Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

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    Which is the most sensible points cap?

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    Shkar
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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by Shkar on Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:59 pm

    DoughGuy wrote:You've got a point shkar, but as Viral pointed out there is a better chance for the other side to win.

    I don't really see how. There are very few high scorers (1-4) in any war, and most people typically earn somewhere around a quarter or less of what they earn. Amos is, for the most part, the highest scorer. Using the round method, you basically give away whatever round he participates in to the side he fights for (DS). With the win condition being a "best of three" in terms of round wins, you basically start the war with a score of 1 - 0, with a possibility of 2 more points.

    Meaning, the other side has to win BOTH of the other rounds in order to win. If they manage to lose one side to another high-scorer or, heck, to REGULAR scorers, the entire other round's people might as well have not even fought.

    That's not even taking into account the fact that the forum population doesn't seem even remotely balanced in terms of continent (at least, as far as I can tell), leading to imbalanced rounds as it is.

    I'm not saying the idea is terrible, or even all that bad, but as it was presented I do not believe it suits our needs.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by WyrmHero on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:04 pm

    Ok, points cap it is. I'm planning the next war after DLC or if it's before we implement a No DWGR rule so that we get a DLC-feel war (make things interesting).


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:16 pm

    WyrmHero wrote:Ok, points cap it is. I'm planning the next war after DLC or if it's before we implement a No DWGR rule so that we get a DLC-feel war (make things interesting).

    If thats the case.... we'll have to organise how this war is waged... as in who is one whose side


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by Shkar on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:21 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:
    WyrmHero wrote:Ok, points cap it is. I'm planning the next war after DLC or if it's before we implement a No DWGR rule so that we get a DLC-feel war (make things interesting).

    If thats the case.... we'll have to organise how this war is waged... as in who is one whose side

    Aw, I want a free for all...

    Actually, what do you guys think of averaging out the scores of the participants of the wars? You guys have the numbers from the last one, so you would need to check it out, but that should help pretty well in getting an idea of the "average" strength of the covenants soldiers...


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:40 am

    Yeah but small covs like the DS who score big wouldnt be effective.....


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by Shkar on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:42 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Yeah but small covs like the DS who score big wouldnt be effective.....

    Averaged out? They'd probably be better off, actually, since they wouldn't have any low scores weighing them down. That's why I said that the people with the scores would have to see how the averages compare.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:50 am

    Shkar wrote:
    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Yeah but small covs like the DS who score big wouldnt be effective.....

    Averaged out? They'd probably be better off, actually, since they wouldn't have any low scores weighing them down. That's why I said that the people with the scores would have to see how the averages compare.

    Would it be better to divide the scores of a team by the number of players on the opposite team?


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:09 am

    WyrmHero wrote:Ok, points cap it is. I'm planning the next war after DLC or if it's before we implement a No DWGR rule so that we get a DLC-feel war (make things interesting).
    If you are planning on organising event I'll need to talk with you, because I already have one in the works in my head and I'd rather not have them clash.
    Shkar go look at the results for the last war.
    DS 3200 with 15 people.
    NK 1930 with 20 people.
    Averaging isnt going to solve our problem. Even taking out Amos and Servant you have 1600 with 13 people. The scoring system still needs improvement for that to work
    However the biggest reason I am against averaging is because it hurts larger covs. I havea lot of people who contribute afew points each, my average is very small. The DS have a few people who give large amounts each, their average is last. It encourages people to selectively not participate and punishes casual players.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by Hoshizoku on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:25 am

    Wyrm, you are annoying. Sry but you just decide things even though not everyone is ok with that. Instead of finding a compromise you just rushing to the idiotic simplest solution. Why do the ones with free time suffer for the ones who work? Next war the other half will whine about how unfair the war is. If I have to work on a tournament, they don't wait for me till I'm done. Effort wins wars.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:42 am

    DoughGuy wrote:
    WyrmHero wrote:Ok, points cap it is. I'm planning the next war after DLC or if it's before we implement a No DWGR rule so that we get a DLC-feel war (make things interesting).
    If you are planning on organising event I'll need to talk with you, because I already have one in the works in my head and I'd rather not have them clash.
    Shkar go look at the results for the last war.
    DS 3200 with 15 people.
    NK 1930 with 20 people.
    Averaging isnt going to solve our problem. Even taking out Amos and Servant you have 1600 with 13 people. The scoring system still needs improvement for that to work
    However the biggest reason I am against averaging is because it hurts larger covs. I havea lot of people who contribute afew points each, my average is very small. The DS have a few people who give large amounts each, their average is last. It encourages people to selectively not participate and punishes casual players.

    Let's do your event first then.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:45 am

    I had made the suggestion of only forum members vs forum members counted as points, as I thought doing it semi-tournament style would limit points, make each encounter more important and ensure a fair point system....however.....do to lore and some cov's not wanting to get away from their co-op ways (in a pvp covenant war btw big grin , still love ya though dough), my idea was shot down like a Sesna in a dogfight with an F-16.

    Sorry for not giving credit (too lazy to go see now) but someone suggested a points cap for the way we regularly conduct the wars, then extra points are gained for pvp with forum members. I would second that idea, if not, maybe alter it slightly.

    I suggested some time ago, have several different time frames in which members are allowed to participate...someone said having a different schedule would make this unfair, this does the opposite. I work alot, and I work 6pm to 6am regularly, I know about strange schedules. Having several times set up purposely to be more convenient for certain time zones / people, and having them short (2 hours for example) would ensure more forum members on at once and wouldnt allow some of the ridiculous scores.

    Im rambling a little, but I also thought, why cant we have both? Regular war involving co-op etc with its point system etc, then have a tournament style battle? (My tournament style battle idea is really awesome btw.) Maybe certain amount of points from each overall?


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:51 am

    Hoshizoku wrote:Wyrm, you are annoying. Sry but you just decide things even though not everyone is ok with that. Instead of finding a compromise you just rushing to the idiotic simplest solution. Why do the ones with free time suffer for the ones who work? Next war the other half will whine about how unfair the war is. If I have to work on a tournament, they don't wait for me till I'm done. Effort wins wars.

    The ideas the guys have are too complicated. Some are good but there's always a variable. Some might not like the solution but as idiotic as it might be it's the best one we got at the moment. Either way the majority has voted for a cap so I'm moving on with the 400 one if the other leaders accept it.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:53 am

    ROOSTER330 wrote:I had made the suggestion of only forum members vs forum members counted as points, as I thought doing it semi-tournament style would limit points, make each encounter more important and ensure a fair point system....however.....do to lore and some cov's not wanting to get away from their co-op ways (in a pvp covenant war btw big grin , still love ya though dough), my idea was shot down like a Sesna in a dogfight with an F-16.

    Sorry for not giving credit (too lazy to go see now) but someone suggested a points cap for the way we regularly conduct the wars, then extra points are gained for pvp with forum members. I would second that idea, if not, maybe alter it slightly.

    I suggested some time ago, have several different time frames in which members are allowed to participate...someone said having a different schedule would make this unfair, this does the opposite. I work alot, and I work 6pm to 6am regularly, I know about strange schedules. Having several times set up purposely to be more convenient for certain time zones / people, and having them short (2 hours for example) would ensure more forum members on at once and wouldnt allow some of the ridiculous scores.

    Im rambling a little, but I also thought, why cant we have both? Regular war involving co-op etc with its point system etc, then have a tournament style battle? (My tournament style battle idea is really awesome btw.) Maybe certain amount of points from each overall?

    I'm in for a 3 hour FC any time during the war. We had one in the first war and it was pretty cool.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 4:57 am

    Rooster you probably haven't heard but there is a war coming up soon between the DS and LH that will be a tourney style fight. You managed to launch your parachute apparently silly
    The forum members - cap thing was mentioned by Dan. While its a cool idea it still comes down to having a cap or not, not really changing the issue.
    The problem with the duel rounds in the war was it was too hard to get everyone, and some people didnt stop doing normal war stuff.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by WyrmHero on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:05 am

    ^Is that your event Dough?


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:07 am

    No. My event will happen after the DLC is released and use DLC stuff.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:13 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Rooster you probably haven't heard but there is a war coming up soon between the DS and LH that will be a tourney style fight. You managed to launch your parachute apparently silly
    The forum members - cap thing was mentioned by Dan. While its a cool idea it still comes down to having a cap or not, not really changing the issue.
    The problem with the duel rounds in the war was it was too hard to get everyone, and some people didnt stop doing normal war stuff.

    Hurray for parachutes! Glad someone took my idea and ran with it silly

    Just throwing ideas out there with other stuff. Who is running this tournament war? If my idea is going to be stolen they should hear the whole thing and make it real good at least!



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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:15 am

    Its between Bunnywink, wyrm, me and billy. The thread should be going up soon.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:31 am

    Well here was my idea posted in last war thread for tourney style battle.... again just an idea.

    Each cov starts a chat or uses forum chat or whatever works, day before fight. Those that will be at fight are listed, #1 #2 so on .

    So for example, its 10 in one cov and 8 in the other. Everyone fights their corresponding number via RSS. The last two for the side with 8 would have to fight 2v1 fights.

    Every kill is 1 point. Then the amount of participants and the teams skill would determine winner. Also involves some strategy from the cov leaders because, for example, do you want your better fighters at the start of lineup to ensure wins? Or at the end to try and win the 2v1 fights??

    Can have more than one round of this too, diff fighters or just different line ups for strategy purposes.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:40 am

    Also, whoever claims to want to participate and is listed in the final roster for each, forfiets a point if they dont show (same as troops not showing or allies not showing in a real battle). That way there are penalties for not showing once commiting to fight.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:41 am

    Yeah thats basically what its gonna be, except we're making sure the sides are equal so no 2 vs 1s.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:57 am

    DoughGuy wrote:Yeah thats basically what its gonna be, except we're making sure the sides are equal so no 2 vs 1s.

    Crap! Lol. Thought that would be cool, give covs or sides with more members some advantage for their numbers. Never been a battle that was completely even..... just saying


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:59 am

    Well the LH and DS are pretty even in numbers so that wouldnt really happen.


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by ROOSTER330 on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:06 am

    So what will you do if sides are uneven?


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    Re: Setting the new points cap, and a balanced scoring system for future wars.

    Post by DoughGuy on Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:07 am

    We've allocated each side 10 slots to fill. They should be able to do that. If they can't we;ll figure something out then.


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