does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

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    Rynn
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    does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:36 pm

    To me, it kind of feels like most of you never do... and you're missing out!
    There is SO many aspects of PvP you're all missing when you restrict yourself to dueling! Some of my funnest moments have been hide and seek PvP, (and i am respected for it by many too. "Solid snake would be proud" is one PM i got) a free for all among the mobs, where each team fights all out to smash the other with all tools. All out matches with healing, backstabs, and everything else available.

    dueling is not the entire realm of PvP, and if it's all you're learning about, then you're not becoming as good as you can be!
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by roanispe on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:52 pm

    I must say, I have never tired of dueling once I started. I'm aware that I am not getting the full range of experiences, but it's not like I haven't tried other kinds of PvP. However, nothing gives me as much excitement when dueling someone that I have strong indications of being defeated against, whether or not I win or lose. I had similar experiences when being a Darkwraith, but oh boy, that War in New Londo event turned me hard away from doing invasions. I tried to get back into doing them a while back, but the bitter taste never left my mouth, and I figure I shouldn't force myself to do something I am not having fun with.

    However, other people without my reservations really should try what Rynn seems to be suggesting. I used to have a lot of fun with with invading, and I am sure other people can to. I got agree that it's also a great way to pick up PvP if you are new, and not prone to raging; trial by fire does wonders once you have a few basics down. Lots of really memorable moments can happen too in the lawless world outside of dueling, and if you haven't tried it, you really are missing out.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by WhatDoesThePendantDo? on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:54 pm

    Sometimes

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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rudmed on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:57 pm

    If I do I just go to the forest and sit there.....bring it gankers!


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Seignar on Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:58 pm

    The main problem I always find when I'm trying something different is that my opponent are rarely good. There is no fun when there is no challenge


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Marino. on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:00 pm

    I do everything . I Duel at the Kiln/Oolacile Township , and have everything else in the Forest and Anor Londo .

    I do take a break from Dark Souls as a whole from time to time until i am all hot for it again silly
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Emergence on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:23 pm

    To be honest, the dueling never consumed me the way Demon's did and I have spent the vast majority of my time playing hunter/hunted pvp which is ironically how the system was designed. I have to agree that it adds such a nice layer of strategy to things while also giving the player such an intimate knowledge of the lay of the land. During the Take Back the Forest event I remember exploring every nook and cranny looking for an advantage. Really makes you appreciate From's brilliant level design while also challenging the individual to truly master the environment.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by DxV04 on Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:27 pm

    I hardly duel. I like the chaos and unpredictability of the game more. It is about having fun and not who is the best. The thing about dueling however is that is brings it own set of challenges. But I get bored with it quickly.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by RagingPanic on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:20 pm

    I feel that people enjoy dueling and don't get tired of is that, for the most part, dueling is raw skill. Out of all the ways to PvP dueling is the one with the least amount of variables(Estus, NPCs, Environmental hazards, etc.). At least, that's why I duel.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Jansports on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:27 pm

    RagingPanic wrote:I feel that people enjoy dueling and don't get tired of is that, for the most part, dueling is raw skill. Out of all the ways to PvP dueling is the one with the least amount of variables(Estus, NPCs, Environmental hazards, etc.). At least, that's why I duel.

    Invasions, or hunter/hunted PvP has the same skill set as duels only with MORE variables. Meaning it's harder to become great at but having to worry about cliffs / estus / mobs is not Detracting from the skill of the players in any way.

    Personally I like to play a little game with my quality build called "How many weapons can I drop with SoV with" I've racked up a bunch of sin. and I sit around the Kiln or burg spammin my finger, everyone gets the claymore first. Any repeat invaders I use different weapons down my inventory. I almost made it through all 14 once but he never came back for the BKhalberd
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by RagingPanic on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:44 pm

    Sure, having lot's of variables and winning requires it's own type of skill. But when push comes to shove it's about who fights better, and that's what PvP dueling is supposed to find.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:03 am

    RagingPanic wrote:I feel that people enjoy dueling and don't get tired of is that, for the most part, dueling is raw skill. Out of all the ways to PvP dueling is the one with the least amount of variables(Estus, NPCs, Environmental hazards, etc.). At least, that's why I duel.
    Less variables does not mean more skill. I understand why this is more attractive, but it in no way generates a equation of more skill, just a more concentrated skill system.

    Dueling concentrates on a few mechanics. Generally those around hitting players. However there is so many aspects of the game that aren't covered by this, that are very important and significant.

    Stealth
    Field Management
    Awareness of Surroundings
    Recourse Management

    Let's get into this. As a host or as a phantom, we have several rings that are very good, yet never used in PvP because we -duel- as PvPers, and we never play the game as intended by from (or rarely so)

    We have the Fog Ring and Hornet Ring. One of these was nerfed for good reasons, and then deemed useless by the playerbase, and one is generally used incorrectly. Together this set of rings made up the gear of an assassin, and was better scripted for a shadowed assassin popping out of the darkness and stabbing one in the back, then quickly finishing them off in their weakened state.

    The Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring also played into this aspect, however for silence, you faced the cost of now being more visible due to the feet aura.

    If backstab hitboxes weren't broken, all 3 of these rings would be deemed useless in PvP, but they have their place outside the dueling environment, and lend themself to gameplay styles that don't occur in dueling, yet one could not claim do not require skills. (You try lurking in the tree's of Darkroot garden, killing phantoms, and then vanishing without a trace before the other phantoms locate you! It's NOT as easy as it sounds.)

    Healing is not permitted in a duel, however healing is a major aspect of the PvP environment. this aspect means that once you hit the target, you have two things you MUST think about...
    1: Can i kill them before they heal
    2: If not, is it better to hit them again after they heal, or run off and regroup now the next set of monsters.

    A good invader can blow through all 10-20 flasks of the one they invaded, and attrition them to death with all the existant mobs.

    Bows are not acclimated to the dueling arena, even if they can be used there with some success, they obviously shine in "non-conventional" PvP.

    Tranquil Walk of Peace used to last ages, this was so you could cast it out of sight, and out of mind, and then lay in wait for your prey to pass by. It needed it's nerf because it's intent did not match how players tended to use it.

    The game was not balanced around dueling, you should experience the full aspect of it before saying that dueling is a better show of skill, as all it does is showcase a specific set of skills, while outcasting or completely removing another set.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by RagingPanic on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:10 am

    I am aware of the MANY different ways to PvP, and how the community abused what Fromsoft gave us. I understand what you said, and I partially agree with it. It's just that... Dueling is focused around getting better at combat, not tactics(Which one could argue that's what the FH covenant is for). Depending on the person, they may want to indulge in a little practice with one or both of the ways to PvP.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:36 am

    I feel tactics is not expressly limited to the forest covenant. Tactics were obviously designed to be an inherent part of nearly any invasion with an invader. While i understand the interest in dueling, i feel the way it cuts out tactics just severs the PvP experience, rather then bolstering it.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:13 am

    I wish Demon's SOuls was popular again.....


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by greeneless on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:02 am

    RagingPanic wrote:I am aware of the MANY different ways to PvP, and how the community abused what Fromsoft gave us. I understand what you said, and I partially agree with it. It's just that... Dueling is focused around getting better at combat, not tactics(Which one could argue that's what the FH covenant is for). Depending on the person, they may want to indulge in a little practice with one or both of the ways to PvP.

    I agree with this guy.

    Personally, I find it pretty annoying when an invader appears in front of me, then runs away into a field of enemies. There aren't many "tactics" that a world master can use to get to kill this invader. As far as I'm concerned, any invader doing this already has the advantage.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:35 am

    Let's see... tactics the world master can use.
    Bows, drawing enemies/invaders out...
    walking around the enemies
    avoiding the encounter completely.
    Fire Tempest to immediately wipe out the mob problem.
    using your estus flask

    The invader is at a major disadvantage unless he uses tactics, and you're at a major disadvantage unless you apply your own tactics.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:59 am

    Rynn wrote:Let's see... tactics the world master can use.
    Bows, drawing enemies/invaders out...
    walking around the enemies
    avoiding the encounter completely.
    Fire Tempest to immediately wipe out the mob problem.
    using your estus flask

    The invader is at a major disadvantage unless he uses tactics, and you're at a major disadvantage unless you apply your own tactics.

    the only advantage a host has imo is summoning phantoms. Invaders can just wait around a corner they know the host has to pass with fire tempest waiting. or hide near a ledge the host has to walk with WoG/Force waiting.

    a good invader will always have the element of surprise and alot of times/places that is all it takes for instant win.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:16 am

    A good invader only currently has the element of surprise because -noone does it-. As with when Wrath of the Gods was insanely hard for people to dodge, the sneak attacks from invaders are unexpected at this point.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by eduardolee on Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:34 am

    I like both kinds of pvp,but i enjoy the tactical approach a little more.its just so exciting to do a build that can use the environment to hunt or be hunted...


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by raecor14 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:02 am

    invading is so much more intense, especially with the people who hide ahaha. once i had this guy and i kid you not, i looked for him for 30 min, then when i figured it out we fought.....he was useless but it was still good fun.


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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:07 am

    raecor14 wrote:invading is so much more intense, especially with the people who hide ahaha. once i had this guy and i kid you not, i looked for him for 30 min, then when i figured it out we fought.....he was useless but it was still good fun.
    It's even better if the guy keeps hiding, and he can kill you or greatly injure you with one backstab, causing the results of the battle to stem on who finds who first.

    That's what PvP with me in the forest is like.
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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Red Rosie on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:27 am

    Dueling bores the hell out of me! The whole aspect of "bow, eat grass, buff your weapon, start circling" Its basically 'whoever can land the most parries is the coolest'

    I hate that certain people see dueling as the ONLY acceptable way of PvPing because it totally defeats the point of theif/stealth characters who use surprise to their advantage, also items like fog ring and slumbering dragoncrest, and also spells like hidden body and sometimes chameleon.

    I find invasions MUCH more fun, like is sens fortress, the excitement of not knowing where they will jump out from etc

    Dueling is so restrictive and the game really opens up when anything goes

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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:45 am

    Red Rosie Sugar wrote:Dueling bores the hell out of me! The whole aspect of "bow, eat grass, buff your weapon, start circling" Its basically 'whoever can land the most parries is the coolest'

    I hate that certain people see dueling as the ONLY acceptable way of PvPing because it totally defeats the point of theif/stealth characters who use surprise to their advantage, also items like fog ring and slumbering dragoncrest, and also spells like hidden body and sometimes chameleon.

    I find invasions MUCH more fun, like is sens fortress, the excitement of not knowing where they will jump out from etc

    Dueling is so restrictive and the game really opens up when anything goes

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    Re: does anyone ever get tired of dueling?

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:53 am

    Sometimes people like dueling the most because of the element of prediction. When you're dueling, you control the fight by how experienced you are, counter accordingly. Invasions by the other way are more chaotic, and you have to think fast + think of the many variables as Rynn and the other guys have stated.

    I like both, that's what my covenant is all about. I love having dueling nights with my FC friends. I also love to invade the Painted World as a Darkmoon and kill all the trespassers. I also like to help my fellows FH to kill the gankers in the forest. Even coop has it's fun, I still haven't made a proper coop build and have played more hours in DkS than all my games combined. That's why I love DkS PvP, you can do everything you want.


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