Honour In dark souls PVP explained

Alright, lets get my motives for this post out of the way first. This is not, i repeat NOT a rant about what i believe to be cheap and or not cheap. This is simply where/ when i feel that honor deserves too be implemented into dark souls PVP. This is inspired by a topic i read on here during work so if i use an idea somebody else shared then understand i'm not trying to steal your idea, i simply do not remember your name (sorry lol).

One person on the forum i read stated that he believed " Honor has no place in dark souls and was not intended to be in the game". Now this statement however understandable is incorrect. The item RSSD's description clearly states that some phantoms stayed down an honorable path when invading. People using this item should be treated with respect as they are summoned into your world as duelists not invaders.

Now, where and when should honor be used in PVP in this game? I will start with the when. It is simple. When both players bow. Proof of this comes from real world fighting of all sorts, these sports whether it be boxing/ufc/fencing all have some sort of "bow" so to speak where both players engage each other honestly. When boxers fist pump each other they are wishing the other good luck in the fight and agreeing to the rules that the league has set on the match. After this point you do not expect for boxer A to take out a baseball bat and whack the other in the head. This same principle can be applied to dark souls PVP. If both players bow then you should be expected to fight with honor. If one does not bow? Then the gloves come off and it is a brawl.

Now for where honor should be followed. The dark souls map is huge, and as such duelers and invaders have places where they can do both seperately. Invasions should take place in any place that has terrain that can be used to their advantage, this is a huge facter in invading. Dueling spots include the burg and the kiln. These places are in the shape of an arena and as such should be treated as one. Within these "arenas" allow people to duel and follow a set of rules placed on the matches. The maps big enough to allow duelers a place where they can duel in peace.

Finally for the most important thing of all to consider. NOT ALL PLAYERS WILL FOLLOW THE RULES. It is simple, people wish to win their matches. You must learn how to counter people using "cheap" tactics instead of being a baby about it. If somebody rushes your back at the start of the match then backstep, kick him and unleash a backstab of your own. If you cannot adopt to the way players play a game, you should not be playing the game.

PS, if i mentioned something that you said in negative light, it was not meant with malicious intent. It was simply a personal disagreement that i have with what you said. Do not take it personally as i was attacking an "idea" more so as the person who wrote it.

Very good explanation, the idea is pretty simple and fun to follow. +1

Well said! Bravo!

Thanks, I don't wish to spark more controversy but to rather explain from both sides of the spector. I am a huge flip flopper and have fun doing both unhonorable PVP and dueling. But i think there is a time for place for both and both sides need to understand that instead of restricting themselves to arguing their side.

rywhitty222 wrote:Thanks, I don't wish to spark more controversy but to rather explain from both sides of the spector. I am a huge flip flopper and have fun doing both unhonorable PVP and dueling. But i think there is a time for place for both and both sides need to understand that instead of restricting themselves to arguing their side.

Exactly, i try to always duel, but when it comes to that time when it's just not gonna work, throw off the gloves and let em have it!

I agree with your rules on dueling. What would you say is proper ettiquete for invasions (and Im asking rywhitty this NO ONE ELSE)/ sessions where you are making use of a covenant item to achieve PvP?

+1 for bringing up a contentious topic but putting it in such a light as it doesnt offend or establish your playstyle as a 'truth'. Eloquent phrasing there ry.

You on PSN? Duel me!

Also it was malicious ( Im not trying to be a total prick when I correct people Im trying to help them)

ViralEnsign_ wrote:I agree with your rules on dueling. What would you say is proper ettiquete for invasions (and Im asking rywhitty this NO ONE ELSE)/ sessions where you are making use of a covenant item to achieve PvP?

+1 for bringing up a contentious topic but putting it in such a light as it doesnt offend or establish your playstyle as a 'truth'. Eloquent phrasing there ry.

You on PSN? Duel me!

Also it was malicious ( Im not trying to be a total prick when I correct people Im trying to help them)

First off, THANK YOU. I spent like 5 minutes trying trying to spell that stupid word..

And as far as dark wraith and blade of the darkmoon invasions. I feel like all gloves are off unless both players bow indicating they wish to duel. I will never fish for a backstab because it is a tactic that i personally despise. But if i am fished to death during a darkwraith/ blade fight then that is my fault not my opponents.

And finally, this goes for you as well as anyone else on PSN, if you wish to duel add rywhitty222 and send me a message when i'm on. I love to duel strong players.

rywhitty222 wrote:

ViralEnsign_ wrote:I agree with your rules on dueling. What would you say is proper ettiquete for invasions (and Im asking rywhitty this NO ONE ELSE)/ sessions where you are making use of a covenant item to achieve PvP?

+1 for bringing up a contentious topic but putting it in such a light as it doesnt offend or establish your playstyle as a 'truth'. Eloquent phrasing there ry.

You on PSN? Duel me!

Also it was malicious ( Im not trying to be a total prick when I correct people Im trying to help them)

First off, THANK YOU. I spent like 5 minutes trying trying to spell that stupid word..

And as far as dark wraith and blade of the darkmoon invasions. I feel like all gloves are off unless both players bow indicating they wish to duel. I will never fish for a backstab because it is a tactic that i personally despise. But if i am fished to death during a darkwraith/ blade fight then that is my fault not my opponents.

And finally, this goes for you as well as anyone else on PSN, if you wish to duel add rywhitty222 and send me a message when i'm on. I love to duel strong players.

I assure you Im not a strong player. Just ruthless to Darkwraiths, serious against SoV's, and mild to average at dueling.

ViralEnsign_ wrote:

rywhitty222 wrote:

ViralEnsign_ wrote:I agree with your rules on dueling. What would you say is proper ettiquete for invasions (and Im asking rywhitty this NO ONE ELSE)/ sessions where you are making use of a covenant item to achieve PvP?

+1 for bringing up a contentious topic but putting it in such a light as it doesnt offend or establish your playstyle as a 'truth'. Eloquent phrasing there ry.

You on PSN? Duel me!

Also it was malicious ( Im not trying to be a total prick when I correct people Im trying to help them)

First off, THANK YOU. I spent like 5 minutes trying trying to spell that stupid word..

And as far as dark wraith and blade of the darkmoon invasions. I feel like all gloves are off unless both players bow indicating they wish to duel. I will never fish for a backstab because it is a tactic that i personally despise. But if i am fished to death during a darkwraith/ blade fight then that is my fault not my opponents.

And finally, this goes for you as well as anyone else on PSN, if you wish to duel add rywhitty222 and send me a message when i'm on. I love to duel strong players.

I assure you Im not a strong player. Just ruthless to Darkwraiths, serious against SoV's, and mild to average at dueling.

Fine with me, allow me re phrase that. I enjoy dueling with anyone that is a big enough fan to follow forums,

And just to clear things up, i dont consider myself that great either, thats part of the reason i like playing good players. Helps me learn

Then Im keen. What time zone do you adhere to?

Im pacific NZ time.

My time zone is eastern canada. Usually online during the night as i work all day most days :/

It's impossible to fully explain the honour in PvP and obviously there's always exceptions to what many of us follow.

Despite these facts though, a rather good attempt at explaining the whole situation.

Also, never seen you on here before, so welcome to our Forum

Nice well we may match up after all.

Serious_Much wrote:It's impossible to fully explain the honour in PvP and obviously there's always exceptions to what many of us follow.

Despite these facts though, a rather good attempt at explaining the whole situation.

Also, never seen you on here before, so welcome to our Forum

Thanks for the warm welcome, although ive stalked the forums for a month or two i just started posting recently.

As for your claim that it is "impossible" to fully explain the honor, i agree. That is why i strayed away from what is considered "honorable" and instead went more or less for the situations in which honor should be implemented. Everyone's opinions differ so what "honor" is exactly is impossible to explain. But i feel that if players know when to use it, the community could benefit overall.

ViralEnsign_ wrote:Nice well we may match up after all.

Good to hear, hope im within a time zone where i can get duels with a lot of people within the forum

rywhitty222 wrote:

Serious_Much wrote:It's impossible to fully explain the honour in PvP and obviously there's always exceptions to what many of us follow.

Despite these facts though, a rather good attempt at explaining the whole situation.

Also, never seen you on here before, so welcome to our Forum

Thanks for the warm welcome, although ive stalked the forums for a month or two i just started posting recently.

As for your claim that it is "impossible" to fully explain the honor, i agree. That is why i strayed away from what is considered "honorable" and instead went more or less for the situations in which honor should be implemented. Everyone's opinions differ so what "honor" is exactly is impossible to explain. But i feel that if players know when to use it, the community could benefit overall.

Yeah I figure Dark souls is the mirror of the human soul....... and right now that soul is a black as sin.....

ViralEnsign_ wrote:

rywhitty222 wrote:

Serious_Much wrote:It's impossible to fully explain the honour in PvP and obviously there's always exceptions to what many of us follow.

Despite these facts though, a rather good attempt at explaining the whole situation.

Also, never seen you on here before, so welcome to our Forum

Thanks for the warm welcome, although ive stalked the forums for a month or two i just started posting recently.

As for your claim that it is "impossible" to fully explain the honor, i agree. That is why i strayed away from what is considered "honorable" and instead went more or less for the situations in which honor should be implemented. Everyone's opinions differ so what "honor" is exactly is impossible to explain. But i feel that if players know when to use it, the community could benefit overall.

Yeah I figure Dark souls is the mirror of the human soul....... and right now that soul is a black as sin.....

PBCT to be exact :|

Honor is just crap we made up to make duels more fun.

bloodpixel wrote:Honor is just crap we made up to make duels more fun.

And for a lot of people the honor system does make the game more fun. A lot of players play strictly for duels. And although i find glove off invasions a fun change in pace. I find duels with these strict rules a personal favorite way to play the game. For this reason i feel that certain parts of the dark souls map, should be for honorable duels only, and other areas should be for the gloves off kind of play

Or I should have said as black as a Pure Black Soul Tendency.... for the added DeS pun!

There are exactly two kinds of fights I engage in in Dark Souls. Those where I use whatever it takes to win, backstabs, 6 casts of WoG Flipping around in Giantmom, I am really at heart one of those 'no fun' jerks.

But I do so only because it's just the best, it's what works. I've always been a fan of optimization and flipping giantmom is pretty optimal (77 poise amazing defence 2k+ health with FaP easily) Backstabs, stunlocks, buffs all just tools to use in a fight.

However, quite recently I started posting here, much like yourself I had lurked for some time. Last weekend was an event I took part in that I read about here, the gravelord invasion of thee Parish. Now my first inclination was to simply bring a +5 Chaos Estoc and 16 Casts of GC while flipping around.

I didn't. There were rules, +5 normal weapons, level appropriate armor, no fully upgraded pyro gloves ect. At first I begrudgingly accepted these rules, but as I was invaded, and invaded others I noticed Myself and others were playing viciously to win. When you're health pool is tiny your weapon does little and you have no scaling stats and half a stamina bar you start to do weird things. In the end I was using poison mist and arrows/knives/resin to poison my victims then pressuring them until they fell over or they tried to eat some moss (at which point they usually met the wrong end of a sword) I recall getting hit in the face by, of all thing a fire orb, not Great Chaos Fireball...just Fire Orb. and it hurt. I was poked with spears, chopped with axes, whacked by clubs, pelted with arrows. I was 3v1 or 1v3 at times. And it was amazing.

the whole experience made me realize my desire to optimize can be put to use anywhere, the upcomming sl25 samurai/ninja fights... tons of limitations, still theres an optimal build somewhere in there and I plan to find it. SL 99 arena fights? I am very closely watching the thread and taking note of peoples builds and I'd like to get into that too.

Fundamentally if everyone just had random invasions/hosts of SL120 duels I'd be done with the game. What works well for me at 120 is known, there is perhaps room for discovery but it's getting thinner. But the community, some genius decides to designate a no poise dueling area, no I have to learn to play without poise against people with no poise and figure out what works best then. SL80 no DWGR no buffs Sen's fortress? Another set of skills and builds I get to adapt to and enjoy. Heck someone could decide SL43 full Elite Knights Set only and you only get one ring, the second ring slot must be empty. I'd try it.

And if not for the great community I wouldn't get to type in my rambling way about a game I enjoy. The Community IS the honor in dark souls, you all should be proud

Jansports wrote:There are exactly two kinds of fights I engage in in Dark Souls. Those where I use whatever it takes to win, backstabs, 6 casts of WoG Flipping around in Giantmom, I am really at heart one of those 'no fun' jerks.

But I do so only because it's just the best, it's what works. I've always been a fan of optimization and flipping giantmom is pretty optimal (77 poise amazing defence 2k+ health with FaP easily) Backstabs, stunlocks, buffs all just tools to use in a fight.

However, quite recently I started posting here, much like yourself I had lurked for some time. Last weekend was an event I took part in that I read about here, the gravelord invasion of thee Parish. Now my first inclination was to simply bring a +5 Chaos Estoc and 16 Casts of GC while flipping around.

I didn't. There were rules, +5 normal weapons, level appropriate armor, no fully upgraded pyro gloves ect. At first I begrudgingly accepted these rules, but as I was invaded, and invaded others I noticed Myself and others were playing viciously to win. When you're health pool is tiny your weapon does little and you have no scaling stats and half a stamina bar you start to do weird things. In the end I was using poison mist and arrows/knives/resin to poison my victims then pressuring them until they fell over or they tried to eat some moss (at which point they usually met the wrong end of a sword) I recall getting hit in the face by, of all thing a fire orb, not Great Chaos Fireball...just Fire Orb. and it hurt. I was poked with spears, chopped with axes, whacked by clubs, pelted with arrows. I was 3v1 or 1v3 at times. And it was amazing.

the whole experience made me realize my desire to optimize can be put to use anywhere, the upcomming sl25 samurai/ninja fights... tons of limitations, still theres an optimal build somewhere in there and I plan to find it. SL 99 arena fights? I am very closely watching the thread and taking note of peoples builds and I'd like to get into that too.

Fundamentally if everyone just had random invasions/hosts of SL120 duels I'd be done with the game. What works well for me at 120 is known, there is perhaps room for discovery but it's getting thinner. But the community, some genius decides to designate a no poise dueling area, no I have to learn to play without poise against people with no poise and figure out what works best then. SL80 no DWGR no buffs Sen's fortress? Another set of skills and builds I get to adapt to and enjoy. Heck someone could decide SL43 full Elite Knights Set only and you only get one ring, the second ring slot must be empty. I'd try it.

And if not for the great community I wouldn't get to type in my rambling way about a game I enjoy. The Community IS the honor in dark souls, you all should be proud

Thats a good point, although its relation to honor escapes me
still very good post, its nice to hear how playing with people on the forum has changed your perspective.

Very nice explanation, it's short and simple, but very well made. It isn't needlessly complicated, and to the point. Very well done, as well to my knowledge it doesn't put down anyone or say "This way is the best." Very great work, and if I haven't said it already, welcome to the forum!