The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by XachAttack on Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:15 pm

    The Broadsword might be a good one to add. The Drake Sword is the only Straight Sword that shares it's moveset, aside from the 2h r2/Rt.

    About the Curved Swords: Alright then, that makes sense to me. No problems here.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by Mr_Bungle50221 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:26 pm

    ChaosMoogle wrote:Regarding Spells

    -Are people generally happy with these? I though about adding a more offensive pyro but then decided not to, as with Sorcery and Miracles I've only included the more offensive spells that have high requirements, so you don't get something for nothing. Is this fair?

    Armour

    -Masks, Havel's and Giant's are a given, but I also though about omitting the Black Iron, Wanderer and Logan's sets as these are fairly popular, and I don't want to seem unfair by just saying 'don't use the high poise armours'. Thoughts?


    Yeah I think it would be fair to disallow certain light armors aswell. Stuff like Hollow Soldier waistcloth and Sealer set that are quite popular.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:30 pm

    Add the Scimitar for the lulz. Quelaag's Furysword is so damn badass, it's damage is very low compared to other curved swords, as it's split AR. It's the longest curved sword. I only use it because of looks, usually for my pyros.

    For offensive spells, Fire Whip and it's chaos version should be added, I rarely see them. I don't know about Fireball, since it's popular but also very difficult to connect in PvP. For the sorceries Great Soul Arrow should be included too, very rare in a mages arsenal.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:31 pm

    Hollow Soldier Waistcloth how could I forget that!!!! OP OP OP!!!!!


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:15 pm

    I thought you guys would go MAD if I banned the Hollow Soldier Waistcloth silly It is an incredibly useful piece of armour though.

    I'm also adding the Big Hat.

    Wyrm - Fire Whip is my go-to Pyro, so I never considered it. Thanks happy


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by Mr_Bungle50221 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:23 pm

    ChaosMoogle wrote:I thought you guys would go MAD if I banned the Hollow Soldier Waistcloth silly It is an incredibly useful piece of armour though.

    I'm also adding the Big Hat.

    Wyrm - Fire Whip is my go-to Pyro, so I never considered it. Thanks happy
    Yes but one look at the book of the guilty and its Hollow Soldier Waistcloth everywhere XD

    Firewhip I find is useful for PvP, as people don't expect it. But tbh I dont see it much from other people.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:37 pm

    Yeah Fire Whip packs a hell of a punch! A lot of the time people presume your using GC and get hit by it silly

    With the spell selection, the idea is to diversify but not hinder for when it comes to invasions, which I think we've achieved happy


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by Mr_Bungle50221 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:51 pm

    Yes definately, this is a great idea you had, everyone using the same stuff just makes the game stale and boring, using different things, especially under used stuff like Quelaag's Fury Sword (which I LOVE) just makes things very.....fresh.

    Im so sick of everyone using the most powerful by numbers gear and relying on it for their wins instead of skill.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:28 am

    Would it be really annoying if I posted a series of polls about the undecided points?


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by XachAttack on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:47 pm

    Oh, Moogle, I just noticed. You never specified on what Thrusting Swords are 'allowed' or not. Unless you're outlawing all of them.

    As for the polls, I don't see any problems with them.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:25 am

    i think the only stabby swords not common are the mail breaker and... maybe velkas....


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by XachAttack on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:30 am

    I think you have a point there, still though, I'de like what Moogle has to say. This is his/her idea after all.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by hageshisa on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:00 am

    Whats the sl cap?


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:18 am

    Hey guys. Gosh-darnit, I knew I'd forgotten something, thanks Xach! I put in no offhand piercing swords and didn't mention anything about using them as primary silly I'll add in the Mail Breaker, but in italics as I personally wouldn't like to see any Rapiers in the covenant as I'm sure you'll all agree they are a rather common occurrence! Besides, it has a High Crit Modifier (which is basically the only thing going for it), and we all know what that can encourage... silly

    Hageshisa - This is just a pre-thread to finalize the gear list, I'll be making the actual covenant thread once this has all been decided which will give you all the info happy
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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by hageshisa on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:19 pm

    But we want spoilers!! :3


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:38 pm

    Haha! I'm sure there is nothing exciting enough to be 'spoiled' silly Well I'm proposing sl 99 and 120 caps for duels and tourneys to include those who want to make builds for certian new-content-areas-that-shall-remain-nameless silly

    Haven't quite decided on the invasion SL cap yet. Ideally I would want to keep it low, to coincide with the other user convenants for wars etc, but because of the weapons/spells that you would be allowed to use it would also ideally need to be slightly higher.
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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by Rarayn on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:13 pm

    As much as I'd like to join, I am on the PC version and this seems to be a covenant for you PS3 folks. I do use a USB PS3 controller to play, but I don't think that counts. silly

    In any case, I still really like the idea, and the list posted on the first page gave me some interesting ideas for the new character I've been planning to start once I get my current batch of assignments done.

    That said, I do have a few additions/suggestions to (hopefully) make it even better:

    Daggers:
    Could the Parrying Dagger perhaps be included on the condition that it's used only for parrying?

    Straight Swords:
    No complaints here, as I already read your reasoning for not including all that many of the regular ones.Would have liked to the see the Shortsword though, if only because it's always overshadowed by all the other weapons in the category.

    Piercing Swords:
    From what I've seen in PVP videos, those things aren't used that often, are they? I guess they encourage both turtling and backstabbing though. Still, maybe add Estoc to the list on
    the condition that it's wielded two handed? That's just my personal opinion born from how much I like it, so feel free to disregard it altogether. (I still find it amusing that a sword characterized in real life as a stabbing sword without a cutting edge is described in Dark
    Souls as a sharp sword that can slice as well.)

    Greataxes:
    I am a bit worried about the Dragon King Greataxe. That AoE ability of it didn't seem very balanced in the last video I saw of it being used in PVP. (Though to be fair, they were caught by surprise)

    Medium Shields:
    Should the Balder Shield really be on the list of allowed shields? I mean, I guess it's not *that* widely used, but it still has one of the best Stability stats of medium shields in the game, and almost makes it pointless to even consider any of the other shields on the list. After all, its stability is only one point below that of the Silver Knight Shield while at the same time being lighter. (Only by 1, granted, but that means a lot if you want to go with a more speedy build)

    Talisman, Catalyst or Pyromancy Flame

    ...Even the Tin Crystalization Catalyst? Ah well, difficult enough to get in a hit with Sorcery in PVP anyway, so I guess there's no reason to kick it even more, what with the other major sorcery boosters already being banned.


    Sorcery:
    No Fall Control or Repair?


    Pyromancy:
    No Flash Sweat?

    Miracles:
    No Magic Barrier/Great Magic Barrier?


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by hageshisa on Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:22 pm

    Nice first post Rarayn and welcome to the forum : ) I advice you to check out the Lifehunters thread, think we have one or two ppl kicking it on pc ^^


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:13 pm

    Hi Rarayn. Thanks for your post happy If this gets up and running I'll be looking to run it (with help) across all three platforms so once I get the covenant thread up have a read and see if you would still like to join happy

    Daggers - The Parrying Dagger could be added to the list. The reason it isn't is that it has the same parrying animation as the Target Shield and Buckler, which are fairly common.

    Piercing Swords - Not allowing rapiers, period. The Mail Breaker is only there because it is basically never used and as you'll see I originally didn't include any. Unfortunately those, Greatswords and Katanas are the most widely used weapon classes in the game. As you play on PC you perhaps haven't seen as much of them yet, but without doubt they are very common on consoles (xbox here). The Estoc is the most powerful rapier (outside of critical attacks) and has the longest range, would you mind elaborating on why you think it should be included?

    Dragon King Greataxe - The AoE is largely ineffective for those that know how to dodge it and performing it leaves you wide open for attack so I'm not too worried about it. It's Strength and Weight requirements mean that it's not really a popular weapon and I wouldn't like to rule something out of the list purely for an AoE attack. If other's voice an opinion about it I can remove it from the list.

    Balder Shield - Hmmm, you do raise a good point regarding the stability. What do others think? I'll italicize it for now happy P.S - I hate you...after the Heater Shield this is my favourite silly

    Catalysts - No problems with people using the TCC. The only offensive spells in the list are White Dragon Breath and Great Soul Arrow, and as you say it's difficult enough to hit someone with these spells.

    Spells - Fall control should be on the list, so thanks for pointing that out :oops:

    Flash Sweat and Magic Barrier - With the new spells coming in the DLC, pyro and magic are going to be quite popular as people will be eager to use the new content. For the time being I think we should be sporting and allow people to do so happy Also, learning to avoid the new dark magics will be more beneficial than nullifying them with Great Magic Barrier. Which also means Vow of Silence shouldn't be there ...my bad!

    Thanks for your input, it's nice to see people getting involved and I'm always looking for fresh perspectives (and people pointing out my mistakes silly ). I'll make the changes. Oh, and welcome to the forums Proper Bow


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:20 pm

    Actually, since we're on the the subject, what do you guys think about allowing the new spells for the time being? I don't want to push people away from joining by banning new content before we even see it, but at the same time the new spells are going to be VERY popular! Would you like to see them on the list for now, and then we can revisit after the DLC has been around for a while?


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:30 pm

    the only new spells i don't see used all the time (not on pc here so via youtube) is the most basic one and the poison one, i.e people only use three of the new sorcerys/pyro.


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:33 pm

    Yeah, I put Dark Fog in already because that makes for interesting dynamic. Would you like to see the rest of the new ones added?
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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by sparkly-twinkly-lizard on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:42 pm

    no, the shotgun and homing missle ones are used by everyone the only ones not used ar fog and the basic orb...

    oh and there is a greatsword you can add to the list, the crystal greatsword from domnall!!!

    also what about the... abyss gs?


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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by Rarayn on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:30 pm

    hageshisa wrote:Nice first post Rarayn and welcome to the forum : ) I
    advice you to check out the Lifehunters thread, think we have one or
    two ppl kicking it on pc ^^
    Thanks.

    Well, this is awkward. My first reaction upon first seeing Priscilla was something along the lines of "A GIANT WOMAN WITH A SCYTHE? SHE'S KINDA SCARY, SO GUESS I'LL HAVE TO KILL HER TO GET OUT" before throwing a lightning bolt at her before even hearing her dialogue. Things did not end well for me. silly

    ChaosMoogle wrote:Hi Rarayn. Thanks for your post happy
    If this gets up and running I'll be looking to run it (with help)
    across all three platforms so once I get the covenant thread up have a
    read and see if you would still like to join happy

    Will do! Is the name in the thread title intended as the name of the future covenant itself, or is it just temporary for the discussion thread? Something along the lines of the "Society of Unorthodox Weaponry" might flow a bit better.

    Daggers - The Parrying Dagger could be added to the list. The reason it
    isn't is that it has the same parrying animation as the Target Shield
    and Buckler, which are fairly common.
    Good point, but wouldn't the Parrying Dagger's inability to block efficiently - or at all - balance it out a bit?
    Piercing Swords - Not allowing rapiers, period. The Mail Breaker is only
    there because it is basically never used and as you'll see I originally
    didn't include any. Unfortunately those, Greatswords and Katanas are
    the most widely used weapon classes in the game. As you play on PC you
    perhaps haven't seen as much of them yet, but without doubt they are
    very common on consoles (xbox here). The Estoc is the most powerful
    rapier (outside of critical attacks) and has the longest range, would
    you mind elaborating on why you think it should be included?
    I've been watching a lot of PVP videos lately, and it seemed to me that
    the most common weapons were Zweihander, Claymore, BKGA, Demon Spear, Dragon Slayer Spear,
    Uchigatana and other katana and Murakumo. I can't remember seeing a lot of rapiers in the mix, except when the guy recording some of the videos was using his Velka's Rapier build.

    It does seem like rapier builds are pretty fun when not being used for turtling, but if they really are as overused in PVP as you say they are then I guess they shouldn't be included. I thought the Estoc was pretty underused, if anything, thus why I suggested it. (Apart from my personal feelings for it)

    Dragon King Greataxe - The AoE is largely ineffective for those that
    know how to dodge it and performing it leaves you wide open for attack
    so I'm not too worried about it. It's Strength and Weight requirements
    mean that it's not really a popular weapon and I wouldn't like to rule
    something out of the list purely for an AoE attack. If other's voice an
    opinion about it I can remove it from the list.
    In one video I watched, the recording player ambushed an invader with the DKG and spammed the AoE attack, making him unable to get up or retaliate before he died. I guess there's plenty of ways to counter it, but it seems a little bit overpowered in certain situations.

    Balder Shield - Hmmm, you do raise a good point regarding the stability. What do others think? I'll italicize it for now P.S - I hate you...after the Heater Shield this is my favourite
    The Balder and Heater Shields are my favourites as well, so it's not like I wanted them off the list or anything. It's just that I always fall back on them if they're an option, which seemed contrary to the purpose of this thread and covenant. silly

    Catalysts - No problems with people using the TCC. The only offensive
    spells in the list are White Dragon Breath and Great Soul Arrow, and as
    you say it's difficult enough to hit someone with these spells.
    Dark Fog is apparently affected by MagAdjust too. I don't know to what extent though.

    Speaking of the Dark Fog spell, does anyone know if it stacks with its Pyromancy counterparts to poison the enemy faster?

    Spells - Fall control should be on the list, so thanks for pointing that out
    It only has limited usefulness in PVP, but I plan to apply these restrictions to my PVE gameplay as well, so I was getting a bit worried by it's lack of inclusion. Glad it was cleared up.

    Flash Sweat and Magic Barrier - With the new spells coming in the DLC,
    pyro and magic are going to be quite popular as people will be eager to
    use the new content. For the time being I think we should be sporting
    and allow people to do so
    Also, learning to avoid the new dark magics will be more beneficial
    than nullifying them with Great Magic Barrier. Which also means Vow of
    Silence shouldn't be there ...my bad!
    The rather limited selection of miracles available should make for an interesting challenge. How is the use of Replenishment generally viewed in PVP? (Since healing usually seems to be frowned upon, I mean)

    Thanks for your input, it's nice to see people getting involved and I'm
    always looking for fresh perspectives (and people pointing out my
    mistakes ). I'll make the changes. Oh, and welcome to the forums
    No problem, it was an interesting list to read through. Thank you for putting it together.
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    Re: The "Alternative Weapon" Covenant - Proposals

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:12 pm

    Yeah....temporary covenant title silly I'm going to think of something that fits in with the lore I'm working on (which isn't just limited to the unorthodox idea).

    As for Rapiers, without the use of the Leo Ring I find them to be generally quite underwhelming in terms of diversity / the damage you can inflict without critical's. It almost always inevitably comes down to looking for criticals as your health dwindles and your frustration at how little damage your are doing rises. Velka's and Ricard's are quite fun though; the R2's can do monstrous damage when used right.

    The spell selection (hopefully) is diverse, but not necessarily hindering for when it comes to invasions. It just requires a bit more creativity than WoG spamming, which hopefully is also more fun happy Replenishment is generally fine for PvP because you can't have any other 'self-buff' active at the same time. Most people don't mind it. There will be a few people who will try to attack you when you cast it though, possibly because they think you are casting TWoP lol, so judge your distance well silly

    I don't think Dark Fog stacks with Poison Mist, but it would work in tandem with Toxic Mist to double up ailments. It's usefulness in sneakiness is also apparent silly

    To be honest, the WoG attack from the Grant is probably more dangerous than the AoE from the Dragon King Greataxe. In duels and Tourney's ambushing wouldn't be a problem, and in invasions there are far worse things than that. Also, parrying the Dargon Axe AoE = instant swag Praise the Sun

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