heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:37 pm

    Rynn wrote:We're saying it sucks because the katana can do 600 damage while swinging twice as fast, letting the build have more HP, and still maintaining 77 poise.

    Let me know how to make a katana do 600 damage and have that much poise please.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Rynn on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:46 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Rynn wrote:We're saying it sucks because the katana can do 600 damage while swinging twice as fast, letting the build have more HP, and still maintaining 77 poise.

    Let me know how to make a katana do 600 damage and have that much poise please.
    http://tinyurl.com/92m3hc4
    That's actually a really easy order to fill. This katana will do 700 damage a hit.
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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:49 pm

    Movement speed.

    Against 370 defense? the r1 of my maxed crystal dgm does just under 500 against that defense. Want to guess what damage a bss does with its r2? 400. With the leo ring it reaches 600, and thats with comporable speed and reach to a ug weapons r1. Its also a weak dex weapon, katana hit harder. The washing pole has longer reach and hits harder.

    This isn't counting the ability to use weapon buffs that ug weapon builds will have to sacrifice where dex builds won't.

    The builds in your sig right? Notice the str build has lower defenses and doesn't have the free ring slot. If you stuck havels ring on the same build you'd have 10 extra units for armor.

    One can't prove ones point by comparing apples and oranges, hence the identical setups on my part.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:15 pm

    Rynn wrote:
    Glutebrah wrote:
    Rynn wrote:We're saying it sucks because the katana can do 600 damage while swinging twice as fast, letting the build have more HP, and still maintaining 77 poise.

    Let me know how to make a katana do 600 damage and have that much poise please.
    http://tinyurl.com/92m3hc4
    That's actually a really easy order to fill. This katana will do 700 damage a hit.

    That has 26 vitality though, and buffs are easy to Dodge.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:25 pm

    and my points? what about those?


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:34 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:and my points? what about those?

    Compare R2s to R2s... yea the Leo ring is insane, now use that with a zwei, great sword, DGM rolling attack.


    Replace my chest piece with the dingy chest and the str build vets a lot more defense. I dress for looks though, and dingy is ugly.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Rynn on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:37 pm

    "Buffs are easy to dodge" is the largest logical falacy i've ever heard in this game. No opponent can claim to never get hit, and unless you never get killed by anything but a backstab, a buff is just as hard to dodge as any other attack.

    Comparing the R2 of a heavy attack to the R2 of a light attack is seriously not a logical point. The reason we mentioned the R2's of light weapons, are most of their speeds are comparable to a single R1 from a heavy weapon, while having comparable damage.

    I use strength weapons all the time, but they are weaker then dex weapons, and i'm hoping the patch tipped things back in it's favor. Forum thinks it did the opposite.
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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:46 pm

    When I say Dodge buffs, I mean turtle them till it runs out.

    But yea I won't lie dex weapons have a weight advantage. But str weapons have stun locking. If you are a strength user fighting a dex, you don't need as much poise.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Rynn on Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:54 pm

    I tend to run 0 poise a lot. The problem with dex builds is that it's incredibly easy, even now, to hit 77 poise, and as a result, remove the only real strength a STR weapon had going for it.
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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:11 pm

    Again, apples and oranges. One cannot compare build types by using completely different gear sets unless the gear is exclusive to that build type.

    That logic doesn't apply to the weapons themselves because I'm comparing them to each other, not their attacks directly.

    I could say the same for your dex builds armor so that point is invalid, and the dex build has more extra weight left over after the switch.

    The leo ring wasn't the point. The point was that (without the leo ring or buffs) dex weapons attacks are capable of rivaling the damage of ug weapons attacks, with weapon buffs (which ug builds won't have the free points to use without sacrificing movement speed or defense or hp) or a ring swap (probably at low hp when poise won't matter) they are perfectly capable of surpassing the ug weapons r1 attack strength, and rivaling the 2hr2s (assuming they're even viable, which they usually arn't) while retaining their superior speed.

    You say ug weapon users need less poise, I dissagree. I'd say poise is more important for them because their attacks have such a long wind up that they're fairly easy to interrupt. A spear user can and will hit me twice, breaking 61 poise before my swing hits if we start at the same time. A washing pole user will stun me at roughly the same time my zweih hits, but they won't stagger and so get another hit or 2 in while I try to back off. Same with a halberd. Due to their access to spells a dex build could easily fast roll through the attack and wog me for 300+ damage, and then bs/buff/wakeup attack depending on wether or not the first wog knocks me down or not.

    I see the patch increasing the number of players that ug weapons can stunlock, at least untill people figure out how to streamline, but at mid to high level play where the players already know how to build properly, I see them becoming less viable.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:11 pm

    I've never tried to stack poise, and would never give up rtsr, its the one OP item in the game I refuse to give up. The fact I don't stack poise and get stun locked all the time is probably why it is hard for me to understand.

    I think most str weapons need their weight reduced, all the demon weapons, smoughs, etc.. if they are going to weigh more then twice the large clubs, then they better be doing 750+ AR. And IMO no weapon should require over 40 str to one hand.



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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Forum Pirate on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:38 pm

    The only ug weapons I will exclude from my "less viable than current" blanket are the clubs and the zweih/greatsword.

    http://tinyurl.com/8pqoeco

    This is why, their weight allows only a moderate investment in end above the standard 40, though they still suffer from a lack of magic, and the zweih/greatswords split scaling would make them less than desirable at sl 100 (for the arena), where currently every weapon class is viable at that sl.

    You could argue elemental, but they're weaker than normal now anyways, and the 8 and 10% nerfs respectively *should* (not sure of math so I'm extrapolating) translate into a 50-80 point damage per hit reduction on average, which drops the damage per hit of the zweih to around 400-430. Downright pathetic for such a slow weapon.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Rynn on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:11 pm

    I've considered using the RTSR in my builds sometimes. I think it would be an interesting way of giving gankers a last run for their money.
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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Glutebrah on Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:13 pm

    Rynn wrote:I've considered using the RTSR in my builds sometimes. I think it would be an interesting way of giving gankers a last run for their money.

    Once you use it, you won't be able to stop. I know a lot of people fast menu swap at low life, but I am lazy.


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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by Rynn on Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:14 am

    I use the Fog Ring until i'm at low life actually.
    It's -insanely- easy to lose a ganker in the forest when you're practically invisible. I menu swap to the hornets if a great opportunity arises, but otherwise i stick on my bow and just take 300 dmage pot shots.

    Can't wait for Goughs bow.
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    Re: heard BS damage got tanked.Dark Wood Grain Ring Comments

    Post by ChizFreak on Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:53 pm

    Tolvo wrote:
    ChizFreak wrote:The Abyss Greatsword's 2-handed strong attack have Hyper Armor. But it's so slow and hard to aim at people that it's useless so...

    Slow, hard to aim, useless?
    I know what attack I'll be killing Gankers with when the DLC comes.

    I would like to see that. It's not just slow, and hard to aim, the animation consists of performing a mortal jump and then landing with the sword but like 10 feet from where you were. That's why it's so useless, it's slow, hard to aim, and the place where it hits it's ridiculous. Unless you're on a corridor... and the guy is close to you.... mmmmmm. (runs to Anor Londo)


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