Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

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    Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:55 am

    Hello again,

    Wanted to try out a heavier build without falling back on the traditional tools of trade for such a build. In the past I've mostly relied on faster weapons, but I wanted to try something different this time. The Black Knight Greatsword, to be more specific. (Screw subtlety)

    Cardinal Blademaster

    A few notes:
    - Against opponents with heavier weapons, I will sacrifice my fast roll for the +40 Poise from the Wolf Ring, pushing my Poise to exactly 76.

    - Zweihander is for landsknechts and the Greatsword is for Tarkus. I don't particularly care for the former, and I am not worthy to wield the latter. silly

    - Anything that drastically deviates from the red and black colour scheme will be shunned.

    - I will mostly two-hand my weapon, as the Black Knight Greatsword is actually surprisingly decent as a shield anyway. Dark Hand is for backup and because it will probably look pretty damn cool along with the sword.

    - Using Thorolund Talisman to cast Gravelord miracles. 'sup Way of White?


    As always, feedback is appreciated.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:05 am

    The build is not bad or anything, however, do keep in mind even dex weapons can stun you, so you'll be at an disadvantage with that weapon and that armor. If you know when to attack, then it's all good, but just keep that in mind. If the set is not too important i would however advice changing atleast some of it for more poise.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:09 am

    According to the wiki, 36 poise is enough to resist everything up to one-handed blunts, axes and greatswords. If I need more poise, I will switch out Havel's Ring for the Wolf's Ring to get 76 poise, enough to resist everything up to two-handed ultra great swords. I don't know exactly how this system works in practice, but in theory that should be enough against more or less all R1 attacks, and most R2 attacks as well. (Assuming I'm not stunlocked. Easier said than done, I know)

    The set is the most important feature of the build, since I'll just get depressed with a character if I don't like how they look, or if they use too many pieces (3+) of an existing armour set. silly
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:17 am

    I know what you mean. I've quit NG++ characters because i hated the face. Look Skyward

    As for poise, i don't know how it works, but i know what i've experienced. I mainly play with heavy armor characters, and if a katana wielding guy can stun me at 48 poise on his second hit, then he's either hacking or the poise on the wiki is wrong. Either way, i just wanted to share my experience. I might as well point it out right now that whenever i offer advice it's based on experience, and never on what i read or what the majority faced.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:20 am

    I like the BKGS I made my first STR build ever the other day and BOOM that thing hits like a tank with a 120mm Cannon.....


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:26 am

    Mr. Tart wrote:I know what you mean. I've quit NG++ characters because i hated the face.

    As
    for poise, i don't know how it works, but i know what i've experienced.
    I mainly play with heavy armor characters, and if a katana wielding guy
    can stun me at 48 poise on his second hit, then he's either hacking or
    the poise on the wiki is wrong. Either way, i just wanted to share my
    experience. I might as well point it out right now that whenever i offer
    advice it's based on experience, and never on what i read or what the
    majority faced.
    Poise is based on a meter, much like stamina is. If you have 48 poise, and the guy with the katana attacks you twice in a row two-handed, he will have hit you for a total of 62 poise, thus stunning you.

    I have considered going for a Gravelord Sword instead of the Black Knight Greatsword...Or at the very least keeping it as an inventory-stored backup weapon. Might use that against the more speedy enemies out there. It's not fast-fast, but it's certainly faster than the metal tree that is the BKGS.

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:I like the BKGS I made my first STR build ever
    the other day and BOOM that thing hits like a tank with a 120mm
    Cannon.....
    Do you have a link to that build? Seeing other BKGS builds might be helpful to me.

    And yes, the BKGS is a beast. I just hope I'll be able to get it in the Parish. Would be a pain to wait until the Kiln to acquire it.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:36 am

    Thing is, he was not twohanding it. Shrug

    I'm not the best it builds, but i gave it a go:
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3807363995612803

    I know TWoP probably isn't a big favorite, but it gives for a great start up with that weapon. You'll also lose your fast roll, but yeah. Perhaps atleast it helps you somewhat with your build.



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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:36 am

    Mr. Tart wrote:Thing is, he was not twohanding it.

    I'm not the best it builds, but i gave it a go:
    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=3807363995612803

    I know TWoP probably isn't a big favorite, but it gives for a great start up with that weapon. You'll also lose your fast roll, but yeah. Perhaps atleast it helps you somewhat with your build.


    Hm, that's odd. No idea how he could stun you in two hits with a katana if he wasn't two-handing it. Mysterious.

    As for the suggested changes to my build; I like them! I made a few minor changes to your suggested version though. 34 strength and 20 dexterity seemed kind of redundant, as the damage two extra points to each adds is negligible at best. Figured those four points would be better spent in attunement.

    Thank you for your suggestions, and keeping with the theme of the build with those suggestions

    I've heard TWoP has kind of a bad reputation in PVP, but I'm not sure if I understand why. Is it because it's generally used alongside Wrath of the Gods for one of the most annoying combos ever?
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:38 am

    I would assume that to be the case. However, you shouldn't get so much hate on it if you don't use it in duels. As said though, it's very effective with the BKGS, especially if facing gankers. Of course, it also scares most people away, which is good if you're on low health. big grin


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:45 am

    I prefer pure melee combat when doing proper duelling, so that shouldn't be much of a problem for me. happy

    The slightly updated version:
    http://tinyurl.com/8dtmx2b

    Now that it's a knight, I guess I could call it a "Knight-Cardinal" instead. silly
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:33 am

    I would remove the gravelord sword dance for something else. Gravlord greatsword dance is obviously just a better version with 2 uses. That should be enough unless you plan on spamming it or you plan on doing really long duels. Either way, removing the gravelord sword dance gives you one slot to use for something much better, or just a couple of extra stats for something else.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:04 am

    Mr. Tart wrote:I would remove the gravelord sword dance for something else. Gravlord greatsword dance is obviously just a better version with 2 uses. That should be enough unless you plan on spamming it or you plan on doing really long duels. Either way, removing the gravelord sword dance gives you one slot to use for something much better, or just a couple of extra stats for something else.
    Hm, good point, good point.

    I decided to replace Gravelord Sword Dance with Emit Force. I've seen it in action in a few videos, and it seems that it can do pretty well if used right. I want to try it out, in any case.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by RANT on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:22 am

    i like your build, it all depends on your style if your build is gonna succeed. here's mine if it helps http://tinyurl.com/8mokpc6 you dont need any sort of magic as long as you have a bow/xbow.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:05 pm

    I don't know if my playstyle will do my build justice, but I suppose I won't know before I actually try it out. (I arguably don't even have a PVP playstyle yet, since I haven't really fought a lot of real people yet)

    I like your build too. Similar to mine, but maintaing that elusive fast roll. I personally like having 2-3 caster slots available though. Even if this particular build doesn't rely on them all that much, I might want to create a different build later where having come casting slots might come in handy.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by RANT on Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:14 pm

    well if you dont have a style then the bow might be your style once you try it, it pressures you r opponent into making a mistake if you use poison arrows, its also good for that last hit since people will turtle or just keep doging which is really easy to do against str weapons. it has saved my *** so many times, its specially good when they sytart fishing since they cant trafe bs you with a bow, just wait till theyre right next to you or right before they attack and then realease your arrows on up on their faces for the win. a rapier works kinda like the bow since it also allows you to get that last hit in for the win. just try it and see if you like it.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:44 pm

    Ahhh, my Str Arena build, the Guardian Demon: http://tinyurl.com/92k2twn

    It will be an interesting buld to play, but I will definitely enjoy it.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:49 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:well if you dont have a style then the bow might be your style once you try it, it pressures you r opponent into making a mistake if you use poison arrows, its also good for that last hit since people will turtle or just keep doging which is really easy to do against str weapons. it has saved my *** so many times, its specially good when they sytart fishing since they cant trafe bs you with a bow, just wait till theyre right next to you or right before they attack and then realease your arrows on up on their faces for the win. a rapier works kinda like the bow since it also allows you to get that last hit in for the win. just try it and see if you like it.
    How much damage do you generally deal with your Composite Bow on the build you posted? If the poison is the main factor rather than arrow damage, wouldn't Poison Throwing Knives be able to fill the same role? If the damage is your reason for using it, would an item like Black Firebombs be able to fulfil the same role?

    From my experience in PVE, I already know rapiers are great. Velka's Rapier in particular is a beast. I wanted to do something completely different from previous builds this time around, however. My playstyle in the few serious PVP matches I've fought has generally been to wait for - or create - an appropriate opening, and then strike without extending myself too far. (No turtling, however.)

    I don't know if that's appropriate for a build like mine, or if a more aggressive approach is recommended.

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:Ahhh, my Str Arena build, the Guardian Demon: http://tinyurl.com/92k2twn

    It will be an interesting buld to play, but I will definitely enjoy it.
    Interesting build. Seems like it will look pretty good too, which is always a plus.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:55 pm

    Idk the reasons for Rant not using throwing... etc etc

    But just felt like pointing out, an arrow can sometimes prove more of a challenge when faced against than a firebomb or throwing knife, as you can quickly switch and shot as to punch someone for their mistake, while firebombs and throwing knifes can be used to punish, it seems so much easier with an bow. Having said that, i shall return into the shadows and look at this discussion.

    Please continue. Bow


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by RANT on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:56 pm

    Rarayn wrote:
    RantFromRant wrote:well if you dont have a style then the bow might be your style once you try it, it pressures you r opponent into making a mistake if you use poison arrows, its also good for that last hit since people will turtle or just keep doging which is really easy to do against str weapons. it has saved my *** so many times, its specially good when they sytart fishing since they cant trafe bs you with a bow, just wait till theyre right next to you or right before they attack and then realease your arrows on up on their faces for the win. a rapier works kinda like the bow since it also allows you to get that last hit in for the win. just try it and see if you like it.
    How much damage do you generally deal with your Composite Bow on the build you posted? If the poison is the main factor rather than arrow damage, wouldn't Poison Throwing Knives be able to fill the same role? If the damage is your reason for using it, would an item like Black Firebombs be able to fulfil the same role?

    From my experience in PVE, I already know rapiers are great. Velka's Rapier in particular is a beast. I wanted to do something completely different from previous builds this time around, however. My playstyle in the few serious PVP matches I've fought has generally been to wait for - or create - an appropriate opening, and then strike without extending myself too far. (No turtling, however.)

    I don't know if that's appropriate for a build like mine, or if a more aggressive approach is recommended.

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:Ahhh, my Str Arena build, the Guardian Demon: http://tinyurl.com/92k2twn

    It will be an interesting buld to play, but I will definitely enjoy it.
    Interesting build. Seems like it will look pretty good too, which is always a plus.

    its both chip damage and poison damage, it does around 200 or less per hit but a bunch of those add up and will win the fight for you a lot of times.

    @amos i like that build but since im not buying the dlc im gonna miss on the guardian and gough's armor which kinda sucks. heres mine http://tinyurl.com/8otfxfq its gonna be awesome since i have seen tons of no poise after the patch.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by RANT on Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:58 pm

    Mr. Tart wrote:Idk the reasons for Rant not using throwing... etc etc

    But just felt like pointing out, an arrow can sometimes prove more of a challenge when faced against than a firebomb or throwing knife, as you can quickly switch and shot as to punch someone for their mistake, while firebombs and throwing knifes can be used to punish, it seems so much easier with an bow. Having said that, i shall return into the shadows and look at this discussion.

    Please continue.

    lol pretty much what he said, you gotta really be new to pvp to get hit with a fire bomb or a poison knive since theyre SO slow(the animation)


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:00 pm

    @Rant

    I hear you like STR weapons...

    http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?c=4261396455944609

    Look at them! Look at them! Can you truly live without that?


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by RANT on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:05 pm

    but....only one of them is a str weapon, i love that axe but hopefully people can farm it for me and give it to me if the people that dont get the dlc can still use the new weapons(at least i hope so)


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:16 pm

    Only one is a real STR weapon, but the others benefit from strength either way, and i believe the Abyss Greatsword atleast deserves to be considered part STR weapon. As for that axe, look at it dude! Look at it! I mean, dude, look at it! Duuuuuuuuuuude! + some more bosses and an arena, while i've understood it's not of much interest to you, think of it atleast. winking

    Oh and bad news on that part i believe. I think someone on the topic said that dropped DLC items cannot be picked up? I can't confirm it for sure as i'm unsure, but keep that in mind. :/

    Edit: BY NONE DLC PLAYERS THAT IS.


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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Rarayn on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:25 pm

    I took some of Rant's suggestions. Here's yet another version of the build: http://tinyurl.com/9khz9zq

    - No magic this time. While TWoP is indeed good with the main weapon, I don't think it was worth that many stat points. I didn't really *need* the other spells I had either, even if the Gravelord Sword Dance miracles would have gone nicely with the theme of the build.

    - Spellcasting stat points added to Vitality. I have a decent amount of health now.

    - Added a Composite Bow. Whether or not I'll keep it depends on whether or not I figure out how to use it properly in the middle of combat.
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    Re: Cardinal Blademaster - SL 100 STR Build

    Post by Mr. Tart on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:29 pm

    The build seems to be getting closer to its finally state, that's for sure. As for finding your playstyle, it may be hard, but the best way to find it out is making a jack of all trades and using most weapons, see which one you like the best and which one you handle the best and then compromise. That's about it, but yeah, the build seems better, and i have no more input on it atm so keep it going and gl with it! Sun


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