Backstab damage level...

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    Does BS damage need to be lowered

    [ 17 ]
    50% [50%] 
    [ 11 ]
    32% [32%] 
    [ 6 ]
    18% [18%] 

    Total Votes: 34

    Gorgrim

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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by Gorgrim on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:26 pm

    i think a big overhaul is order concerning massive dmg attacks. In order to balance and make for better matches in general.
    I compare these massive dmg/in escapable attacks to streetfighter ultras. Atleast in SF you have to dish out or take dmg to build meter for ultras/supers which you could get off once or twice. Imagine if both players meters were constantly maxed out, wouldnt that break the game? well Drk Souls pretty much is that, not saying its broken but it needs tweaking for sure.

    BACK STABS : obviously need a change, too much dmg, too easy to pull off. This is the single major problem with fights, it makes it so ppl don't even have to really "fight", just exploit this move for ez wins. The worst is two ppl circling each other scared to move or attack, phishing for a bs. It has to be nerfed.

    PARRY : Yes even parries need to be nerfed. They require skill but there is imbalance in the payoff. IMO the only time you're really rolling the dice with this move is parrying great weapons, if you miss you may be stunlocked. Other weapons light med weight ones are actually easier to parry than grt wpns from my experience, AND you can safely dodge if you miss. Something should be done about this.

    STUNLOCK: I don't believe it should be one swing instant stunlock death. Large weapons should have stunlock, but again, it's a bit overpowered to get caught once and be done for. Needs some changes.

    DWGR : Just place a limit on armour weight for it. 40 +lbs qualifies as heavy set, make the ring unequipable at weight above that.
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    ErrJon6661
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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:35 pm

    Against an equally skilled player backstabs are a bit harder to pull off than just pulling a game exploiting move to score the backstab. Nerfing backstab damage will remove all draw to doing a dexterity build. Then you have two havels swinging bkga's at eachother and to me THAT is not fun at all. Like I've stated earlier to get the ohko backstabs it takes a lot of dedication as far as equipment goes. There are ways to work the system to not have to dedicate so much but THAT is the issue that needs to be addressed, not the actual backstab damage. Another idea i've had as an alternative to this is to lower the crit rate of greatweapons. The grant should not have the same crit rate as a dagger or a short sword.

    If the dwg ring was made so that you could not wear heavy armor while using it half the problem would be gone. A major issue is tanks that can out move builds that aren't tanks. Nerfing the ring a bit would remove the flipping mask tanks that ohko a lot of people.

    Ripostes. Don't nerf these. Someone pulls a riposte on me the match is over and my hat's off to them.

    I have nothing to say about stunlock.


    I think what a lot of people are doing, and I've said this in another thread I believe but everyone seems to address the symptom of the real problem instead of the problem itself. The issue is not that backstab damage is entirely too high its that heavy builds have the ability to out move lighter builds and go for backstabs AND use the massive weapons.


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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by eneq on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:37 pm

    Agree on all the points but I think you oversimplify the DWGR, you can get a 70+ Poise build with less then 40 (without ring) and frankly its the poise stacking that makes the tank builds not the rest of the stats.

    I think you should tie the DWGR to the actual Poise of your character, ie. anything above 40 poise makes it fizzle or something. The risk with all these modifications is that certain playstyles gets impossible to use.
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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:41 pm

    Just make it so you get the special roll when you're under 25% not 50%. How much poise can you get under 25% burden (assuming 40 end ~70 units of weight limiting you to under 20ish units)


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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by eneq on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:44 pm

    ErrJon6661 wrote:...I think what a lot of people are doing, and I've said this in another thread I believe but everyone seems to address the symptom of the real problem instead of the problem itself. The issue is not that backstab damage is entirely too high its that heavy builds have the ability to out move lighter builds and go for backstabs AND use the massive weapons.

    Dont agree with you on this I am afraid, the game is 95% about mobility and if you force heavy armor players to become stagnant figures with a penalised attack (heavy weapons) then there is no place for them anymore. Dex builds would just jump around like crazy and go BS ape on these players.

    I am a heavy armor player atm but I sometimes go bareskinned and it doesnt affect my success rate that much. What people fail to realise is that the armor isnt that important, if I go against a dex build with buffed weapons he does significant damage to me due to my lack of resistances for instance.

    Nerfing the DWGR will IMO ONLY mean that the same people will find builds that stack poise and still be able to fast roll. Ie. removing chest piece for some cloth instead etc. it will NOT (IMO) fix the issues people are having with players tanking damage and getting stunlocks/bs in.

    Gorgrim

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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by Gorgrim on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:48 pm

    good points guys, i like the point about dwgr tied to poise, that may work well. And lowering crit on grt wpns is a good idea too.

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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by User on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:49 pm

    ... I don't care about Back Stabs, and if they tweak it or not is fine with me, as those who Glitch and warp backstab are worst than those who actually try to be skilled at such things. Backstabbing does not to be tweaked, as much as THAT issue.

    However... If I say a being with that of the armor of a Fatass, I do not expect to see him rolling backwards like a clown from Renascence Fair, and then backstabbing me without remorse, or they keep flipping and I can not do a damn thing, because their flips are above all almost immune to all damage, it is hard to not throw your controller at something that is so... unreasonable. I would prefer for those of dexterity class to actually be the ones to flip, and that not the certain amount of weight the carrier weighs in total, but the weight of the armor itself, would be measured by such a ring, because that is unreasonable and frustrating to see a Golden Fat Boy rolling around sometimes even better than I am. Its just wrong. I broke a controller's R! button and my left analog stick after I threw it on the couch... that seems to be the problem. The backstabs I do not care about, as much as the abuse of other factors that spin around it. The Flipping Fat Boys is one of them.
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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by eneq on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:02 pm

    ErrJon6661 wrote:Just make it so you get the special roll when you're under 25% not 50%. How much poise can you get under 25% burden (assuming 40 end ~70 units of weight limiting you to under 20ish units)

    As an example: Pump endurance to 50, use DWGR, mask of the father and Havels ring the 25% cap will be 38.8

    Legs: Havels leggings (11.5, 27)
    Arms: Havels arms (11.5, 28)
    Head: Mask of the father (1.2)
    Chest: Solaire Iron Chest (9/22.4)

    That brings Poise to 77.4 and weight to 33.2 leaving 5 pounds to a weapon and shield which works perfect with Bandits Knife/Rapier and a Grass Crest shield.

    And if we pump up endurance more then well we have some more room, instead of having elemental builds that pump up Vit to 80+ well have Endurance builds with 70+ endurance which will make 25% still be 50ish and allow for full giant set.
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    ErrJon6661
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    Re: Backstab damage level...

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:05 pm

    Thats a great point. Its a bit dumb that I assume everyone caps end at 40. I guess the poise limitation would be the best option.


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