Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

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    Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Seignar on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:35 pm

    Just something I would like to speculate about. Manus seems very inclined to be the furtive pygmy. I'll cut straight to the facts and cut off all the details:

    • This entire problem with the abyss began with Manus, as the abyss emitted from him. There was, otherwise, no danger from the dark before; while it is admitted that the Dark always grows stronger, never was their mention of something more vicious as the abyss.
    • The primordial serpents were the ones that tricked Oolacile to unleash him. But, why specifically him? How could they have known that Manus could do so much unless there was something special about him?
    • He drops an excessive amount of humanity when defeated. Note that it is said that his own humanity went wild, but it was never stated that he absorbed humanity from others. So, Manus had a large quantity of humanity (or...a large portion of the Dark Soul).
    • While the Dark Soul was indeed split in-between all existing humans, Manus did indeed possess a huge amount of humanity, which may indicate that most of the humanity originated from him. In fact, I'm pretty sure all the sprites you see in the chasm are actually even more fractions of Manus' humanity, as the residents of Oolacile were deformed, but they kept their humanity. Manus simply had so much of the Dark Soul that he couldn't contain it all.


    Among other things, I wanted to talk about Manus' strange behavior. Notice how Manus actually grabs you twice before you fight him, The first time he brings you to Oolacile; why did he let go if he had you? The second time he grabs you and drags you to the bottom of the abyss; why did he wait for you to awaken before striking you down? Another thing is Dusk. Being captured by Manus, she is relatively unharmed and is simply emotionally scarred. What could he wanted from her?

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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Oct 25, 2012 2:18 am

    The lore does say Primeval Human....but not THE Primeval Human.....

    Until I smucsh the DLC Im unwilling to beleive the Pygmy is Manus.....


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by FattyOfDoom on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:28 pm

    He wanted her to get to you I think. He knew if you realised Dusk was missing you'd look for her and he wanted his broken pendant.


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by samster628 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:13 pm

    Firstly MANUS IS THE PIGMY AND ANYONE WHO THINKS OTHERWISE IS DENSE (no offence). WE NEED A SERIOUS OVERHAUL OF THINKING IN ALL THREADS SAYING SUCH THINGS AS "THE PLAYER CHARACTER IS THE PIGMY" now that thats out of my system some theorys on dusks kidnapping.
    1 Manus thought she had the pendant
    2 Manus wanted to lure you to get her and in the process get his pendant back
    3 He needs to use her as the leader of the relm to acheve his goals. after all new londos rulers helped that place fall to the Abyss.
    3 HE IS HER FATHER. I'm serious, his pendant suggests he was an oolicelian and OK so he could be her great great grandfather. Same thing. I just find it odd how dusk isnt at all harmed yet all the other residents are mutilated.

    Just a few ideas to be getting on with.


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by WyrmHero on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:02 pm

    He also has a catalyst, maybe an Oolacile catalyst transformed by the Abyss. All the habitants of Oolacile are transformed into insane things. Manus and the others have these strange red glowing "eyes", so they're definitely related (transformed by the Abyss). Artorias was also corrupted by the Abyss, but as he isn't human, his body wasn't so affected by the transformation, but his mind is (instinctual behavior, like an animal, same as Manus).

    The broken pendant says something about reverence, it could mean that Manus was someone very important in Oolacile (maybe the king). His soul says that his humanity went wild, so maybe this is what caused the shattering of the Dark Soul, meaning he was the Fourth Lord by his time. Primeval human suggest that he could be the Pygmy, or a very close descendant. I like the descendant idea better since humans can't live long. The question is why he wants the broken pendant back and why does a crystal golem has it. Maybe Seath found it? I could think so since he has many mysterious things (Primordial Crystal). What does the broken pendant even do?

    Kaathe says in his dialogue that the Age of Dark began, but Gwyn prevented it by linking the fire. Could the time we arrive in Oolacile be the beginning of the Age of Darkness, as the awakening of the Abyss suggests?


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Raem on Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:28 am

    In the end it is again up to everyone if Manus is the Pygmy to them, cause there is not enough evidence to say ,,Yeah, there is no doubt that Manus is Pygmy" .
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Rynoa on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:11 am

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Elizabeth (or someone else... I don't remember XD) say that "Oolacile awakened Manus"? So I always assumed that he/it wans't someone else transformed into Manus, I just thought Oolacile summoned this creature, maybe to test their magic powers or for protection or I don't know.
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Raem on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:01 pm

    Rynoa wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Elizabeth (or someone else... I don't remember XD) say that "Oolacile awakened Manus"? So I always assumed that he/it wans't someone else transformed into Manus, I just thought Oolacile summoned this creature, maybe to test their magic powers or for protection or I don't know.

    Soul of Manus says ,,Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss. This extraordinary soul is a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity.
    Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of
    the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious
    broken pendant."

    So he was once a human being living in his cave or unliving because there is a small grave in his area until his hzumanity went wild (whatever that means) and he ascended when Oolacile digged too deep.
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Rynoa on Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:06 pm

    ooooh I see what you mean!
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by CaligoIllioneus on Tue Oct 30, 2012 3:34 pm

    A kind of wild theory that occurred to me is that Manus was an ancient (primeval) human that resided in the Abyss...remember "from the Dark they came"? Maybe this being never left the Dark. "The grave of primeval man" may have been the Abyss (the Dark) itself.
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:26 pm

    The broken pendant seems to be from Oolacile, as its description suggests. I don't remember if there's a dialogue that says that the pendant belongs to Manus. I'll play the DLC again and check.


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:29 pm

    CaligoIllioneus wrote:A kind of wild theory that occurred to me is that Manus was an ancient (primeval) human that resided in the Abyss...remember "from the Dark they came"? Maybe this being never left the Dark. "The grave of primeval man" may have been the Abyss (the Dark) itself.
    \

    I did notice the intro sequence from the game to be very similar to the Chasm of the Abyss. I like that theory.


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:34 pm

    But the Abyss turns humans into insane maniacs. Could that mean that that's the original state of man?


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Mourning Sun on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:24 am

    Just a quick bit of input here since I've seen the broken pendent brought up a few times.

    The way I see it, couldn't it feasibly just be From poking fun at the community for our obsessive quest for the meaning of the (old) pendent. Manus is unnaturally obsessed, so were we. I'm probably wrong, but it could just be a nod towards us.
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Raem on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:21 am

    Another point about Manus and the Oolacile people are their red eyes. Don't they remember you of something?
    Also consider that due to the twisted timeline in Lordran Manus could be one of the first invaders ever since he lives in the past.
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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Rin on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:53 am

    If he became the father of the abyss after his humanity want wild then he was most likely more like normal humans before he transformed.
    The Furtive Pygmy was an unknown being that found the dark soul however the dark soul is in no way connected to the abyss apart from the fact that the abyss corrupts it, it also corrupts other 'races' but differently. Also Pygmy couldn't be called a human, if you look at Gwin and his people Gwin is different seen as superior so Pygmy cannot be called human but the creator oh humans and the first possessing humanity...


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    Re: Manus = Furtive Pygmy? [Spoilers?, oh come on, you know]

    Post by Rynoa on Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:25 am

    Mourning Sun wrote:Just a quick bit of input here since I've seen the broken pendent brought up a few times.

    The way I see it, couldn't it feasibly just be From poking fun at the community for our obsessive quest for the meaning of the (old) pendent. Manus is unnaturally obsessed, so were we. I'm probably wrong, but it could just be a nod towards us.

    I am absolutely sure they made it a broken PENDANT because of the useless pendant and our obsession with it! They could have made it anything but they choose a pendant... very funny From! :x

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