What's the point after NG+?

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    leopard2lx
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    What's the point after NG+?

    Post by leopard2lx on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:14 pm

    I am currently and NG++ SL 140 and starting to wonder what the point is anymore. I mean, I have pretty much all the items with upgrades and there is nothing I can get that can change my character much. Leveling up now makes almost no difference.
    Also, seeing how some foes can 1-shot me even with all the upgrades and such is kinda lame.

    What is everyone's motivation for continuing to play?
    I'm not a PvP person.
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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by Joichiro on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:17 pm

    what about challenging runs?
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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by StockpileThomas on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:33 pm

    If you're not into PVP... I guess you're done? hehe. The only reason I've played this game past the first month is PVP. I'm not even that great at it; I just like building characters and upgrading new weapons to try out. I just completed a new build last week and it was a grind; I've played this game through too many times.

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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:45 pm

    leopard2lx wrote:I am currently and NG++ SL 140 and starting to wonder what the point is anymore. I mean, I have pretty much all the items with upgrades and there is nothing I can get that can change my character much.
    What??? I've played through countless +'s on my main character, and I'm still finding interesting new things to try. I guess if the game doesn't interest you that much maybe hang it up, but at SL 140 there's no way you've tried everything, so maybe look around and experiment. Maybe do a cosplaythrough as Bruce Lee 2-handing Claws or something.

    If you haven't tried co-op, maybe give that a try. It's addicting.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by Mr. Tart on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:56 pm

    Everyone's got different kinds of things keeping them playing.
    I myself like to make roleplaying builds. I've got a samurai build, a silver knight build and my most recent one, a Artorias build, not really unique, but, meh. You just have to find your own thing really, and if there's nothing that keeps you going about this game, then you're done.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by Shindori on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:15 pm

    To be able to play without getting one shot? Haha might sound silly but I like it. Trains you in dodging and parrying, plus PVP man. It's always fun.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by lordgodofhell on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:10 am

    Well, considering you're only ng++, you have 5 more new games to go before you reach max difficulty. At ng7 sl 140s, you will feel even weaker which is the point! Also, the spell stacks man! Friggin spell stacks!

    Currently, I am aiming for a sl50-60 ng7 run toon. My phantoms will have a rough time with it and that is the point. To get guys who probs never got past ng+ to see how ng7 enemies are ng+ enemies with power within activated in a sense, and unobtainable HP!!

    PVP is where it's at as well. Even non arranged pvp such as dried finger use while boss questing. This is another reason to do a challenge run at lower soul level so you get invaded everywhere. Imagine navigating ng7 crystal mobs + darkwraith on your a s s while you try to quest seath level 50! It is intense and fun. My 50 is only ng+++ right now as I have not put much time into it ( have ten toons big grin).

    Just some ideas for you...




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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by vageta31 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:17 am

    Unless you're trying to get more spell casts for pvp, then honestly there isn't much. If you're getting more spell casts for PVE then you're making NG+ runs even easier. You can achieve the same sense of challenge by limiting yourself in a standard NG. Playing through NG with a +5 standard upgrade maximum is similar to playing through NG+ whatever with a strong character. If you can do 500 damage a swing to a boss in NG+7 that has 20,000hp, then you can simply limit yourself to doing 125 damage to the same boss in NG that has 5000hp and it's no different. If you keep your vitality at base, don't upgrade your armor and even get cursed/calamity ring/dusk crown ring then you can make yourself get one shotted as well.

    The problem with all NG+ runs is that you begin each one full powered so the first half of the game is always easy. NG runs on the other hand stay relatively difficult due to starting fresh. Now if you run through NG+7 with severe limits it will be more difficult, but trying to do NG+ with a +5 weapon is not something most will ever have the patience to overcome. It's all about numbers since the enemy AI and such never changes.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:05 pm

    vageta31 wrote: You can achieve the same sense of challenge by limiting yourself in a standard NG.
    I know you have all the numbers to justify this, and I know they add up just fine, but it is so very, very, very far from true. I urge you to bring one of your low lvl (like 1-9) characters to NG+7, V. You will see what I mean.

    One example of what makes it different is blocking. I can wander through O & S or wherever in NG without fear with 1 hp because I know I can block if I need to, I can even block Capra's massive first attack if I slip up and have the need to. By NG+...4 or 5, I think, you can't block most heavy attacks (unless you somehow have big stamina). You can say, "I never block anyway," but it changes things when you know you can't.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by e82 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:45 pm

    leopard2lx wrote:I am currently and NG++ SL 140 and starting to wonder what the point is anymore. I mean, I have pretty much all the items with upgrades and there is nothing I can get that can change my character much. Leveling up now makes almost no difference.
    Also, seeing how some foes can 1-shot me even with all the upgrades and such is kinda lame.

    What is everyone's motivation for continuing to play?
    I'm not a PvP person.

    For the fun of it / challenge of it. I seem to have a tendency to roll a new build instead of doing the NG+ cycle.

    I find the game play mechanics of this game so enjoyable that I enjoy simply hunting/fighting in this world, re-visiting the boss fights and re-doing them because they are fun/challenging - not because I have some carrot-on-a-stick of better loot/items luring me to do so. When a game turns into an incremental-item-grind (like Diablo/etc) -- thats when my interest falls off.

    Once your build is fully fleshed out with upgraded items / weapons / etc (when you can do before you start your first NG+ if you are so inclined) - it's then trying to perfect your strategy, as you do get to the point of many things can 1-shot you (yes, you can re-create the same challenge by placing limitations on your self on a new character).

    Or, make new builds - on the PC, I have 4 characters - most of them almost done a first play-through - (pretty much just the final boss + some optional content to wrap up), each of them plays very differently, required a slightly different approach to fights. dex/pyro, int/sorcery, str/faith, str/endurance --- running through the game with each one of them has been very enjoyable, even after 100+ hours of playing on the PC.

    Then there are novelty builds, RP builds, challenge runs, taking a build I liked and just re-playing the game with them but with maxed out items/etc just because I enjoy it. These are the reasons why I keep playing.

    There is something satisfying knowing that my very first time playing - it took me nearly 90+ hours to beat the game once, and now I can run through and do it in a fraction of that time. I can def see the appeal in people doing 'speed runs' and trying to best their old times.

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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:54 pm

    @leopard: You should try and do some PvP. That is where the enjoyment is really at; your strategy vs theirs, your build vs theirs.

    Then you'll see a lot of layers to the game that you will never see in PvE; how a bit more reach matters, how swing speed and poise and all of that works together. It's a balancing act, and you're trying to beat their strategy with yours.

    Honestly, worth spending a bunch of time to do PvP.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by vageta31 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:49 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    vageta31 wrote: You can achieve the same sense of challenge by limiting yourself in a standard NG.
    I know you have all the numbers to justify this, and I know they add up just fine, but it is so very, very, very far from true. I urge you to bring one of your low lvl (like 1-9) characters to NG+7, V. You will see what I mean.

    One example of what makes it different is blocking. I can wander through O & S or wherever in NG without fear with 1 hp because I know I can block if I need to, I can even block Capra's massive first attack if I slip up and have the need to. By NG+...4 or 5, I think, you can't block most heavy attacks (unless you somehow have big stamina). You can say, "I never block anyway," but it changes things when you know you can't.


    I have done it. Once. And it almost burned me out as running through the game 7x with the same character was just too redundant for my taste. For those that enjoy that sort of thing then yes, by all means go for it. I've seen a lot of people like me however who cringe at the thought of doing the same thing 7x over only for a difficulty increase. I'm just trying to explain to people that you can create a similar difficulty without having to punish yourself with redundant playthroughs.


    I will agree about the stamina issue, but like you said I rarely block anything. Remember that sl 5 no shield naked run? That was back in February, I've long since lost my reliance on shields. Then again as you've realized, in the higher NG+ no lower level character can block anyways so what's the point? If you can't block then you dodge which is how most veterans play the game anyways. Once you're in one shot mode, then whether it's in ng+3 or ng+7 it shouldn't effect you mentally just knowing "I can't block".


    I apologize if I'm coming off combative, that's not my intent. I'm only trying to save people the trouble of the NG+ runs when it's not required. I'd personally rather play the game 7x with a different build or ruleset, than play the same exact character 7 times in a row. Perhaps I'm the one in the minority, but I doubt it. Just make the NG run challenging from the start and you can get most of what you're looking for without having to go through the pain.


    You still never addressed my assertion that all NG+ runs are easier in the first half compared to a NG run. Just run to the bosses at full power and kill them. Even in NG+ and beyond you can still one shot most enemies and destroy bosses in a few when you have a full power character. Compared to taking multiple hits with a weak weapon in NG.


    If you want a challenge that will make NG+7 seem easy, then here's what you can do. It's not some ridiculous limitation either that takes the fun out of the game. Let's call it the "NG-" run.


    Start a fresh game with any class. Play through the game using this ruleset.


    -no leveling
    -no bottomless box
    -no master key
    -absolutely no looting/buying any spell
    -keep your original starting armor unupgraded


    Other than that, you can blast through the game using whatever you want. Giant's, MoM, Rofap, lightning weapons, etc... After you kill Gwyn, don't finish the game yet. Drop off everything on your character except your starting armor set. And I mean everything. Weapons, items, humanity, titanite shards, etc.. This is why you're not allowed to buy or loot spells as you can't drop them. Now link the bonfire or walk out the doorway.


    You've officially started NG+ as a NG character. Now run through the game with any ruleset you want and understand why NG+~ during the first half of the game is so simple and un-challenging. Once you get towards the second half of the game it will get easier like a normal NG+, but getting there is the difficult part. For full effect I'd suggest dying in the Asylum and losing your bloodstain as you'll start with a ton of souls allowing you to level up too much and take away some difficulty. By starting truly fresh, it will not be simple and NG+7 will seem like child's play. If you want to go all out then I'd suggest remaining at your base class level and only upgrading gear.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:58 pm

    vageta31 wrote:If you want a challenge that will make NG+7 seem easy, then here's what you can do. It's not some ridiculous limitation either that takes the fun out of the game. Let's call it the "NG-" run.


    Start a fresh game with any class. Play through the game using this ruleset.


    -no leveling
    -no bottomless box
    -no master key
    -absolutely no looting/buying any spell
    -keep your original starting armor unupgraded


    Other than that, you can blast through the game using whatever you want. Giant's, MoM, Rofap, lightning weapons, etc... After you kill Gwyn, don't finish the game yet. Drop off everything on your character except your starting armor set. And I mean everything. Weapons, items, humanity, titanite shards, etc.. This is why you're not allowed to buy or loot spells as you can't drop them. Now link the bonfire or walk out the doorway.


    You've officially started NG+ as a NG character.
    I'm not 100% sure I understand the challenge. The armor part's no problem (SL 6 at infinity may as well be perma-naked), the key only matters if you run through areas, which I don't, spells don't matter at NG+... not having a box would be a little inconvenient, I guess. So the only real challenge is that I start NG with my class's base weapon and upgrade normally from there, right? I have one character slot I could delete so I think I'll try this. Seems kind of easy, but if you think it's tougher than NG+++++++ at sl 6 I'll give it a try.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by vageta31 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:55 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    vageta31 wrote:If you want a challenge that will make NG+7 seem easy, then here's what you can do. It's not some ridiculous limitation either that takes the fun out of the game. Let's call it the "NG-" run.


    Start a fresh game with any class. Play through the game using this ruleset.


    -no leveling
    -no bottomless box
    -no master key
    -absolutely no looting/buying any spell
    -keep your original starting armor unupgraded


    Other than that, you can blast through the game using whatever you want. Giant's, MoM, Rofap, lightning weapons, etc... After you kill Gwyn, don't finish the game yet. Drop off everything on your character except your starting armor set. And I mean everything. Weapons, items, humanity, titanite shards, etc.. This is why you're not allowed to buy or loot spells as you can't drop them. Now link the bonfire or walk out the doorway.


    You've officially started NG+ as a NG character.
    I'm not 100% sure I understand the challenge. The armor part's no problem (SL 6 at infinity may as well be perma-naked), the key only matters if you run through areas, which I don't, spells don't matter at NG+... not having a box would be a little inconvenient, I guess. So the only real challenge is that I start NG with my class's base weapon and upgrade normally from there, right? I have one character slot I could delete so I think I'll try this. Seems kind of easy, but if you think it's tougher than NG+++++++ at sl 6 I'll give it a try.

    The no bottomless box clause was only to ensure you don't accidentally start NG+ with items in it. You do understand the challenge though, it's essentially just starting out NG+ with what you would have started out NG with. It sounds fairly easy, but you'll notice right away that you're in for a challenge when the dreglings in the Asylum take 4 parry/ripostes to finish off and it only gets worse from there.

    It's not impossible, but you'll find it much more difficult that your standard NG+ runs since we take the early game for granted. You can one shot the asylum demon in NG+ if you have the right gear for it, but now that's not even remotely possible nor is any boss for that matter. Fighting the gargoyles with a +5 weapon in NG is pretty cake, trying to do the same in NG+ with all of their hp/damage upgrades is a whole new world.

    Remember that NG to NG+ is the biggest step in difficulty. NG+ to NG+7 only changes incrementally. Give it a shot, it might breath some new life into the game and would be something very worthy of respect.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:11 pm

    My favorite challenge FAIL ever was similar.

    I started NG+god-know-what with my main guy and decided to see how far I could go with my starting weapon, a Scimitar +0. I had no other restrictions, only the weapon one. The Hollow Soldiers took 11 2-hand R1's to kill, if I remember right; I made a thread about it way back when. It was brutal, but it's the funnest (and longest) fight I ever had vs. the Taurus Demon. I gave up after not too long though. There was no way without upgrading.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:01 pm

    vageta31 wrote:You still never addressed my assertion that all NG+ runs are easier in the first half compared to a NG run. Just run to the bosses at full power and kill them. Even in NG+ and beyond you can still one shot most enemies and destroy bosses in a few when you have a full power character. Compared to taking multiple hits with a weak weapon in NG.
    I'd agree that early bosses and mobs are easier through about NG+4 or so, but add that while they're easier to kill, they're also much more dangerous, as in it's much easier for them to kill you. In NG you can take so much damage. It didn't feel like that when I was new, but now it sure does. Torch hollow spazzes out on me in NG it's no big, torch hollow spazzes out on me in NG+7 I'm probably dead. The Hollow Soldiers outside the Parish hit me for over 1,000 hp with their strong attack, which means 2-shot, in NG it'd take them twice that.

    (Apologies if this post doesn't make sense, but I'm just leaving work for the day and kind of running.)


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by Hellion7776 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:20 am

    Ok, I officially suck at this game...I'm reading this thinking I am pretty decent at playing, only to realize that I am at NG+ Gwyn at 140 and having a ridiculously hard time.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by callipygias on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:40 pm

    Hellion7776 wrote:Ok, I officially suck at this game...I'm reading this thinking I am pretty decent at playing, only to realize that I am at NG+ Gwyn at 140 and having a ridiculously hard time.
    I remember it well. Bear in mind many of us have played the game WAAAY over a thousand hours.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:54 pm

    The best player is the one having the most fun.

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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by StockpileThomas on Fri Sep 21, 2012 7:58 pm

    BIG TIME MASTER wrote:The best player is the one having the most fun.

    Best thing I've read all day.
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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:15 pm

    Glad to hear!

    This is from a famous rock climbing guy who said, "The best climber is the one having the most fun" but it can apply to just about any hobby.

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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by Garl_Vinland on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:26 pm

    Wise words. So few people embrace that concept.
    Not here, of course, we all know how to have a good time!


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by BIG TIME MASTER on Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:37 pm

    I do beleive this is the most mature and most intelligent group of gamers available taken as a whole. In general I enjoy reading peoples comments and ideas on this forum. I've checked out other forums and, well lets just say they dont really measure up in class of posters.

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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by VinheimProfessor on Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:08 am

    To get more and more power, and become a Lord yourself. Really, the only point is being able to tear apart bosses that used to give you trouble before twisted . I love destroying bosses in a few hits.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

    Post by lextune on Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:19 am

    If you aren't into PvP (WHAT?!) then a challenge run is a great way to keep the game fresh.

    Being the freakish Dark Souls addict that I am I have done several of them. The most recent was probably the most fun for me.

    I BB glitched the Dragon torso stone, and played through the whole game with just the roar and claws. I did allow myself the power within spell, buth other than that I was up close and personal killing everything in the game with my bare claws.

    I even played much of the game human, (not always the best idea for a challenge run), and had some great fun with invaders. pulled off some incredible parries a few times, (if I do say so myself).

    I also did the whole playthrough with no HUD, which was great, and easy, since I only had the stone and my flask, (although I do admit to flasking when I meant to roar more than a few times).

    Other common challenge runs:
    No leveling
    No shield
    Naked
    Combinations thereof
    ....and so many more.


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    Re: What's the point after NG+?

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      Current date/time is Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:25 am