str builds are now popular? HOW?

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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:28 am

    Strength weapons do a lot of damage and if used well then can pull of MASSIVE combos. If the only way your looking for only stunlocking then get a *** BKGA or Ultra Greatsword and get parried out the ***.. Strength weapons, in my eyes anyway, mean slow, harder to hit with but deal a lot more damage. My strength builds are slow rolling with around 60 poise and 400 some defence with a heater shield. There is NOTHING wrong with slow moving because there isn't no counter to casters.. If you do the simple act of timing your dodges then casters won't hit.. slow tanks aren't really susceptible to casters if they use the havel's shield as well. 90 magic and 80 80 fire lighting, spamming css or dark mage into their shield doesn't do much, and if you have an off-hand dark hand you can parry the dudes using shotels or just stunlock em or bait em into a hit.. Strength takes more tactics than dex.. dex weapons are simple to use with very little real though or skill involved imo. Also, a tank gets more armor and poise compared to most ninja flippers.. up to 2x or 3x poise.. so being a tank (it is still viable in ps3 before patch as well..) is perectly viable and works out very well


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:17 pm

    One of the biggest advantages of the Greatswords R2 attack is that it WILL stun the opponent. Mini-maxers never have more then 77 poise, so its great for those backstab fishers who cap their poise then hunt the backstab exclusively. It's the fastest R2 that breaks the 77 poise mini-max value.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:31 pm

    Rynn wrote:One of the biggest advantages of the Greatswords R2 attack is that it WILL stun the opponent. Mini-maxers never have more then 77 poise, so its great for those backstab fishers who cap their poise then hunt the backstab exclusively. It's the fastest R2 that breaks the 77 poise mini-max value.

    Alright, I do understand hating those poise maxing bs fishers but they're not hard to counter. When it comes to greatswords, how I see it, they have more of a moveset then R1,R1,R1,R1,R1. Use it, the stun per hit is useful if your righting low poise but, the claymore for example, has an AMAZING moveset and very good damage. I use an Enchanted Claymore +5 on my 50 int build and a +15 Claymore on my 150 gravelord quality build. I use a man serpant greatsword on my strength build (mixed with 100 different other weps haha) and I never stunlock with it, because i'm on pc, but it's moveset leaves you so many options.


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:33 pm

    The higher poise per hit has uses against many other opponents. In the competitive playing field PvP has become, noone goes above 77 or 82 at the most poise, so having that R2 thrust not only offers the opportunity for 1450+ damage leo ring hits, but it also breaks nearly any PvPers poise. mentioning how it's not worthless was to state using things other then an R1 spam can be majorly effective with that weapon.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:44 pm

    Rynn wrote:The higher poise per hit has uses against many other opponents. In the competitive playing field PvP has become, noone goes above 77 or 82 at the most poise, so having that R2 thrust not only offers the opportunity for 1450+ damage leo ring hits, but it also breaks nearly any PvPers poise. mentioning how it's not worthless was to state using things other then an R1 spam can be majorly effective with that weapon.

    Isn't that what I did say :|


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Siegfried. on Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:41 pm

    Rynn wrote:One of the biggest advantages of the Greatswords R2 attack is that it WILL stun the opponent. Mini-maxers never have more then 77 poise, so its great for those backstab fishers who cap their poise then hunt the backstab exclusively. It's the fastest R2 that breaks the 77 poise mini-max value.

    I presume this is unlocked? A thrust is easy to sidestep, even one so low, so trying to greatsword thrust a backstab fisher while locked on seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ChizFreak on Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:44 pm

    Most STR builds are easy to parry. Also stunlocks are no more a common thing. Greatswords can't stunlock now, and they were the most used weapon by mid-str builds. Now you're going to see floods of guys using katanas buffed and guys with ultra-greatswords.


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:28 am

    ChizFreak wrote:Most STR builds are easy to parry. Also stunlocks are no more a common thing. Greatswords can't stunlock now, and they were the most used weapon by mid-str builds. Now you're going to see floods of guys using katanas buffed and guys with ultra-greatswords.

    They can stunlock, you just gotta use the moveset better to stunlock than you used to


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:30 am

    Siegfried. wrote:
    Rynn wrote:One of the biggest advantages of the Greatswords R2 attack is that it WILL stun the opponent. Mini-maxers never have more then 77 poise, so its great for those backstab fishers who cap their poise then hunt the backstab exclusively. It's the fastest R2 that breaks the 77 poise mini-max value.

    I presume this is unlocked? A thrust is easy to sidestep, even one so low, so trying to greatsword thrust a backstab fisher while locked on seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
    Who uses lockon...? Like really, i'm not locked on a good 75% of the time.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:34 am

    Rynn wrote:
    Siegfried. wrote:
    Rynn wrote:One of the biggest advantages of the Greatswords R2 attack is that it WILL stun the opponent. Mini-maxers never have more then 77 poise, so its great for those backstab fishers who cap their poise then hunt the backstab exclusively. It's the fastest R2 that breaks the 77 poise mini-max value.

    I presume this is unlocked? A thrust is easy to sidestep, even one so low, so trying to greatsword thrust a backstab fisher while locked on seems like a recipe for disaster to me.
    Who uses lockon...? Like really, i'm not locked on a good 75% of the time.

    Lockon for blocks and dodges, offlock for attacking. I'm locked on 50% of the time .


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 am

    Also most backstab fishers start sprinting when they see me doing a power attack, so this tends to do 1450-1800 damage, since i use the leo ring in combat...

    Seriously, you guys have NO idea how overpowered this weapon can be x_x... i'm glad there is a major learning curve on it.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by befowler on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:06 pm

    I did not realize the greatsword R2 benefited from the leo ring. I have been using leo + bss on my midrollers and it is already pretty epic - I think I have a new project now.


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:15 pm

    The greatswords rolling attack and it's R2 both benefit from the Leo Ring, as the sword is capable of thrust damage.

    The Zweihander, despite having a thrust for a roll attack, doesn't do thrust damage.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:35 pm

    I missed this whole topic, but i made a sl99 STR build (40vit45end50str). I was using it in the burg(current console patch) and was actually doing pretty well. That was with medium roll might i add. I will say that havels shield is great, and worth using. Also i had a surprising amount of success with a medium rolling Smough set up. Having havels shield though is much better, i also use the dark hand in my offhand for parrying. You just have to get much more used to not always rolling around, and being more patient with attacks and movement. The shield helps a lot due to its defense, cause if you need to you can take a CSS or Great Combustion.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:36 pm

    Btw, also of major note.
    Smough's hammer is FAR bigger then it looks, you can hit people from miles away with it.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:58 pm

    Well it has an annoying AOE of damage around the actual attack when it lands, at least it really seems that way. Same with the other large hammers, although smoughs seems to have the largest.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:02 pm

    Smough has the largest range of all hammers. I've considered using it before, but it's so heavy :c
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by ssss_2_is_pwnage on Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:41 pm

    Rynn wrote:Smough has the largest range of all hammers. I've considered using it before, but it's so heavy :c

    I'm using a Duel Smough Hammer Smough face **** build. :3


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:42 pm

    Rynn wrote:Smough has the largest range of all hammers. I've considered using it before, but it's so heavy :c

    Actually I compared the ranges and the Dragon Tooth is the longest, followed by the Great Club. However as Smough's is so big it could have more AoE and better chance to hit someone from the side.


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by FruitPunchNinja on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:43 pm

    well going to 58str isn't worth it, i just always 2h it which works fine. This is my smough build(General STR build also), which is actually really fun. http://tinyurl.com/8qag3gm the shield is literally just cause it looks cool lol, although it did actually come in handy once.


    And my normal set up, really like this one. I really need to practice more with medium roll, cause if i was able to pull of wins against ninja flipping tanks then i will do fine come the patch. http://tinyurl.com/8qn6hto
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by WyrmHero on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:48 pm

    Yeah 58 Str is not worth 650 AR, and the one handed R2 is too slow even after doing a backstab. The one handed roll attack however is pretty awesome (360 swipe).


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by befowler on Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:24 pm

    Grinding up a greatsword user now. Never really used an UGS before so definitely a learning curve, but it has been fun. Getting very inconsistent leo ring results too since the R2 stabs are harder to time until I get better with the weapon, but on the plus side the greatsword just looks awesome. Just a purely utilitarian, brutal looking weapon. I love the style.

    If anyone has any pro tips on how best to use this, I am all ears. Unfortunately, this guy will probably be a midroller since I'm capping at sl60 for now, so that may affect the viability of roll attacks.


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by XuitusTheGreat on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:33 pm

    fight lock disengaged happy only advice I can really give


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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by Rynn on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:41 pm

    befowler wrote:Grinding up a greatsword user now. Never really used an UGS before so definitely a learning curve, but it has been fun. Getting very inconsistent leo ring results too since the R2 stabs are harder to time until I get better with the weapon, but on the plus side the greatsword just looks awesome. Just a purely utilitarian, brutal looking weapon. I love the style.

    If anyone has any pro tips on how best to use this, I am all ears. Unfortunately, this guy will probably be a midroller since I'm capping at sl60 for now, so that may affect the viability of roll attacks.
    Ok, i have 4 pieces of advice.

    1: The two handed R2 takes 110 poise to block. This is more poise then most people get on a char.
    2: If you mash light attack, people parry the second attack, but rarely try to get the first. This is called a setup parry. Do your first attack locked on, then lock-off and face 90 degree's away. Your second attack will dead angle, and as they are trying to parry, you'll get counter damage of 700+ a hit. You can then, if you stunned, hit them with a third and fourth blow finishing them off.
    3: The rolling attack is about 1.4 times longer then your light attack, but it's very predictable and easy to parry. Don't use it as a primary attack or people will avoid it. Only do it once every three or four rolls.
    4: Leo Ring + R2 Thrusting Attack + Backstab Fishers + Dead Angle = 1400-1900 damage depending on armor.
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    Re: str builds are now popular? HOW?

    Post by befowler on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:32 pm

    Thanks Rynn, that is great advice and info. I'm already seeing the benefits. My guy is sl55 (may cap there or at 60) and I am using a greatsword +15 and fire resin even though this is probably less optimal than an elemental greatsword at my low level, in anticipation of
    Spoiler:
    DLC elemental nerfs
    . But even with this setup, the stunlocking and hitbox is crazy. It staggers almost everybody -- you can even stunlock Smough and Ornstein with it until you run out of stamina! And it's really easy to play 100% locked off. Plus the fire resin on it looks absolutely awesome, I had people break and run as soon as I put the torch on. The BSS will always be my baby, but this big daddy version of it is exceptionally fun to use. I particularly love the backstep then run forward overhead slam attack, which surprises the daylights out of people.


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