I LOVE THE ARENA!

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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:48 pm

    Well it just means that to be competitive in the arena you need to have 12-14 faith,not that bad really. I just wish more people payed attention to the 2vs2 and FFA arenas.
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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:52 pm

    FFA is awesome,less when you end up matched with 3 Dark Mages,but still awesome...if it wasn't only about sneaking behind for a backstab.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:58 pm

    vatar5 wrote:I don't see how healing with miracles is bad...
    After all,it takes a lot of time to heal and you're exposed to a GS R2 or a BS...
    And if it's when he just pown'd you,it's only fair that he recovers health like you.

    Its really not though if I cant do it then neither should he, Healing was never intended in the arena the only reason you can use heal is becuae its a miracle and doesn't count as an item, also what makes you think peopel that use it are good in the first place? The people I've seen use the amn thing have been turtles, spear rangers, WOTG spammers, Twoppers and tryhards. Arena could have been ten times better than what it is now, I never beleived it would work out anyway. I only use it for FFAs which I can't find because EVERYONE loves dueling a healer that fast rolls with a spear with over 1600 health with plenty of back up castings.Rant finishe


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:22 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    vatar5 wrote:I don't see how healing with miracles is bad...
    After all,it takes a lot of time to heal and you're exposed to a GS R2 or a BS...
    And if it's when he just pown'd you,it's only fair that he recovers health like you.

    Its really not though if I cant do it then neither should he, Healing was never intended in the arena the only reason you can use heal is becuae its a miracle and doesn't count as an item, also what makes you think peopel that use it are good in the first place? The people I've seen use the amn thing have been turtles, spear rangers, WOTG spammers, Twoppers and tryhards. Arena could have been ten times better than what it is now, I never beleived it would work out anyway. I only use it for FFAs which I can't find because EVERYONE loves dueling a healer that fast rolls with a spear with over 1600 health with plenty of back up castings.Rant finishe

    Well THAT was a baseless rant.
    So if I use Emit Force I suck?Also you can't say Heal is a bad miracle only because of the people using it.
    Oh and if you were dueling a healer,how the heck do you manage to NOT punish him?Get a ranged weapon if he uses TWoP.
    My Artorias build uses Heal to recover 25% health between duel rounds so I can last longer and because from my point of view,it's fair,I allow my opponent to heal if I lose so we can fight again equally.
    Also if you use an elemental spear,it's really easy to get 1600 health and fast roll with decent armor at SL 100 thanks to RoFaP. And since you only need 12/14 faith for heal...


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:36 pm

    vatar5 wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:
    vatar5 wrote:I don't see how healing with miracles is bad...
    After all,it takes a lot of time to heal and you're exposed to a GS R2 or a BS...
    And if it's when he just pown'd you,it's only fair that he recovers health like you.

    Its really not though if I cant do it then neither should he, Healing was never intended in the arena the only reason you can use heal is becuae its a miracle and doesn't count as an item, also what makes you think peopel that use it are good in the first place? The people I've seen use the amn thing have been turtles, spear rangers, WOTG spammers, Twoppers and tryhards. Arena could have been ten times better than what it is now, I never beleived it would work out anyway. I only use it for FFAs which I can't find because EVERYONE loves dueling a healer that fast rolls with a spear with over 1600 health with plenty of back up castings.Rant finishe

    Well THAT was a baseless rant.
    So if I use Emit Force I suck?Also you can't say Heal is a bad miracle only because of the people using it.
    Oh and if you were dueling a healer,how the heck do you manage to NOT punish him?Get a ranged weapon if he uses TWoP.
    My Artorias build uses Heal to recover 25% health between duel rounds so I can last longer and because from my point of view,it's fair,I allow my opponent to heal if I lose so we can fight again equally.
    Also if you use an elemental spear,it's really easy to get 1600 health and fast roll with decent armor at SL 100 thanks to RoFaP. And since you only need 12/14 faith for heal...

    If you use heal in arena AGAINST someone who cant you are enticed to use it when the enemy literally can't punish it, this is purely based off of the fact that its no different from a host flasking on a invader who can't use humanity k how much of an advantege is that? If you can heal after you beat me and you have 25 HP left over I can't punish it because I'm respawnin not in your face with my bow at the ready, emit force isn't as much a pain as heal is because that is a punishable avoidable miracle and I can't punish a healer when I'm repawning can I? My arguement is based off the fact that healing in arena can't be punished due to the way people use it and if my pure melee build with no attunemtn and faith can't get a quick pick me up bthen neither should yours I have absolutely no problem with it if you use it when I can do something about it wbut when contrrol is taken away from me and I can't do anything that is outright unfair. Its not their fault its froms Prostration please dont take it the wrong way.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:46 pm

    I don't take it bad,im saying my opinion bra.
    Also you're reasoning is,I believe,flawed. I'm not going to not use magic because my opponent can't.
    Also when your opponent kills you and heal,you also recover your health entirely. It is not comparable to the invading situation because,well when the invader/host dead,the healing has no impact on the fairness of the fight and we agreed that healing while in a fight is easily punishable as you can't really run away far in the Arena.
    Now in the reverse,when you kill someone and you can't heal,you choosed to not have this advantage at the cost of some points in ATT and FAI but on the other hand,you may have more vitality or endurance or whatever stats(except resistance) which gives you an advantage,maybe you hit harder or take more hits.
    However it is true the requirement for Heal is pretty low but doesn't heal a lot. 25% isn't really much.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:02 pm

    vatar5 wrote:I don't take it bad,im saying my opinion bra.
    Also you're reasoning is,I believe,flawed. I'm not going to not use magic because my opponent can't.
    Also when your opponent kills you and heal,you also recover your health entirely. It is not comparable to the invading situation because,well when the invader/host dead,the healing has no impact on the fairness of the fight and we agreed that healing while in a fight is easily punishable as you can't really run away far in the Arena.
    Now in the reverse,when you kill someone and you can't heal,you choosed to not have this advantage at the cost of some points in ATT and FAI but on the other hand,you may have more vitality or endurance or whatever stats(except resistance) which gives you an advantage,maybe you hit harder or take more hits.
    However it is true the requirement for Heal is pretty low but doesn't heal a lot. 25% isn't really much.

    I don't heal because I really do believe that it is just a crutch and say for example I poisened you and reduced your health to 25 HP which was all in my tactic to take you with me and then you heal saving your life, you decide to use poison and the exact same tactic against me only I will die because I don't have a heal in my magic slot and if I need to Heal to win against a person that doesn't have a heal then what does that prove? If he had a disadvantage it clearly means we didn't face each other on equal ground, he can't heal while I can. That's my problem with heal it just makes arena pointless.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:12 pm

    It is fair because for not having the possibility of having health,he may have more health/poise/stamina/AR/scale/etc...yes he will die because he didn't had heal but he may kill you easier because of higher scaling stats or survive the poison longer thanks to higher health.

    Finally,all builds have up and downs,some are more balanced,some aren't but the miracle heal alone is,from my point of view,fair in the Arena.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:23 pm

    But the deal is Using heal takes no sacrafice either you start as a kinght or use other offensive miracles and there you go no sacrafice what's a few points of endurance or a few points of vitaltiy or even a few of both its still an extra what? 300-600 HP maybe even more when you use heal what's the real disadvantege or sacrifice here?


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Knight Alundil on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:25 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But the deal is Using heal takes no sacrafice either you start as a kinght or use other offensive miracles and there you go no sacrafice what's a few points of endurance or a few points of vitaltiy or even a few of both its still an extra what? 300-600 HP maybe even more when you use heal what's the real disadvantege or sacrifice here?

    So what you're saying is that from your point of view it's a no brainer and it's obviously the right choice when it comes to making an arena build but you're choosing not to do it and that's unfair?

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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:28 pm

    With base faith,you don't really heal a lot...
    Also if you're a faith build,the possibility to heal is a pro included in the build.
    +1 what Knight Alundil said


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:31 pm

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:But the deal is Using heal takes no sacrafice either you start as a kinght or use other offensive miracles and there you go no sacrafice what's a few points of endurance or a few points of vitaltiy or even a few of both its still an extra what? 300-600 HP maybe even more when you use heal what's the real disadvantege or sacrifice here?

    So what you're saying is that from your point of view it's a no brainer and it's obviously the right choice when it comes to making an arena build but you're choosing not to do it and that's unfair?

    As I have just stated its an unfair advantage that many players have in arena and since etiquete in arena is extremely questionable I don't want to have an unfair advantage that's why I don't like arena I don't use it becaause of the damn etiquete and the healing doesn't help.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:34 pm

    vatar5 wrote:With base faith,you don't really heal a lot...
    Also if you're a faith build,the possibility to heal is a pro included in the build.
    +1 what Knight Alundil said

    Oh great faith builds don't already have an advantage over my pure mellee no castings build!


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:35 pm

    It kind of sounds like Healing miracles have become the Pyromancy of the arena.

    A tiny stat investment (1-2 attunement slots) and you get a valuable new weapon.

    Add some more and you get a heal that lets you last longer. These are still stat investments and are not fully healing the person unless they have put a lot into faith. Instead of having offensive spells they are using defensive ones. Not to mention they will eventually run out just like a person using Chaos Pyromancy for quick kills will eventually run out.
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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:41 pm

    It is a massive bite in the nuts when you die first see someone heal then kick thir *** the time after you respawn and they respawn back in spam wrath of the gods, heal and you lose purely because of the heal.You expect me to be ok with this when the stat difference is really not changing anythin? I'm not changing my build just to cater to a flawed arena system.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by GkMrBane on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:43 pm

    Two sides to every coin my friends.

    Inequality is mearly a perception.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:45 pm

    And the reason I refuse to revise my build? Because with anyless endurance I can't wear my sexy outfit, that's really it my vanity is my downfall.


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:50 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:It is a massive bite in the nuts when you die first see someone heal then kick thir *** the time after you respawn and they respawn back in spam wrath of the gods, heal and you lose purely because of the heal.You expect me to be ok with this when the stat difference is really not changing anythin? I'm not changing my build just to cater to a flawed arena system.

    Dude,you can't hate a miracle just because of the person who uses it.
    I insist that the heal miracle alone is fair.
    Besides,with your reasoning,I could say that it is unfair that people can cast spells and pyromancy when you can't...

    Edit:And people might say the same thing because a pure melee build kicked their @sses with weapons they can't use or with armor they can't wield without fast/med roll.


    Last edited by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:52 pm

    That stuff can be dodged but as I have said constantly how can I stop you from healing when I'm stuck in a cage after I left you with low health and died in the process?


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:54 pm

    You can kill him first, this scenario you are talking about requires them to have beaten you once.
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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by vatar5 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:55 pm

    Kiva the wanderer wrote:That stuff can be dodged but as I have said constantly how can I stop you from healing when I'm stuck in a cage after I left you with low health and died in the process?

    You can't.

    So what?

    Or you rant because you can't win against your opponent with health >25%?


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by GkMrBane on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:55 pm

    Tolvo wrote:You can kill him first, this scenario you are talking about requires them to have beaten you once.

    LOL!


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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Kiva the wanderer on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:58 pm

    vatar5 wrote:
    Kiva the wanderer wrote:It is a massive bite in the nuts when you die first see someone heal then kick thir *** the time after you respawn and they respawn back in spam wrath of the gods, heal and you lose purely because of the heal.You expect me to be ok with this when the stat difference is really not changing anythin? I'm not changing my build just to cater to a flawed arena system.

    Dude,you can't hate a miracle just because of the person who uses it.
    I insist that the heal miracle alone is fair.
    Besides,with your reasoning,I could say that it is unfair that people can cast spells and pyromancy when you can't...

    And with pyromancy NO sacrafice was used apart from a few attunement points which is taken away from endurance which just means less custoization for your characters appearence and I have no problem with INT builds and FTH builds its only the way heal is used which pisses me off I'm fine if its used during invasions or FFAs or even if arenas rules were a bit different in how fights were carried out, I would have had it as a round based system 3 rounds whoever wins the most of those two wins and what I mean by a best 2 0f 3 is that you get 1 life each round so healing isn't really an issue.


    _________________
    XBL: Kiva N Chips




    Ill be on PS4 at around Christmas time hopefully so my psn tag is "KivaNChips"




    Multiplayer titles and Souls games
    Main games on X360 ATM: Dark Souls, DKS2 (Wont be online though :'c), BF3 and Halo 4.
    Target games on PS4: Killzone: Shadow Fall, Destiny and a next gen souls title?




    games im following
    InFamous, Shadow of the Beast, MGS V, Lords of the fallen, The Order: 1886, The Evil Within (WOO!), Fallout 4, Star Wars battlefront, Kingdom hearts 3, The division, Warhammer MMO, Watch dogs and so much more.




    So many games, so little time (And Money).

    Marino.
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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Marino. on Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:59 pm

    You need 12 Faith and 1 Slot to cast Heal .
    So little investment pretty much every build can use it .
    I dont see what your Problem is .
    Heal is what Second Chance was in Demons and nobody complained about that

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    Tolvo
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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:01 pm

    Simply put, he is giving up on offense to have better defense instead. If you are purely physical your weapon should hit harder than his. If you are a sorcery/pyromancy user you have offensive spells to kill him with. If you are a tank you have better defense than him meaning its less likely you die. If you are mobile enough you can dodge his attacks and ensure that you don't take damage.

    If your toon is not designed for competitive PvP why do you care that his build is?

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    Re: I LOVE THE ARENA!

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