Gwyns appearance in the intro

I was actually thinking the same thing last time I saw the intro. He looks pretty haggard in the shot with his knights, too.


For reference: https://i.imgur.com/BHYSl.jpg

Hmm, this could be around the time when he split up his soul to give to others. This would give him that rough hollow look although technically since he isn't dead yet he isn't fully hollow. OR.....he was once an undead much like the player and gained strength through the lord soul but possibly never used or gained humanity.

When you consider that before the dark soul was split into humanity ( my own theory) everyoe was undead, it makes perfect sense. The battle happens before humanity exists, so everyone is still an undead.

DoughGuy wrote:When you consider that before the dark soul was split into humanity ( my own theory) everyoe was undead, it makes perfect sense. The battle happens before humanity exists, so everyone is still an undead.

Hm, that would make sense. I haven't read your theory, is that the Pygmy purposely split the Dark Souls so that they could become human (for more power, I guess?)? Or that it split unintentionally?

The pygmy intentionally split the dark soul into humanity, but didnt do it until after the dragon war. Or maybe he did, but just didnt give a piece to Gwyn because he's all lord fo fire and stuff whle the pygmy is all dark and stuff.

DoughGuy wrote:When you consider that before the dark soul was split into humanity ( my own theory) everyoe was undead, it makes perfect sense. The battle happens before humanity exists, so everyone is still an undead.

Dough,


I’ve read a ton of your lore stuff and while I don’t agree
with everything I’d say you have great ideas and interesting things to investigate.
I for one believe Gywn and everyone else (from the dark they came folks) are
human, Primordial Humans. Created by the flame, or created by the Dark Soul
that came from the flame. Normally when one looks as hollow as Gywn does in the
intro, they have died. It’s pretty safe to assume that in the intro we are
watching one of his last battles, so I’m sure he died in a few battles but was
revived at the first flame because as you say he is undead. However, does that
mean he was branded with the darksign? We know while we are playing that the
undead have the darksign. I’ve been trying to link the Primordial Serpents, the
Lords Souls, and the Dark Soul together the past few weeks and if you have not
seen it already I have some speculation on that here https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t12249-primordial-serpents-true-intensions-vanilla-spoilers
and here https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t12367-how-i-see-the-dark-souls-world-spoilers-speculation
. I go off on some wild tangents (apologizes) but my bottom lines remain mostly
consistent. If you have any information that you know from all of your research
I’d be most grateful. I’m sure you’ve forgotten more of the lore than most
people are aware of, and sometimes get tired of all of the speculation (there
is a ton lol). Anywho, thanks for the reply and for your time!

Deathsitexxi wrote:

DoughGuy wrote:When you consider that before the dark soul was split into humanity ( my own theory) everyoe was undead, it makes perfect sense. The battle happens before humanity exists, so everyone is still an undead.

Dough,


I’ve read a ton of your lore stuff and while I don’t agree
with everything I’d say you have great ideas and interesting things to investigate.
I for one believe Gywn and everyone else (from the dark they came folks) are
human, Primordial Humans. Created by the flame, or created by the Dark Soul
that came from the flame. Normally when one looks as hollow as Gywn does in the
intro, they have died. It’s pretty safe to assume that in the intro we are
watching one of his last battles, so I’m sure he died in a few battles but was
revived at the first flame because as you say he is undead. However, does that
mean he was branded with the darksign? We know while we are playing that the
undead have the darksign. I’ve been trying to link the Primordial Serpents, the
Lords Souls, and the Dark Soul together the past few weeks and if you have not
seen it already I have some speculation on that here https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t12249-primordial-serpents-true-intensions-vanilla-spoilers
and here https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t12367-how-i-see-the-dark-souls-world-spoilers-speculation
. I go off on some wild tangents (apologizes) but my bottom lines remain mostly
consistent. If you have any information that you know from all of your research
I’d be most grateful. I’m sure you’ve forgotten more of the lore than most
people are aware of, and sometimes get tired of all of the speculation (there
is a ton lol). Anywho, thanks for the reply and for your time!

That's an interesting theory, Ive never looked at it that way.

He is undead, but he doesnt have the darksign. Remeber the darksign does not make the undead, the flame's craziness after the GoW did. Gwyn hasnt died by then, he's still a "primordial human" i.e. undead. The undead in the intro dont have the darksign, but they are still undead.

DoughGuy wrote:He is undead, but he doesnt have the darksign. Remeber the darksign does not make the undead, the flame's craziness after the GoW did. Gwyn hasnt died by then, he's still a "primordial human" i.e. undead. The undead in the intro dont have the darksign, but they are still undead.

So then what exactly is the Darksign? A mark of Hollowness, I suppose?

Gazoinks wrote:

DoughGuy wrote:He is undead, but he doesnt have the darksign. Remeber the darksign does not make the undead, the flame's craziness after the GoW did. Gwyn hasnt died by then, he's still a "primordial human" i.e. undead. The undead in the intro dont have the darksign, but they are still undead.

So then what exactly is the Darksign? A mark of Hollowness, I suppose?

In my theory crafting the this week I
posted this, however I actually now think a little differently but it’s still
really close to this….I now think the Dark Sign has something to do with the Lords Souls and the Dark Soul almost link a yin/yang type deal.... Anyways here's what I said in a different thread....



I think the splitting
of the Dark Soul is what causes the Dark Sign. In this, as the First Flame
grows weaker the Dark Sign spreads like a disease because the Dark Soul is
gaining power as the flame fades. A good example of this is if you link the
flame some believe it removes the darksign from everyone (but can return as the
flame weakens again). So what happens when you link the flame? A big explosion
that burns up everything it touches including any fragments of the Dark Soul it
touches. The stronger the person linking the flame the bigger the explosion,
the more of the Dark Soul they take out. It makes sense because when you burn
fragments of the Dark Soul (humanity) at a bon fire it restores you to what you
looked like before you died, and if you die again the darksign absorbs the
humanity you had inside of you.



The Darksign’s description says that:

“The Darksign signifies an accursed Undead. Those
branded with it are reborn after death, but will one day lose their mind and go
hollow. Death triggers the Darksign, which returns
its bearer to the last bonfire rested at, but at the cost of all humanity and
souls.”

So if death Triggers the Darksign you could say you would have no idea about it
until you were “reborn” after you died. However, because it specifically says
you are branded with the Darksign… that’s more than likely not true..

This is the true power of the Dark Soul and the Darksign and I tell what I
think their relationships to the Lord Souls are in a different post. The more I
think about it the more I’m convincing myself. If you’ve got the time read what
I was suggesting in the thread “How I see Dark Souls world.
Spoilers/speculation” here is a link https://soulswiki.forumotion.com/t12367-how-i-see-the-dark-souls-world-spoilers-speculation


Thanks for your time and I hope this was of some use to you

I dont read spoilers.
I disagree of your belief of the dark sign. The age of fire existed for a long time and the intro implies the darksign is relatively new. I believe it was the GoW extinguishing the fire, and Gwyn subsequently relighting it which caused an abberation in the flame. No longer was death an absolute. By relighting the fire Gwyn showed death could be beaten, and so this power manifested itself as the darksign, showing death was not the end. As the chosen undead by linking with the fire you simply undo gwyn and the GoWs interference and remove the darksign by repairing the flame. As the dark lord you simply continue the natural chain of events removing he darksign.

I'm glad to see someone agrees with me about the Dark Soul being split into Humanity. Why else would Kaathe and the Darkwraiths want it so badly? Killing Manus does not net you the Dark Soul, which means Manus abandoned his soul. I think the Darkwraiths want to reconstruct the Dark Soul to give true power back to the Dark Lord.

Far out Ghadis SPOILERS!

Dough, I still disagree with you on the whole "error in the flame" thing. First of all, if it was that, than it likely would have started right away after the flame was linked, but it didn't. In addition, the game says nothing about the God of War extinguishing the flame or Gwyn re-lighting it (he linked it). If the flame had gone out completely, what makes you think that Gwyn would have any more success relighting it than the witch would have had making a new one? Although, Acidic may have found some evidence for part two, I may need to reread his thread.

Personally, I think the most likely answer as to what the "flame" is and how the lord soul and dark soul relate are the theories I posted a few days back in one of the newer threads.

Also, if Gwyn was already undead when he first linked the flame, that would explain why he needs another undead to do it again, and not just some human. Undeath is part of the deal, somehow.