Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Share
    avatar
    Deathsitexxi
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 295
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-09-07

    Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:01 pm

    Aestus
    Estus Latin for Heat- Estus Flask holds the heat of the Bonfires for life restoration.
    The Bonfires help ease the undead curse by allowing undead to maintain their
    sanity and uses its bottled heat to keep from dying again. Therefore, assisting
    anyone smart enough from going hollow, but, we see hollows using it themselves
    for its life sustaining purposes only. Kindling gives you more Estus Flasks,
    therefore Kindling increases your chances of not becoming a hollow. . .






    It
    seems as if lighting Bonfires is a right reserved only for Firekeepers. Let me
    explain..






    Rite of
    Kindling:



    This secret rite allows bonfires to be
    bolstered further with Kindling,
    so that even more Estus can be collected.



    Kindling was a sacred rite passed down among clerics,
    but all Undead can imitate the process in the same manner
    that they restore their Hollowing with humanity.
    How peculiar that humans had found little use for humanity until they
    turned Undead.



    I think
    originally Fromsoft had planned to not let you Kindle at all until you received
    this item. The whole “all Undead can imitate the process in the same manner”
    means that an Undead can receive the Rite of Kindling and Kindle bonfires in
    the same manner. Kindle in this sense only means to strengthen a flame that is
    already burning. Yes, from a dictionaries definitions it can mean to light a
    fire as well..However, seeing as for something to be “bolstered further” it has
    to exist in the first place we can assume Kindling means what I previously mentioned,
    to strengthen a fire. I think by changing their minds and letting us kindle
    from the beginning Fromsoft has confused a lot of people as to what a firekeeper
    really is and what they do. A firekeeper keeps a bonfire lit. When a firekeeper
    dies . . .






    Estus
    Flask:



    The Undead treasure these dull green flasks.
    Fill with Estus at
    [i]bonfire.
    Fills HP.[/i]


    The Estus Flasks are linked to the Fire
    Keepers. The Dark Tales also make reference:



    An emerald flask, from the Keeper's soul
    She lives to protect the flame,
    And dies to protect it further



    . . .
    the bonfire goes with them. . But what do they mean by “dies to protect it
    further”? They are most likely saying. .
    . protecting it further by making others unable to use it, because no one but a
    Firekeeper can light the bonfires. So how does one become a Firekeeper. . .
    Well first of all for all we know all the Firekeepers are female from their
    item descriptions. . . Also, the ones we do get to see we know have some kind
    of deformity or suffer greatly. It is well known that women in general have a
    higher thresh- hold when it comes to pain. And these women while they may seem
    physically weak, with exception to the Darkmoon Knightess, are obviously
    suffering a great deal of pain. So what is the difference between the others
    and the Darkmoon Knightess?






    Brass
    Set:



    Helm of the Darkmoon Knightess,
    Fire Keeper of Anor Londo.



    After becoming Undead, she visited the Dark
    Sun Gwyndolin at the Mausoleum of the Spiral
    Depths, became a Blade of Darkmoon,
    and assumed the flame-keeping duty. She
    received this helm, which hides her hideous
    form and helps her hunt the guilty.



    So it seems she chose to become a
    Firekeeper. Interesting to note, the Darkmoon Knightess is refered to as Madien
    Knight in the credits.. Also, from what I am seeing one must also be Undead. .
    . However, I cannot confirm because I do not know if the Chaos Daughter is
    Undead or not.. Reading the first sentence in this paragraph again begs the
    question. . . Where the others forced to become firekeepers? The answer is quite ambiguous.


    Ash Maiden Firekeeper Soul:


    Soul of the Ash Maiden,
    Fire Keeper of Firelink Shrine.



    A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity,
    and held within their bosoms, below just a
    thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity
    that writhe and squirm.
    Was the Ash Maiden locked in this dark prison
    for some transgression, or by her own will?



    So if one can chose to become a firekeeper, then you could say that one
    could be forced to become a firekeeper. . . With the Ash Maiden’s blood stained
    skirt set it seems as if she may have been forced….


    Blood-Stained Skirt:


    Worn by the Fire Keeper at Firelink Shrine.


    It is thought to have once been the white
    skirt of a maiden, but its true origin
    is lost in patches of blood. Perhaps its
    former wearer was maimed to prevent escape?



    We get to see that she once roamed around in the intro during the very end.
    She is kneeling over a seemingly dead body that is wearing a Knight’s Set and she
    seems to be gathering embers that are drifting away from his body (humanity?).
    Maybe this is why she was maimed, if she was seen doing this and the Darksign
    was spreading she could be labeled a “witch” or a “heretic”. They would have
    believed she was spreading the Darksign.


    So to
    continue, Bonfires when rested at restore life, burn humanity to kindle, burn
    humanity to reverse hollow-ment and teleport you to other bonfires. Bonfires
    are made up of . . .






    Homeward
    Bone:



    Bone fragment reduced to white ash.
    Return to last bonfire used for resting.



    Bonfires are fueled by the bones of the Undead.
    In rare cases, the strong urge of their previous owner's
    to seek bonfires enchants their bones with a homeward instinct.



    . . .the
    bones of the Undead. The reason the Bonfires are fueled by the bones of the
    Undead (speculation) is because this was the original way of extracting humanity
    from their bodies. A sacrifice type of offering, also if more humans that were
    not Undead were around they may have been attempting to rid the world of the
    Undead “plague”. The sprites were later
    discovered (by the Undead) as the flame grew weaker and they presented
    themselves.






    Going back
    to the Darkmoon Knightess. She has a dialogue that goes against a lot of what
    we have talked about.






    Darkmoon
    Knightess:



    The bonfire attended by the Keepers
    are special.
    They are linked to one another, and their flames never die.
    Yet never shall the Keepers of these flames meet.






    She says “their flames never die”
    and I think she’s saying their flames never die . . . while the firekeeper is
    alive. . . She also suggests that the actual bonfires attended by the keepers
    are themselves special. Maybe meaning the bonfires we light are not special.



    So what do we know about the player character. Well, it can be male or
    female, it can light and kindle bonfires. Also, it can collect large amounts of
    humanity similar to a firekeeper. None of this proves that the player character
    is a Firekeeper. As a matter of fact, from the Darkmoon Knightess suggesting
    that the actual bonfires attended by the firekeepers are special pretty much
    proves the opposite. That’s why if we kill a firekeeper we can’t just relight
    the flame. In addition the last thing the Darkmoon Knightess tells us is “never
    shall the Keepers of these flames meet”, and yet there you are, meeting them
    all. However, our analysis does suggest the player character could have some
    connection with the firekeepers, and maybe that connection is only the fact
    they are all Undead.


    So, This analysis ends with a big ????? This may be one answer we just can’t
    get other than extrapolating and speculating. If any of you have any
    information I may have missed please let me know otherwise happy hunting!


    Items
    and dialogue I looked at to come up with this:






    All
    Firekeepers Souls



    Brass
    Set



    Dingy
    Set



    Humanity


    Dark
    Souls Intro



    Homeward
    Bone



    Rite of
    Kindling



    Estus
    Flask



    Darkmoon
    Knightess Dialogue





    Ash
    Maiden Dialogue

    Chaos
    Daughter Dialogue


    _________________
    If i could choose to become any animal it would defiantly be a jackass. So that i could fit in with the crowd.
    avatar
    Sir Mandred
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 19
    Reputation : 6
    Join date : 2012-10-19

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by Sir Mandred on Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:16 pm

    It is likely that the Firekeepers have a duty to fuel the flames and keep the fires burning, much like the Candle Maiden had a similar charge in Demon's Souls. As far as i understand, towards the timeline that Dark Souls takes place in, undead are being coralled to a variety of prisons and then used to fan the flames once they go hollow. This is most likely a task that the Black Knights have been charged with, either via necessity or some other motivation.






    Its very clear though that undead carrying the Dark Sign do not go hollow (which could be said of the player) and as thus we also need to seperate the idea of "undead" and "chosen undead" in this process. Its thus likely that the fires are kept as a means to combat the spread of the Abyss and in this case the art of kindling (conviniently a power that was once possessed by Nito...) is a means to fan the flames further by having a cleric maiden perform the rite.

    In either case, there is a similar deal of deception that was used in Latria as well by King Jeremiah. A number of hollowed subjects of his kingdom were imprisoned in the dungeons, then ascended into the towers and consumed to fuel his slowly decaying heart. If we take this by a thought, its most likely that Lordran is also on life support in a similar way, but im fairly certain Gwyn found a way. Linking the fires within the Kiln extends the powers of the flame and instead of his aims being antagonistic, im fairly certain that Gwyn had nothing but the best of his intentions in mind when he journeyed to the Kiln, all form of life is corrupted when they lose their Soul.

    So Kaathe was twisting the truth, leaving Lordran in the dark would usher nothing else but a second Oolacile, so its vital that the bonfires are protected, no matter the cost.
    avatar
    DoughGuy
    Duke's Archivist
    Duke's Archivist

    Posts : 11862
    Reputation : 319
    Join date : 2012-02-29
    Age : 23
    Location : The Bakery of Souls, Sydney

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by DoughGuy on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:53 pm

    "Its very clear though that undead carrying the Dark Sign do not go hollow"
    Look at the eyes of the insane hollows in the asylum and New londo. They clearly carry the dark sign.


    _________________
    There's more to them - Want to know why your favourite NPC is in lordran? Find out here.
    Farewell to my Noble Knights, while we lived we were mighty. May we meet again in the next game.
    The post that started the legend XD
    avatar
    Deathsitexxi
    Addicted
    Addicted

    Posts : 295
    Reputation : 12
    Join date : 2012-09-07

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:08 pm

    Sir Mandred wrote:It is likely that the Firekeepers have a duty to fuel the flames and keep the fires burning, much like the Candle Maiden had a similar charge in Demon's Souls. As far as i understand, towards the timeline that Dark Souls takes place in, undead are being coralled to a variety of prisons and then used to fan the flames once they go hollow. This is most likely a task that the Black Knights have been charged with, either via necessity or some other motivation.






    Its very clear though that undead carrying the Dark Sign do not go hollow (which could be said of the player) and as thus we also need to seperate the idea of "undead" and "chosen undead" in this process. Its thus likely that the fires are kept as a means to combat the spread of the Abyss and in this case the art of kindling (conviniently a power that was once possessed by Nito...) is a means to fan the flames further by having a cleric maiden perform the rite.

    In either case, there is a similar deal of deception that was used in Latria as well by King Jeremiah. A number of hollowed subjects of his kingdom were imprisoned in the dungeons, then ascended into the towers and consumed to fuel his slowly decaying heart. If we take this by a thought, its most likely that Lordran is also on life support in a similar way, but im fairly certain Gwyn found a way. Linking the fires within the Kiln extends the powers of the flame and instead of his aims being antagonistic, im fairly certain that Gwyn had nothing but the best of his intentions in mind when he journeyed to the Kiln, all form of life is corrupted when they lose their Soul.

    So Kaathe was twisting the truth, leaving Lordran in the dark would usher nothing else but a second Oolacile, so its vital that the bonfires are protected, no matter the cost.


    I was under the impression that every Undead carried the Darksign. I
    was also under the impression that the “Chosen Undead” legend has been
    propagated by the Serpents/whoever and is almost a farce created in order to
    manipulate the actions of the Undead… See below for Darksign description. If
    you’ve found any evidence stating otherwise please post it. You’ve recently
    joined and I’ve enjoyed all of your well written posts. Also, I like your comparing
    of the Firekeepers to the Maiden in Black from Demon Souls.


    Darksign:

    The Darksign signifies an
    accursed Undead. Those branded with it are reborn after death, but will one day
    lose their mind and go hollow.

    Death triggers the Darksign, which returns its
    bearer to the last bonfire rested at, but at the cost of all humanity and
    souls.


    _________________
    If i could choose to become any animal it would defiantly be a jackass. So that i could fit in with the crowd.
    avatar
    Sir Mandred
    Newbie
    Newbie

    Posts : 19
    Reputation : 6
    Join date : 2012-10-19

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by Sir Mandred on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:17 pm

    I should have made it a bit clarified, what i meant is that those carrying the Dark Sign are reborn (instead of talking about the Hollows), there still is a very key difference between the player character and other characters. Canonically, the player character perseveres and links the fire / leaves Lordran to the dark thus his position as undead is special.

    To make sense of it, the sentence should read:


    Its very clear though that undead carrying the Dark Sign are reborn and as thus we also need to
    seperate the idea of "undead" and "chosen undead" in this process. Its
    thus likely that the fires are kept as a means to combat the spread of
    the Abyss and in this case the art of kindling (conviniently a power
    that was once possessed by Nito...) is a means to fan the flames further
    by having a cleric maiden perform the rite.

    TheLolrider
    Casual
    Casual

    Posts : 46
    Reputation : 0
    Join date : 2012-11-02

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by TheLolrider on Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:36 pm

    I made a point in another thread that basically suggested that the Darksign was an indication that the world was draining humanity from someone. I don't know if that's true or not, I was just throwing out ideas.

    I don't agree with the idea that Gwyn had the best of intentions when he linked the fire the second time, though. It's pretty clearly established that he did so out of fear of humans, not out of some great desire to save the world, at least not directly. Perhaps he thought that the gods were better rulers than humans were. There might be some validity to that.

    Letting the fires go out signals the end of the age of fire, which in turn is the age of dark, because, again, there is no fire. Basically, the age of dark is the age of a lack of fire, or the age with no gods.

    I don't know how well humans would do ruling the world by themselves, but I think its a bit premature to assume that they would all rush willy-nilly to kill themselves.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Analysis Series: Firekeepers

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Aug 20, 2017 1:15 am