Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

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    Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:40 am

    Hey everyone,

    Looks like some people disagree on what these terms actually mean.

    This is how I know them as:

    Griefer:
    Someone that invades at low level with high level gear with the goal of killing new players/defenseless players. This does not include players that invade with regular gear, or people looking for a low level fight.

    Ganker:
    Someone that waits with 1 or more summoned phantoms to 'farm' invading phantoms through any means necessary. This doesn't include new phantoms that don't stand a chance otherwise and are learning the ropes of PvP.

    Troll:
    This one I'm unclear about. I think people use it to mean someone that either hosts or invades and uses questionable tactics. Some guys on youtube had a video that had him invading in the Painted World, and a guy in Smoughs w. MotC waiting for him on the bridge. The guy would buff with DMB and fight. This guy considered this a troll for some reason; I'm not sure why forcing someone to fight on a bridge makes someone a troll. He didn't have any advantage this guy didn't/couldn't do. So "troll" I don't know what it means.

    Is this the general consensus from everyone else?


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Dante_000 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:43 am

    I agree with both the definitions of Griever and Ganker, For Troll I always thought it was someone who would, for example, Use the bridges in the Catacombs to kill you, or hide behind enemies instead of fighting you right out.
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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:46 am

    On the bridge there is no way to back up. All they have to do is push you and you'll fall to your death. Whoever is on the land side of the bridge has completely advantage over whoever is at the abyss side.

    I'd just say a Griefer is anyone doing something with the intent of causing grief to others. As the word suggests, their goal is to cause others grief. Though of course low level invading in BB gear is a prime candidate and one of the few cases in which case they must have known it causes others grief.

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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:48 am

    Troll: So someone that uses 'questionable' tactics? That's pretty hard to define.

    Well you could put every invader into griefer then... can you supply some actual examples?

    Big edit:
    Well you could put every invader into the TROLL category then... can you supply some actual examples?


    Last edited by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:50 am

    "I'm going to duel this guy to challenge myself and give my opponent a challenge."-Invader.

    "I'm going to invade this guy at a low level who has no reasonable way of killing me, then when he dies wait for the oncoming hate mail. I can just hear him crying!"-Griefer.

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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:35 pm

    Right. The troll on the bridge example I don't buy since it's a one on one fight in a limited space; it's very similar to Anor Londo and waiting for someone to try and cross the rafters.

    I just see that as controlling the fight. Just like a 1 on 1 fight in the Forest is different than the burg, and different spells/gear is more applicable to one than the other.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:45 pm

    The issue is you spawn on the bridge, so it isn't that the enemy fell for a trap which you sprung. It's that the invader inherently is at a disadvantage completely. While I can run away from the rafters and wait out my enemy, on the bridge I have no such option. I wasn't tricked into a corner or out played. I invaded, so I had an inherent disadvantage.

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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:47 pm

    But knowing you spawn on the bridge, you can gear up for that initial possibility; if it doesn't occur, then swap your gear out.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Tolvo on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:50 pm

    As well the PW is a dueling zone where people invade near the bonfire, go up the steps and duel. It's pretty common practice. So when you invade and suddenly you are stuck in the middle of a bridge fight, when people know in the area that there is a lot of dueling. It's considered rude behavior. In simply that they are farming invaders, intentionally in a situation which they know will give them kills because they know that people invade there. It's similar to spawn camping with TwoP in effect, and Crystal Soul Spears flying at your face as you can't roll. They are doing something that is unnecessary, and takes advantage of the fact that they know people are there to PvP killing them in a way they could not have properly dealt with. It isn't that the player lost out on skill or because of rock paper scissors. It's punishing them just for the act of invading.

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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:19 pm

    Eh I don't agree that it's the same as TWoP + Soul Spears but if they were doing that on the bridge, then yeah, I'd agree that's trolling. Just a fight in a corridor straight up doesn't seem so bad.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Glutebrah on Thu Sep 27, 2012 2:30 pm

    a troll would be the group of 3 guys all wearing Smoughs with 10 stacks of Force only spamming force at you when you invade the dropping you a humanity to leave.

    yes these people exist and they are awesome.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:15 pm

    So a troll is a joker? Someone that tries to make people laugh?


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Mr. Tart on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:22 pm

    I'd probably say, a troll, to me, is someone who tries to provoke another player through tactics that would easily piss someone off, like, for example using the bridges in the catacombs. But that's just my opinion, as for the griefers and gankers, i think about the gankers the exact way you described them, while the griefers, to me, aren't necessarily people equipped with ''high level gear'', but simply, like Tolvo said, people ''with the intent of causing grief to others''.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:43 pm

    That is such a loose term though. Every invader is trying to kill the host; whether it causes grief to the host or not is dependant on a great deal of factors that the invader doesn't know about.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Mr. Tart on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:55 pm

    So may be, but a griefer is typically the kind of person that has the intent of causing grief over anything else, whether they actually know about what would cause the host this kind of grief or not doesn't really matter in the end, does it? As it's really the thought that counts, or am i wrong?


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by callipygias on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:53 pm

    Agree with Mark's def of griefer and ganker.

    To me 'troll' is a sort of generic word. Especially since it's equally popular as a noun and an adjective. If I had to get specific on my idea of a 'troll' it'd be the people whose goal is to entertain themselves by being purposefully obnoxious, like the guys who drop items by a terminal fall and kick a player off the cliff when they go to grab it. Basically players whose goal is to embarrass someone else. To me trolling is usually no big deal, it's just kids entertaining themselves. It's often entertaining for the trolled one too.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Krasouski on Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:32 pm

    Scraping spear,nuff said...
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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by lordgodofhell on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:47 pm

    Trolling from my point of view (before Dark Souls) has always been someone who is hell bent on wasting your time. This general term when applied to Dark Souls could mean someone who constantly DBs, runs away from fights, etc. Although killing you may be the Trolls final mission, it is not his only mission.

    It is the "time waste" that defines a troll imo. One who absolutely knows you are in his world for a duel/fight, but instead of dueling or ganking you, they instead do weird things to make you spend more time in their world than you normally would.

    There is also, the "bridge Troll" term that I get from mid evil times like games, books, movies. Where there is literally a Troll who patrols and guards an area or bridge.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Reaperfan on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:12 pm

    Griefer: A player who plays with the intent of creating a negative gameplay experience for someone else. Their goal is to make actually playing the game impossible for someone else.

    Ganker: A player who uses the advantages of location and numbers to create helpless situations for their opponents by providing them no openings or preparation. Their goal is to defeat the opponent on uneven grounds.

    Troll: A player who plays with the intent of creating a negative emotional experience for another player. Their goal is to frustrate and annoy on an emotional level, making playing the game unenjoyable.


    The best PvP experiences are had when all players involved had a good time. These three classes of players are frowned upon because they present the image of a person who derives enjoyment not from the PvP activity itself, but from the suffering of others. Personal honor codes may vary and define what we look for in an optimal PvP experience, but these players make it clear that they aren't looking at the game as a PvP experience and instead as a form of bullying.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by VinheimProfessor on Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:26 am

    I think there can be two types of trolls: 1) One who fits the fantasy archetype of doing things, standing in a place or using a setup that just makes your experience as annoying as possible. Standing near the first or second switch in the Catacombs to keep you from progressing for no reason at all. 2) Then the TroLoL variety; they'll do things that seem annoying but could make you laugh. For example: Throwing prism stones all over the ground near a cliff in the Darkroot Garden, and then hitting invaders with a giant arrow launched from a Silver Knight Greatbow. At first you'd be annoyed, but then you'd think of Anor Londo, and would have to lol.


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    Re: Definition of terms: Griefer, Ganker, Troll

    Post by Rynn on Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:10 am

    A troll is a person that attempts to invoke negative attention from others for amusement.
    A griefer is a person that attempts to invoke anger or frustration from others with their actions. A griefer, unlike most trolls, looks to do longterm harm a lot of the time... killing NPc's, is one example.
    A ganker is a person that, with the assistance of others, exploits the use of phantoms to make PvP an unfair 1 vs 2 or 3 situation. Please note exploiting phantoms does not mean i feel they are miausing the game feature, it's meant in the same way as exploiting your dodge dutton to get out of awkward high fives.

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