doing those tactics you described, then even if I couldnt beat them, I would make sure I didnt loose.

    you then go on to say that some one using the tatics i described would make them almost impossible to kill, you just make sure you don't lose, so your not really beating a spear user you are just having a turtle match for 3 mins, sorry that isn't fun game play.

    goober0331 wrote:Yes I know that, which is why in the arena i get mostly draws against other good spear users, the ones that 2h and dodge/counter attack. But its only like that since after I switch my set up ( I actually menu swap to a demon slayer spear) then they just keep flipping around, trying to poke through my shield.

    Spears can create a stalemate in a match, which is fine, its just tactics cancelling each other out, and then whoever is "better" at PVP should win.


    Were both agreeing on the same thing, just expressing our different views on it.

    you mention here how most of your matches are Draws caused from two spear users unble to kill the other. getting a draw is not a counter.

    yes it IS possible to beat a spear user, spear users that fight sloppy and overly aggressive, but if you are a spear user that turtles and only hits R1 once and flips away, those are the ones that are impossible to defeat, and a 3 min "stale mate" is not fun nor a counter.


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by StockpileThomas on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:38 pm

    After reading this thread I don't want to use spears anymore, hehe.
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    Juutas
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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by Juutas on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:48 pm

    Say NO to spears and stop using them today!


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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

    Post by StockpileThomas on Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:50 pm

    What about piercing swords, are those "okay" to use?

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    Re: ARENA LEADERBOARDS wtf?!

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