Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

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    Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:32 pm

    At first glance this might seem like a rant, so I'll start by saying that I am Zen Master calm as a I write this and is not my intention to offend or aggravate anyone happy So, onto the point.

    Has PvP really devolved to the stage where we all need to have tryhard builds with Katanas and Greatswords, and constantly punish every little mistake (or use of a sub-optimal weapon), in order to win matches consistently anymore?

    I don't like to use these weapons anymore because I have been there and done that, and to be honest I'm actually incredibly tired of seeing Katanas in 9/10 fights, but that's another issue and of course just my opinion. I like to make builds that are a little bit different and which to me are more fun, and as such I've been messing around with Smough's Hammer, the Butcher's Knife and the Notched Whip recently, and have been losing significantly more fights than I usually would because when people see that you are using a sub-optimal weapon (and by that I mean not a Katana, Spear or Greatsword) or are mid-rolling, the only thing that the huge majority (read 98%) of PvPers that I met seemed to do was backstab fish and abuse the iframes of the DWGR to take zero damage from what would have been a direct hit. This also applies to what most people take as the 'dueling areas'.

    It's incredibly disheartening to see that out of all the possibilities in weapons and strategies the Dark Souls offers, people are still only interested in Backstabing, and in backstabbing those who are trying something a little different. Even now, a year after the release. Yes of course it's to be expected to an extent, and there's little that can be done to change this, however I would like to ask a question of those who also like to use the more 'silly' builds; at what point do you say enough is enough? Do you also reach a point where you are tired of sitting through yet another teleport backstab animation? I also like to think that using a different build is entertaining for other people, as when I fight someone with an unusual build I have a great time, but in your experiences do people really only care about winning to the extent that they don't care about what they are fighting?

    I'm thinking about trying to start up some sort of fight club or dueling covenant where the more frequently used weapons and rings are not allowed. Would people be interested in something like this? I suggest this purely as means to try something different and have a little fun with a more 'out there' build without fear of being roll-backstabbed etc, and not as an attack on people who prefer the more popular weapons as of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with them, and I'm sure there are plently of people who use them because they genuinely enjoy them and not just because they offer a tactical advantage.

    So please take this as it was intended - a friendly discussion between like minded people - and offer your opinions and thoughts. Or if you disagree or think that such a covenant is a bad idea, please also share your thoughts.

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    Last edited by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Making Title Clearer)
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by RANT on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:38 pm

    yeah, sadly im pretty sure its not gonna change even with the upcoming patch thats gonna make dex(katana) builds even more popular cause theyre so damn light. i have been using str weapons since day one but somehow str builds have this rep of only bs'ing which people kinda do since they dont wanna get good with them and ohko bs is fun for them i guess, i can counter bs just fine but it gets really boring when that's all your doing all the time. at least after the patch people wont use the dwgr and abuse those iframes which pretty much made you invinsible and able to dodge everything.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:44 pm

    You raise a good point there regarding strength weapons actually. I've seen a lot of people just backstab fish with them, but I wonder whether it's because that's the only way they can land a hit because of how it easy it is to avoid even locked-off hits with the DWGR?

    Edit : There will be those who would just fish regardless, but I do think that sometimes it's out of frustration.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:04 pm

    Sometimes people don't have enough time to get into the game and try different weapons so once they see a katana being so damn fast it's love at first sight and they wanna try them as well. It's just that some weapons are very good for PvP while others suck really (take small hammers for example). DWGR makes easy to stack poise while having a low weight weapon, and as Rant said they'll become even more popular with the new patch as having 25% equipload is f*cking difficult with a Str weapon. Also kats and greatswords are so easy to use, you miss a kat swing, you dodge out rapidly. You miss a Str weapon swing, you get backstabbed. They also make you feel skillful and are very fun to use. I'm glad they're more popular than spears and BSS seriously, I don't have any problems fighting kats.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:08 pm

    I have no problem fighting any weapon when I'm also using one of the tryhard PvP weapons, but I'm talking about the situations when you aren't, and are rewarded by backstasb after backstab.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:10 pm

    What would you guys think about such a fight club/covenant? You've been around here for a while, do you think it would work out?


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:23 pm


    You have pretty much summed up about 15 of my more recent videos in just one post. This is the reason that I try to showcase "unique" builds and weapon combinations in my videos. I try my hardest to inspire players to think outside of the box. Nice posting!


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by RANT on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:24 pm

    ChaosMoogle wrote:You raise a good point there regarding strength weapons actually. I've seen a lot of people just backstab fish with them, but I wonder whether it's because that's the only way they can land a hit because of how it easy it is to avoid even locked-off hits with the DWGR?

    Edit : There will be those who would just fish regardless, but I do think that sometimes it's out of frustration.

    i think its because people dont wanna get good with them and just find ohko bs a lot easier which is really boring. for example i fought a guy with a bkga a couple of months ago, he tried to chain bs me, i got out of it then chain bsd him(4 fing times!!!) and he seemed to have so much freaking vit and full giants of course, after a couple of secs i get a gg mesage saying he can never get the right timing for bs and asking me to teach him lol, sad. and yes since everyone is bs'ing it just spreads with everyone since that's what they think dueling is all about which it kinda is with most people.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by XachAttack on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:30 pm

    I'm one of the newer members here, but I think a fight club/covenant like that sounds like a fun idea.

    Both of my builds use alot of the unpopular weapons, though there are some of the more common ones in there. I favor the Straight Sword weapons over most other weapons, so I can understand where you're coming from. It's a pain in the butt, but I enjoy using them, so it's all a fun experience.

    If you do make the fight club/covenant then count me in, if you are on the PS3 anyway.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:31 pm

    Haha! You should post that in the PvP Tales thread...asking you to teach him how to chain....classic silly

    Thankyou, martyrsbrigade happy I've seen a few of your videos (jblackmel, right?), and I usually end up screaming in agreement at my commputer screen silly


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by WyrmHero on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:31 pm

    I remember when I was fighting at the Burg with a DGA and got roll bsed constantly. I made a rant post about that and it frustrated me to the point that I didn't do nothing but bs fish.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:33 pm

    XachAttack wrote:I'm one of the newer members here, but I think a fight club/covenant like that sounds like a fun idea.

    Both of my builds use alot of the unpopular weapons, though there are some of the more common ones in there. I favor the Straight Sword weapons over most other weapons, so I can understand where you're coming from. It's a pain in the butt, but I enjoy using them, so it's all a fun experience.

    If you do make the fight club/covenant then count me in, if you are on the PS3 anyway.

    First member happy Thanks! I'm on Xbox, but if there's enough support for this, I would like to make it into covenant if people would be willing to get involved with organising on PS3 and PC.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by RANT on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:33 pm

    yeah, it can get really annoying when people do nothing but wait for you to press r1 then bs your ***, its so boring i stopped dueling and just focused on invading and coop. there are str weapons that are really good for bs'ers, anything with a wide arc attack like the DGM.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by martyrsbrigade99 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:34 pm

    ChaosMoogle wrote:Haha! You should post that in the PvP Tales thread...asking you to teach him how to chain....classic silly

    Thankyou, martyrsbrigade happy I've seen a few of your videos (jblackmel, right?), and I usually end up screaming in agreement at my commputer screen silly

    ...lol, Nice!


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:36 pm

    RantFromRant wrote:yeah, it can get really annoying when people do nothing but wait for you to press r1 then bs your ***, its so boring i stopped dueling and just focused on invading and coop. there are str weapons that are really good for bs'ers, anything with a wide arc attack like the DGM.

    The large club works wonders for this. Either lure them in with a lock off roll and then manually aim the roll attack behind you as they come in for a BS, or use the R2-R2 combo, they never expect the second hit happy


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by eduardolee on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:48 pm

    where are you fighting?i see a lot of different weapons in the burg.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:50 pm

    Katanas, Katanas...more Katanas and Claymores, with the occasional rapier turtle. That's 95% of my Burg experience, but perhaps others have better luck. I'm in the Burg now looking at the RSS signs, and 3 of 4 I have seen in the last 5 mins have the Chaos Blade.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:55 pm

    so i am a try hard if i use a Katana? and punish stupid mistakes like swinging into my shield more then once with a parry?

    sorry ill use a whip from now on and run in circles next time some one swings twice in a shield happy


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:59 pm

    Aye, tis' true - would be amusing if someone interpreted your topic title completely wrong and was like "HEY I DON'T SEE NONE OF THEM GREATSWORDS BEING USED!" Note the dialect was switched to a more ignorant one for amusement in the post. But truthfully when fighting these opponents just imagine their face is my avatar... It seriously does take away from the monotony of fighting one every couple of matches. Anyway I possibly have some content that you may enjoy on my youtube channel. I am currently attempting to upload a comm but my internet is being an abomination. I am considering changing my ISP.

    I like to see variation, though the paradigm shift will just turn from Giants Ninflipping Katana users to fast rolling katana giants :affraid:

    http://tinyurl.com/9j8c5r5 (The new most common foe.)
    http://tinyurl.com/8q5gj29 (Probably the Buffing variation).


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by The Letter X on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:08 pm

    Nah, we just need the PGS.


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:10 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:so i am a try hard if i use a Katana? and punish stupid mistakes like swinging into my shield more then once with a parry?

    sorry ill use a whip from now on and run in circles next time some one swings twice in a shield happy

    This isn't what I'm saying, and I made it as clear as possible that I wasn't attacking Katana users. Further clarification though; I'm not talking about spamming attacks on a shield, that's just stupid (though 2 attacks with Smough's hammer on a shield would break your guard with any medium shield). I'm talking about a slight misjudgement in a locked off attack - backstab. A slight misjudgement in distance - backstab. DWGR invincibility flip through attack - backstab. Eat a hit - poise backstab. Mid roll -backstab fished. Recovering from an attack - Katana spammed for bleed, stunlock or backstab. This is what I'm talking about. Of course it's punishment, and I actually said it was to be expected, but it doesn't mean that it's right, it certainly isn't fun, and it doesn't make for a nice variety of builds.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by Glutebrah on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:15 pm

    ChaosMoogle wrote:
    Glutebrah wrote:so i am a try hard if i use a Katana? and punish stupid mistakes like swinging into my shield more then once with a parry?

    sorry ill use a whip from now on and run in circles next time some one swings twice in a shield happy

    This isn't what I'm saying, and I made it as clear as possible that I wasn't attacking Katana users. Further clarification though; I'm not talking about spamming attacks on a shield, that's just stupid (though 2 attacks with Smough's hammer on a shield would break your guard with any medium shield). I'm talking about a slight misjudgement in a locked off attack - backstab. A slight misjudgement in distance - backstab. DWGR invincibility flip through attack - backstab. Eat a hit - poise backstab. Mid roll -backstab fished. Recovering from an attack - Katana spammed for bleed, stunlock or backstab. This is what I'm talking about. Of course it's punishment, and I actually said it was to be expected, but it doesn't mean that it's right, it certainly isn't fun, and it doesn't make for a nice variety of builds.

    lol my apologizes, i'll be honest i basically just read

    "tryhard builds with Katanas and Greatswords, and constantly punish every little mistake (or use of a sub-optimal weapon), in order to win matches consistently anymore?" and then skimmed the rest


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChizFreak on Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:06 pm

    I never use Katanas anymore. They are so *** boring. And while I don't like Greatswords much either, now the completely useless because of the nerf they got in PC edition (can't stunlock 2-handed anymore).


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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by Rynn on Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:01 pm

    if you're on X-box, i'll show up for some dueling.
    I don't like dueling much, i prefer other kinds of PvP, but i'll help this project off the ground by voting with my time.
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    Re: Do we all need Katanas and Greatswords? / Alternative Weapon Dueling Covenant

    Post by ChaosMoogle on Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:30 pm

    Thanks Rynn, I appreciate your support happy Hopefully I'll get some more people interested. I might make a thread detailing the restrictions I propose, and get other peoples input, because I don't just want it to be what I think are the 'common' weapons.

    TBH I prefer invasions as well because of the random element, but sometimes it's nice to have some friendly duels and just sandbox with different setups.


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