Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

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    Sergeant Soy
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    Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Sergeant Soy on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:06 pm

    Hello! I'm quite excited to be starting this topic, even though it is a little simple. I'm excited because I thought about it on vacation, then clean forgot what I thought! I remember, and it is this: The Furtive Pygmy is called a pygmy because he is short and small compared to all the other lords, and the "demigods" (those people who aren't human that are rather big compared to us, like black and silver knights) The reason he is so short is because he IS human, not a lord. He was furtive simply because he went and hid away for the right time, and stayed out of the business all the other gods were doing. And similarly to how Gwyn had children who were gods, the pygmy had children who were human. Yeah, that's honestly all. I don't know why I thought it was so important, maybe because it shows that the pygmy wasn't a pygmy but simply a human, smaller to everyone else? Maybe because I can't stop posting weird, possibly worthless stuff? And maybe even because I make way too long posts, and treat posting like a writing assignment with, say, a 1000 words necessary? Maybe.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Knight Alundil on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:12 pm

    Good thoughts man. The idea that he's a "pygmy" only in comparison to the gods never struck me before but from now on that's pretty much the way i'm going to look at it.

    +1 for you!

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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Sergeant Soy on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:17 pm

    Thanks, I appreciate it. I got the idea because a lot of early history (age of ancients) involves the gods, and humans are nearly nowhere to be found. So, the gods would write the history, and regard the first human as a pygmy. Wait a minute... I just had an amazing idea! As the flames began to fade, the gods grew weaker, yet the humans showed no signs of weakening, and their culture, power, and influence kept increasing, and wouldn't stop no matter what. It's inevitable for them to survive and thrive eventually; Like the Dark. Man, that's amazing. I literally did just think up that! big grin


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by skarekrow13 on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:53 pm

    Sergeant Soy, you're in the right place big grin

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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:00 pm

    Sergeant Soy wrote:Hello! I'm quite excited to be starting this topic, even though it is a little simple. I'm excited because I thought about it on vacation, then clean forgot what I thought! I remember, and it is this: The Furtive Pygmy is called a pygmy because he is short and small compared to all the other lords, and the "demigods" (those people who aren't human that are rather big compared to us, like black and silver knights) The reason he is so short is because he IS human, not a lord. He was furtive simply because he went and hid away for the right time, and stayed out of the business all the other gods were doing. And similarly to how Gwyn had children who were gods, the pygmy had children who were human. Yeah, that's honestly all. I don't know why I thought it was so important, maybe because it shows that the pygmy wasn't a pygmy but simply a human, smaller to everyone else? Maybe because I can't stop posting weird, possibly worthless stuff? And maybe even because I make way too long posts, and treat posting like a writing assignment with, say, a 1000 words necessary? Maybe.


    One key thing to note is the Tomb of the Giants and the only
    race of “Giants” we see in the game. I.e the 2 giants in Sen’s Fortress, the
    Giant Blacksmith, and Gough. It may seem as if Gwyn and the others are bigger
    but Gywn and his group I believe come from the same pool as the Pygmy. With
    that being said, they were all more than likely called Pygmys yet FromSoft decided to not name the Pygmy who found the
    Dark Soul in the intro. Thus, to differentiate him from the other Pygmys they
    call him the Furtive Pygmy. Just
    something to think about =)



    *Edit: The “gods” grow weaker as the flames fade due to
    their using of the power of the Lord Souls. The Dark Soul grows stronger due to the fact
    it is a bi-product of the flame instead of coming directly from it. For
    example, a fire gives off a shadow, the
    lower the fire goes the stronger that shadow becomes. Hence, why the Dark Soul
    looks so small in the beginning intro.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by CaligoIllioneus on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:08 pm

    I think Gwyn/Ornstein/Silver Knight/Black Knight size was what they considered "normal" size, above that were the giants, and below where the humans. So I agree with the OP, yes.
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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:20 pm

    CaligoIllioneus wrote:I think Gwyn/Ornstein/Silver Knight/Black Knight size was what they considered "normal" size, above that were the giants, and below where the humans. So I agree with the OP, yes.



    I don’t think the size of the enemies you fight makes much
    of a difference to be honest… But one of your examples Ornstien, we see when he
    absorbs the power of his buddy Smough he increases in size. However, he’s huge
    compared to Gwyn, hence why I say I don’t believe size matters too much. On
    that note, it’s not hard to imagine that
    Gwyn, the holder of the Ultimate Soul grew a little bit when he obtained his
    Lord Soul. Also, just because something is called a Pygmy doesn’t mean it
    changes what it is. For example, the Pygmies of Africa are still considered
    human. Gywn and his buddies obtained their “god” status from the power they
    obtained from the Lord Souls.

    Edit... Freaking dyslexia lol. What I was meaning to say with my Pygmy comment was.... Normal Size = Human Small Size=Human=Pygmy. Size doesn't change what you are. As for the Giants that is the name of their race, they were named after their size.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Acarnatia on Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:53 pm

    This actually had occurred to me as well. I think there's not enough information with just that to make a decisive conclusion, though.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Shkar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:55 am

    If, by your resoning, the pymy was the first human, then where did he come from and how did he have children?


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by samster628 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:59 am

    I beleve that the pigmys power only grows as the others power wanes thus as has been stated he didnt do much in the age of ancients. prehaps power makes you grow in size and lack of it causes you to shrink or maybe the lords can change their size at will. I dont think humans are the pigmys childeren as such but it is a certanty that he made them what they are - ie bound to humanity in some way.
    Would say more but for spoilers i cant be bothered with boxing right now. Also AotA DLC out in europe hooray. Speaking of the DLC it costs 10 quid but only cantains 100kb Thats only 100 bytes to the penny! Just a point.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Shkar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:38 am

    samster628 wrote:I beleve that the pigmys power only grows as the others power wanes thus as has been stated he didnt do much in the age of ancients. prehaps power makes you grow in size and lack of it causes you to shrink or maybe the lords can change their size at will. I dont think humans are the pigmys childeren as such but it is a certanty that he made them what they are - ie bound to humanity in some way.
    Would say more but for spoilers i cant be bothered with boxing right now. Also AotA DLC out in europe hooray. Speaking of the DLC it costs 10 quid but only cantains 100kb Thats only 100 bytes to the penny! Just a point.

    How short is this DLC that it's only 1/10th of a GB?


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by skarekrow13 on Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:05 am

    The DLC is actually Patch 1.06. The 100kb file is just an unlock key. Great decision on From's part since most of us (including me) had the patch already downloaded. I was thinking, "great, I'll need to wait before I can play the DLC while it downloads." Not an issue

    EDIT: Or good decision on the part of whoever made it.

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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:42 pm

    samster628 wrote:I beleve that the pigmys power only grows as the others power wanes thus as has been stated he didnt do much in the age of ancients. prehaps power makes you grow in size and lack of it causes you to shrink or maybe the lords can change their size at will. I dont think humans are the pigmys childeren as such but it is a certanty that he made them what they are - ie bound to humanity in some way.
    Would say more but for spoilers i cant be bothered with boxing right now. Also AotA DLC out in europe hooray. Speaking of the DLC it costs 10 quid but only cantains 100kb Thats only 100 bytes to the penny! Just a point.


    In the intro it says “Then, from the Dark, They
    came
    ” and while it’s saying this it shows human-esue figures standing
    up. Then it goes on to say that “and found the Souls of Lords
    within the flame.”
    All of these beings sprung up from the Shadow of
    the first flame. Weather he was labeled the pygmy in the legend, or he was
    known as the Pygmy as soon as they all got up and started heading towards the
    flame could be disputed but in the end I think the only thing that matters is
    the fact that “they” all came from the same pool. Gywn and his group are human,
    only they are humans which possess the Lord Souls. I think that once they were
    considered “gods” they use the word “human” to show that they have transcended
    that label and used it as a cut down. Heck, even Ciarian when you attack her
    says “Humans, always taking what you please…” Even she believes herself better
    than the Human Label. Which would also
    lead me to believe they (Gywn and his folks) are the ones who labeled the finder
    of the Dark Soul a Pygmy, a smaller being of lesser value to them. When you
    fight Gwyn, you see he has the same markings over his heart as any normal Human
    Undead that had gone hollow has. That’s not saying that only Humans can be
    Undead (we see the Undead Dragon, etc), I’m saying they are similar looking. Also,
    Qualaana’s Dialouge she references the Lord Soul holders as Primeval….. Manus
    is known as a Primeval Human….And the Serpents are called the Primordial.. I
    think there is a distinct reason they use these 2 words, as they both have
    slightly different meanings….The Serpents have human-like faces. Just something
    to think about.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Raem on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:24 pm

    In the intro it says “Then, from the Dark, They
    came
    ” and while it’s saying this it shows human-esue figures standing
    up. [...] in the end I think the only thing that matters is
    the fact that “they” all came from the same pool. Gywn and his group are human,
    only they are humans which possess the Lord Souls.

    This is also what I think particulary only that I don't think that the original pool were humans but The Hollows.
    The humanoid figures are very thin and move without a particular direction und staggering and stumbeling towards the flame just like the Hollows.
    Which would explain why everything is getting weaker as the flames fades: The Lord Souls faint and the gods disappear/ go hollow as even Gwyn goes hollow.
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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Shkar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:40 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:
    samster628 wrote:I beleve that the pigmys power only grows as the others power wanes thus as has been stated he didnt do much in the age of ancients. prehaps power makes you grow in size and lack of it causes you to shrink or maybe the lords can change their size at will. I dont think humans are the pigmys childeren as such but it is a certanty that he made them what they are - ie bound to humanity in some way.
    Would say more but for spoilers i cant be bothered with boxing right now. Also AotA DLC out in europe hooray. Speaking of the DLC it costs 10 quid but only cantains 100kb Thats only 100 bytes to the penny! Just a point.


    In the intro it says “Then, from the Dark, They
    came
    ” and while it’s saying this it shows human-esue figures standing
    up. Then it goes on to say that “and found the Souls of Lords
    within the flame.”
    All of these beings sprung up from the Shadow of
    the first flame. Weather he was labeled the pygmy in the legend, or he was
    known as the Pygmy as soon as they all got up and started heading towards the
    flame could be disputed but in the end I think the only thing that matters is
    the fact that “they” all came from the same pool. Gywn and his group are human,
    only they are humans which possess the Lord Souls. I think that once they were
    considered “gods” they use the word “human” to show that they have transcended
    that label and used it as a cut down. Heck, even Ciarian when you attack her
    says “Humans, always taking what you please…” Even she believes herself better
    than the Human Label. Which would also
    lead me to believe they (Gywn and his folks) are the ones who labeled the finder
    of the Dark Soul a Pygmy, a smaller being of lesser value to them. When you
    fight Gwyn, you see he has the same markings over his heart as any normal Human
    Undead that had gone hollow has. That’s not saying that only Humans can be
    Undead (we see the Undead Dragon, etc), I’m saying they are similar looking. Also,
    Qualaana’s Dialouge she references the Lord Soul holders as Primeval….. Manus
    is known as a Primeval Human….And the Serpents are called the Primordial.. I
    think there is a distinct reason they use these 2 words, as they both have
    slightly different meanings….The Serpents have human-like faces. Just something
    to think about.

    There is a quote that makes the rounds every so often of the Dircetor saying that the qitches are, in fact, not human.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:56 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Deathsitexxi wrote:
    samster628 wrote:I beleve that the pigmys power only grows as the others power wanes thus as has been stated he didnt do much in the age of ancients. prehaps power makes you grow in size and lack of it causes you to shrink or maybe the lords can change their size at will. I dont think humans are the pigmys childeren as such but it is a certanty that he made them what they are - ie bound to humanity in some way.
    Would say more but for spoilers i cant be bothered with boxing right now. Also AotA DLC out in europe hooray. Speaking of the DLC it costs 10 quid but only cantains 100kb Thats only 100 bytes to the penny! Just a point.


    In the intro it says “Then, from the Dark, They
    came
    ” and while it’s saying this it shows human-esue figures standing
    up. Then it goes on to say that “and found the Souls of Lords
    within the flame.”
    All of these beings sprung up from the Shadow of
    the first flame. Weather he was labeled the pygmy in the legend, or he was
    known as the Pygmy as soon as they all got up and started heading towards the
    flame could be disputed but in the end I think the only thing that matters is
    the fact that “they” all came from the same pool. Gywn and his group are human,
    only they are humans which possess the Lord Souls. I think that once they were
    considered “gods” they use the word “human” to show that they have transcended
    that label and used it as a cut down. Heck, even Ciarian when you attack her
    says “Humans, always taking what you please…” Even she believes herself better
    than the Human Label. Which would also
    lead me to believe they (Gywn and his folks) are the ones who labeled the finder
    of the Dark Soul a Pygmy, a smaller being of lesser value to them. When you
    fight Gwyn, you see he has the same markings over his heart as any normal Human
    Undead that had gone hollow has. That’s not saying that only Humans can be
    Undead (we see the Undead Dragon, etc), I’m saying they are similar looking. Also,
    Qualaana’s Dialouge she references the Lord Soul holders as Primeval….. Manus
    is known as a Primeval Human….And the Serpents are called the Primordial.. I
    think there is a distinct reason they use these 2 words, as they both have
    slightly different meanings….The Serpents have human-like faces. Just something
    to think about.

    There is a quote that makes the rounds every so often of the Dircetor saying that the qitches are, in fact, not human.



    There have been so many articles that have been
    mistranslated that unless I actually read it and trusted the source I don’t
    know how far I’d push them saying that lol. I can see them saying the witches
    are no longer human… which would make sense seeing them in their current state.
    Otherwise though… I’m skeptical until I actually see it XD. And no I’m not
    saying you’re lying at all, I’ve just been burned by miss translated articles
    one to many times.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Shkar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:06 pm

    Deathsitexxi wrote:

    There have been so many articles that have been
    mistranslated that unless I actually read it and trusted the source I don’t
    know how far I’d push them saying that lol. I can see them saying the witches
    are no longer human… which would make sense seeing them in their current state.
    Otherwise though… I’m skeptical until I actually see it XD. And no I’m not
    saying you’re lying at all, I’ve just been burned by miss translated articles
    one to many times.

    Unless they mistranslated an entire portion of interview, I find it unlikely that they did that.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:09 pm

    Shkar wrote:
    Deathsitexxi wrote:

    There have been so many articles that have been
    mistranslated that unless I actually read it and trusted the source I don’t
    know how far I’d push them saying that lol. I can see them saying the witches
    are no longer human… which would make sense seeing them in their current state.
    Otherwise though… I’m skeptical until I actually see it XD. And no I’m not
    saying you’re lying at all, I’ve just been burned by miss translated articles
    one to many times.

    Unless they mistranslated an entire portion of interview, I find it unlikely that they did that.

    They just recently mistranslated his entire meaning about an "easy mode"... I wouldn't put it past them lol. On this subject... why the hell did I learn Farsi instead of Japanese.... uggggg


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    Just a thought...

    Post by moaiguy42 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:25 am

    Just a thought, but seeing as how the pygmy, being as furtive as he is, went into hiding and otherwise has no blatantly visible role in the story as of yet... I'm getting off topic.

    My point is, what if he had a behind-the-scenes role/backseat role to the occultist plot? Being otherwise unnoticed by the "main" lords and being so "easily forgotten" would've given an absolute motive to have been involved.

    Keep in mind this is all just speculation that I have absolutely no way to corroborate. :mask-averice:
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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by samster628 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:11 pm

    Play the DLC and then we can all talk about the pigmy. Also i agree with the cat it was a good idea to have just the unlock key as it ment i had to only wait about 5 minutes to play the DLC. Its quite long but hard for low level charachters as you have to kill bosses to unlock new areas.

    I think all humans were like hollows until they got the lord sould. Gwyn and co called themselves "Gods". To me thats fair 'nuf. They are more powerful than common humans any they arnt forcing people to worship them. or maybe i'm just a sheep.


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    Re: Furtive Pygmy; Normal to us, short to them

    Post by THE AXE MURDERER on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:58 pm

    The fact that black knights and silver knights are all significantly taller than the player, would make me believe that they are a different species, maybe different race than humans.


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