How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

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    Deathsitexxi
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    How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:14 pm

    I’ve been trying to collect up my thoughts lately and organize
    what I think is happening in Dark Souls. Decided I would share what I’ve got so
    far to see what everyone else thinks. This is from my Dark Souls experience so
    I don’t expect anyone to agree to any of this but hope that if I am way off I
    can get some guidance back on the right trail. This is my idea of what the
    Lords Soul and Dark Soul are. As well as why Gywn would link the flame and some
    thoughts about the motives of the Primordial Serpents.


    Lords Souls key to immortally (Undead)


    The Dark soul is the key to maintaining control of it. Aka,
    without the power of the Dark Soul/Humanity you would eventually exhaust
    the power of your Lords Soul, die a final time, hollow and become insane. This is Tricky because I consider the Dark
    Soul as one of the Lords Soul as well, only it is special as in it doesn’t lose
    power in the same way as the other Lords Souls.


    As in when the lords souls were discovered Gywn and the
    others became immortal/undead, meaning I think only they had the dark sign at
    the time, they could die but they would “respawn” at the first flame. The more
    they died and “respawned” the more “off” they would become using up the power
    of their lords souls. However, they discovered or had no idea…..they could use
    the power of the Dark Soul to supplement that loss of power and help
    restore/maintain their sanity/power. The Pygmy I believe stole the Dark Soul
    while Gywn and the others were fighting the dragons and later on to protect the
    Dark Soul or in some kind of an accident split the power of the dark soul and
    spread it all over the world, which I believe, spread the dark sign. This would mean the Dark Sign is a product of
    having a Lord Soul or a piece of the Dark Soul.


    Gywn and the “gods” were some type of human but the strength of
    powerful souls made them stronger/slightly bigger than the others (why they can
    use the Dark Soul/Humanity)


    They can’t be “Giants” because most of them (giants) are
    dead hence the Tomb of the Giants, also the only true giants we see are in Sens
    Fortress, the blacksmith in Anor Londo and Gough himself.


    The gods knew that without the power of the Dark Soul they
    would eventually die, the power of their souls would fade and they would go
    hollow becoming insane.


    The Witch of Izalith panicked and attempted to recreate the
    First Flame which she believed would then reproduce the Lords souls and the
    Dark Soul but failed.


    Because of this, Gywn had to face the Chaos demons and in
    the process died a few times expending a large amount of what remained of his
    lord soul’s power (damn Bed of Chaos).


    Frampt mislead him and made him believe that if he sacrificed
    his lord soul at the first flame (linking the flame) it would recharge/empower
    him farther.


    Frampts reasoning for this? He and the Primordial Serpents
    are some of the original beings on the planet and feed off of souls. In the
    current situation their food flow is almost stagnate. They knew that linking
    the flame would pull in a large amount of the Dark Soul wiping out large areas
    of the dark sign and giving them more food/souls because people would then truly
    die. However, Gywns soul was so weak it had much less of an effect than what
    they expected. Frampt believed that if they
    could collect the rest of the lord souls and relink the flame that they would
    destroy the Dark Soul for good and immortality would cease to exist for the
    lower life forms. In addition, Kaathe began collecting large amounts of the
    Dark Soul hoping to reconstruct it completely, this would allow him to control
    it or burn it in the first flame. Both Frampt and Kaathe saw the power that religion
    (WoW) had on the people of the land and helped propagate the legend of the
    Chosen Undead. I also believe that the names Frampt and Kaathe the names of the
    2 factions of the primordial serpents and not their individual names.


    More to come on what I think but that’s all for now.. Feel
    free to poke holes and remember this is my interpretation of the Dark Souls
    story. I’ve changed my mind so many times it’s ridiculous but I think every
    time I do I get a little closer to the true. Thanks for the read!
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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Shkar on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:24 pm

    I can't point out exactly what did it, but something in your post made me realize something, and my thoughts are cascading right now. I'll post my thoughts here when I finish them.


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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:37 pm

    Shkar wrote:I can't point out exactly what did it, but something in your post made me realize something, and my thoughts are cascading right now. I'll post my thoughts here when I finish them.

    I look forward to hearing it Shakr. I hope my post wasn't to confusing or ridiculous.
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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:13 am

    Deathsitexxi wrote:
    Shkar wrote:I can't point out exactly what did it, but something in your post made me realize something, and my thoughts are cascading right now. I'll post my thoughts here when I finish them.

    I look forward to hearing it Shakr. I hope my post wasn't to confusing or ridiculous.

    No, it wasn't. My thoughts go against yours, but my theories go against EVERYONE'S thoughts. I'm pretty well known here in the archives as "that mad man with the weird theories."

    But, whatever it was in your post that sparked my thoughts, that one thought has caused me to relook at some stuff, which caused more theories, which meant more observations, etc.


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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by samster628 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:59 am

    ill testify to shikar being the mad man with the theorys.
    i Myself also beleve that the gods are simply normal people but i don't think that the lord souls just fade away. i think the lord souls power simply gets used up. Gwyn gave a lot of his power to others who became the gods. As the gods use up their power it will eventually run out. the dark soul gets stronger as the other souls fade. note how in the intro the pigmy looks no different from having aquired his soul. later though

    well you will see in the DLC. i would say here but i cant get my spoilers box to work.



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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:43 pm

    I lied. For the most part, they aren't really theories so much as they are observations.

    The Lord Souls are powerful enough to not need catalysts or miracles. Check the Intro; Nito, the Witch, and Gwyn don't use them. A minor detail, but it does imply something interesting. See, the common belief is that miracles are a sort of "channeling" of a link to the original casting of that miracle. But miracles and sorceries are so close that it seems probable that the original casting was actual sorcery, not miracles. After all, how would the original casting take place? It's not like Gwyn had heard legends of his sunlight spears before he first casted it. But we know that the Lords were using their soul as a sort of "catalyst" (Or its so powerful that they don't NEED to focus it), and we know that sorceries definitely use the power of the soul. Miracles = using a gods power to cast a sorcery, anyone?

    Now, the Lord and Dark Souls themselves. The Dark Soul was divided up into humanity. Now, humanity, when used, is actually used up. Restore your humanity? That's a humanity down the drain. Kindling? Same deal. Now, it's possible that it's because each one is just a tiny "package" of energy, but what if it isn't? The Lord Souls have, arguably, been used MUCH more. They fought and killed an entire PLANET of dragons. Not one, or two, or a dozen, but a PLANETFUL. Thousands, if not millions or BILLIONS of dragons, all exterminated by the Lords. That is a LONG damn time, of what is probably constant use. And then the Witch even goes and "recreates" the flame after that, and yet her lord soul is still there, albeit somewhat weaker.

    "From the dark, they came." Has anyone considered the possibility that this doesn't mean the lords, but instead means the serpents? Could it be that they manipulated the mortal races into killing the dragons? It leaves the question of why, but why do they do anything they do? Why would Kaathe want humans to rule the world?

    "Arch" (Archtrees) means Eminent, or having authority over something. This implies that the Archtrees were the first trees, and they got "weaker" from there.

    "Then" can mean "At that Time". "But then there was fire" = "But at that time there was fire." So screw you Dough, the dragons didn't exist before the flame! silly

    Why is Frampt known as the Kingseeker? KAATHE is the one looking for his "lord," and writers don't just include stuff like that for no reason.

    The Witch of Izalith is covered in spider webs in the intro, which is ironic considering what two of her daughters turn into.

    The Pygmy's soul shown during the animation is by no means dark. It's just smaller than the other ones.


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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Deathsitexxi on Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:09 pm

    Shkar wrote:I lied. For the most part, they aren't really theories so much as they are observations.

    The Lord Souls are powerful enough to not need catalysts or miracles. Check the Intro; Nito, the Witch, and Gwyn don't use them. A minor detail, but it does imply something interesting. See, the common belief is that miracles are a sort of "channeling" of a link to the original casting of that miracle. But miracles and sorceries are so close that it seems probable that the original casting was actual sorcery, not miracles. After all, how would the original casting take place? It's not like Gwyn had heard legends of his sunlight spears before he first casted it. But we know that the Lords were using their soul as a sort of "catalyst" (Or its so powerful that they don't NEED to focus it), and we know that sorceries definitely use the power of the soul. Miracles = using a gods power to cast a sorcery, anyone?

    Now, the Lord and Dark Souls themselves. The Dark Soul was divided up into humanity. Now, humanity, when used, is actually used up. Restore your humanity? That's a humanity down the drain. Kindling? Same deal. Now, it's possible that it's because each one is just a tiny "package" of energy, but what if it isn't? The Lord Souls have, arguably, been used MUCH more. They fought and killed an entire PLANET of dragons. Not one, or two, or a dozen, but a PLANETFUL. Thousands, if not millions or BILLIONS of dragons, all exterminated by the Lords. That is a LONG damn time, of what is probably constant use. And then the Witch even goes and "recreates" the flame after that, and yet her lord soul is still there, albeit somewhat weaker.

    "From the dark, they came." Has anyone considered the possibility that this doesn't mean the lords, but instead means the serpents? Could it be that they manipulated the mortal races into killing the dragons? It leaves the question of why, but why do they do anything they do? Why would Kaathe want humans to rule the world?

    "Arch" (Archtrees) means Eminent, or having authority over something. This implies that the Archtrees were the first trees, and they got "weaker" from there.

    "Then" can mean "At that Time". "But then there was fire" = "But at that time there was fire." So screw you Dough, the dragons didn't exist before the flame! silly

    Why is Frampt known as the Kingseeker? KAATHE is the one looking for his "lord," and writers don't just include stuff like that for no reason.

    The Witch of Izalith is covered in spider webs in the intro, which is ironic considering what two of her daughters turn into.

    The Pygmy's soul shown during the animation is by no means dark. It's just smaller than the other ones.


    The Miracles thing is something I’ve not really thought
    about until I read that but what you’re saying does make sense. Just to add to
    my reasoning from my first post. The intro talks about light and dark, life and
    death, So I always just assumed light=life and dark=death in the souls universe.
    With that being said, that is why I said the Lord’s Souls seem to be the key to
    immortality and the Dark Soul being the key to controlling it. When the first
    flame first came into being it was strong and the Lords Souls flourished enough
    so that they could take down the dragons. Also, even in the intro the Dark Soul
    looks tiny not as powerful. Which to me means, as the First Flame weakens so do
    the Lords Souls, however; what makes the Dark Soul special is that it grows
    stronger with that weakening aka. As light dims darkness consumes everything.


    I like when you talked about the Dark Soul it seems to mesh
    well into what I’m getting at.


    “Shkar: Now, the Lord and Dark Souls themselves. The Dark
    Soul was divided up into humanity. Now, humanity, when used, is actually used
    up. Restore your humanity? That's a humanity down the drain. Kindling? Same
    deal. Now, it's possible that it's because each one is just a tiny
    "package" of energy, but what if it isn't? The Lord Souls have,
    arguably, been used MUCH more.”


    So by feeding Darkness (Dark Soul) to the fire it disappears
    and strengthens you or the flame which you are kindling. Therefore, by getting
    rid of some darkness you are strengthening light. This makes me wonder why
    getting rid of darkness (Dark Soul) would strengthen you? Are you empowered by
    light? So what would happen if you tossed the entire thing (Dark Soul) into the
    fire? This is I think where Frampt and Kaathe disagree. Frampt believes if he
    takes and uses the power of the Lords Souls and can remove the Dark Sign from
    the undead thus allowing souls to come to them freely. No more of this Immortality
    (undead) crap. However, Kaathe sees the Dark Soul for what it is. To be able to
    control that power keep the souls flowing at his discretion. I think the
    Kingseeker/Darkstalker titles are really just another name for their factions.
    If Frampt fools you and makes you think you will become king you’ll relink the
    flame without even thinking, and in a way Kaathe is being more truthful to you.
    However, that does not mean you are not being strung along by him, you would
    still be just his pawn.


    Anyways, I enjoyed reading your post please keep the
    discussion going this is great. Thanks for your time!
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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Wilkinson3424 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:55 pm

    Shkar we talked about this last night.


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    Re: How I see the Dark Souls world. spoilers/speculation

    Post by Shkar on Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:27 pm

    Wilkinson3424 wrote:Shkar we talked about this last night.

    I know, but I said I'd post what I'd thought up here.


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