PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by ErrJon6661 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:29 pm

    If anyone wants to join a user cov with alternative invasion mechanics check out the Assassins hahaha. We could use more members.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    DarkW17 wrote:I was in Anor londo on the weekend and I got 35 Indicts in a few hours...so what I like to firestorm people and kick them off ledges...I can't help it really its so much fun cheers
    Doubtless you make full use of the 'point down' and 'well, what is it' gesture, too. I don't quite understand this mindset, but I think Fromsoft does.

    I don't necessarily think Fromsoft is misanthropic, but there is a reason rats drop humanity. I think one of their goals with the Souls games is to allow people to realize their personality and excel, whether it's with a proper bow after helping someone in co-op, or a demeaning gesture after Firestorming a noob from behind the titanite Demon's skirts in Anor Londo. The game gives you an opportunity to discover what type of person you are, in a sense. It's interesting to see who falls where.

    I read this as: "The game gives you an opportunity to discover what type of person you are, and based on what you sometimes do while invading, you're a douchebag, according to me."


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by callipygias on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:42 pm

    Not sure which 'me' you mean, and I'm not sure what you consider a douchebag.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:44 pm

    lol its a role playing game which most of the times people wanna be the bad guy.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:44 pm

    I've actually had the reverse experience; I tried duelling and the limited space, jumping around, metagame built around it made me dislike it from the first. Why should you get a buff right away? Why should we fight in an area that appeals to pyromancy? Felt like such a limited mindset that after a handful of fights I never wanted to go back.

    And there's no reason to do the well what is it gesture, or the hand on the head, or any other teasing/tbagging gesture. It's a straight up insult, no different than a nasty message in my opinion. In my experience, gankers gank because they're not good 1 on 1. Any time I kill the gankers phantoms, the 1 on 1 is extremely easy. Because they suck, they gank. Because they gank, they don't improve. I don't tease them for not being good. That being said I'll use any trick to win. A ganker messaged me a loser for spamming WoG on him after I BS'd him. Too bad.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:50 pm

    befowler - interesting thought.

    Here's another point. In most places where invasions are frequent, so are phantom summon signs. Things balance each other out. If I'm in Anor Londo and I summon one or 2 phantoms, the level is toast. It is really really easy. I mean, there are often so many summon signs that I can pick and chose who I summon based on their gear. But, invasions counter balance it out.

    And, just because DW uses the environment and pyro to his advantage doesn't make him a ganker, or a jerk. It makes him smart. As an invader, we are outnumbered and outgunned. We are at a huge disadvantage. We have to find anything we can to help us out. That means being able to manipulate the hosts and their 2 phantoms into places where they don't have the advantage wide open spaces, or narrow paths (as long as they don't CSS or Lightning you to death), opening doors with enemies, getting into position to use AoE spells. NOT allowing yourself to get BSed (that is a hard, but fun one).

    Invaders are far more likely to die than the hosts are during an average invasion (especially in Anor). Bottom line.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:53 pm

    callipygias wrote:
    DarkW17 wrote:I was in Anor londo on the weekend and I got 35 Indicts in a few hours...so what I like to firestorm people and kick them off ledges...I can't help it really its so much fun cheers
    Doubtless you make full use of the 'point down' and 'well, what is it' gesture, too. I don't quite understand this mindset, but I think Fromsoft does.

    I don't necessarily think Fromsoft is misanthropic, but there is a reason rats drop humanity. I think one of their goals with the Souls games is to allow people to realize their personality and excel, whether it's with a proper bow after helping someone in co-op, or a demeaning gesture after Firestorming a noob from behind the titanite Demon's skirts in Anor Londo. The game gives you an opportunity to discover what type of person you are, in a sense. It's interesting to see who falls where.

    No actually I only wave and the people that are running away are often double my lvl and higher....and I am not a chump invader I firestorm them from a foot away and they die trying to bs me...I kick people of ledges that run and heal ect!

    Thanks for the ignorant response tho....I guess that shows your what type of person you are!!!!


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:55 pm

    The "me" in that context is actually you (cal), since I was speaking from your perspective. And I wasnt calling anyone a douchebag. I was pointing out that it seemed to me you'd made the assertion that Dark as a person is a douchebag based on what he sometimes does while invading in a video game, which frankly annoyed me.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm

    I invade a lot, and I have far more success as an invader than a defender, because I don't have to worry about Mobs, I can buff, I can retreat, and I can ambush. The longer I wait, the more chance a second invader comes along. I win far more often as an invader. If it's 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 on open ground... I don't normally win. But I can usually retreat to an area where mobs can help me, or I can ambush with a nasty spell.

    Gearing for PvP and being able to size up your opponent and choose gear appropriate helps quite a bit.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:02 pm

    Easy guys. This is a touchy subject. I felt the same way (what I considered cheap - based on rules of engagement during duels). Until I started invading and realized what odds are stacked against me.

    Ethics during duels don't translate to ethics during invasions. It is not that we are lowering our standards for invasions. Invasions are not duels. Different rules. Different expectations.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by callipygias on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:08 pm

    reim0027 wrote:As an invader, we are outnumbered and outgunned. We are at a huge disadvantage.
    Well yes, if you're standing in an otherwise empty room with 1 of you and 3 them, you are outnumbered, otherwise it's 1, 2, or 3 of them vs. you and an entire level of enemies ON YOUR SIDE.

    Assuming we're still talking about invading questers they will be geared for PvE, hoping to kill all manner of different things, you will be geared to kill them and them only. You have nothing to lose, they have humanity, souls, and an entire level of progress at stake. You can use your spells indiscriminately, while they have to finish the level and then face the boss. You know every inch of the territory (since you do it over and over and over and over), while they may not. And most importantly, you PvP endlessly, while the average quester doesn't.

    The one thing that balances this out is that the host can use Estus. The more I think about it the more amazed I am at the way Fromsoft set it all up. Really impressive.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by IV_Mark_VI on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:08 pm

    Sure; I just think it's false to say invaders have the deck stacked against them. Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.

    You know you're invading. You deck yourself out for an invasion, and build for it. The host/helper phantoms don't. You have the option to retreat and heal normally; they have a harder time of it. You engage when it's right for you, they can't. You can equip limited spells that do a lot of damage (SLB, DMB) and if they're going to beat O&S, they normally don't have such things.

    I've done lots of invading as both a DM invader and a DW and the only place its really tough is Anor Londo, where it's normally 3 on 1, and forest, where gankers abound. Best move in the forest I find is to just run and jump the gap; either none or 1 will follow, and then you have a better chance of engaging on your terms. The majority of the time, beating people on xbox is easy.

    In dark anor londo, its even easier, as you can retreat to the archers if need be. If it's gankers, their goal is to rack up souls and you can prevent that a number of ways.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:11 pm

    Sorry Reim I just felt it a little rude to take a personal jab at me for sharing my thoughts and experiences in a thread meant for that purpose....I am however done posting tho I didn't make my OP to start a fight....and anyone that knows me or has watched any of my youtube invader videos knows I am a rutheless invader its common knowledge...I take no shame in this...but a chump mob hiding taunting invader I am not Bow


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:14 pm

    They call reim hop, the king of the hip-hop... (technique)
    ruining gankers plots and dodging their shots.


    Cali - I have seen you in a few of DSME's vids... I can see why you would be a bit bitter when what you are doing is to help the host through the level and then you die... It seems that Phantoms are altruisic and us invaders take the Hobbes approach 'each man earns his souls(not IRL) via his own hard work' We help the hosts learn to defeat the boss 1v1, or in the O+S case 1v2. It also gives the hosts ample opportunity to learn how to pvp, eg; if I am against a blatantly new host (lets say Drake Sword) I will drop a Longsword +10 for them. They will equip it and we can duel, instead of punishing their flasks with BS's I just Lloyds them, it will aid em' in the future.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by Knight Alundil on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:26 pm

    Just another thought if DkS is burning you out. Seem's obvious I know but play another game for a week or so then come back and make a new char. Usually sucks me back in big grin

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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by RANT on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:28 pm

    what about coop? getting summoned to help someone also means protecting the host which is the most important thing to do specially against invaders, i dont get why some people will not fight invaders and will let the host die. but anyway, do you do anything to protect the host from invaders? like chain bs'ing if all hes doing is bs'ing? i usually wave the host away specially if he's just a quester cause i know he'll probably get destroyed and take on the invader by myself but i cant help if the host wants to fight him to so if it turns into a 2v1 i dont care and will kill the invader with the host since im there to help him.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by callipygias on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:29 pm

    IV_Mark_VI wrote: I've done lots of invading as both a DM invader and a DW and the only place its really tough is Anor Londo, where it's normally 3 on 1
    I've never invaded, but I do a lot of co-op there, and it seems like it would be far and away the toughest place to invade because there are almost always 3 of us, and civility is mostly out the window since we all remember how hard O & S once were, so we assume the host can't afford to lose his humanity.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by RedderAI on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:30 pm

    Very recently I've been working on a SL 99 pure dex character who can only use very light low damage weapons. I only have a scimitar, short bow, and a dagger. My armor is the black leather armor, black leather boots, balder gauntlets and a gargoyle helm. It give me exactly 53 poise if I use the wolf ring. So far when I get invaded or I invade someone else I don't stand a chance against most character builds head-on. so I've been using mind games and a lot of stealth tactics such as shooting arrows in a far off place to generate weapon sound to attract people to certain locations. I use ledges for plungin attacks ( works amazingly btw), and the ring of fog and hornets have been helping.

    I really am not able to survive with this character during duels or straight up fighting. Stealth is my go to Tactic for this character. It's been fun though but people hate it and find it unfair. I get a lot of hate mail and **** for my use of said tactic. Bottom line is I don't want to die, so I can only do one thing, kill you. Doesn't mattr how, if I need to survive for my 3 million souls and 50 humanity I'm going to *** do it.

    Sorry I recently lost all of that due to an invader takin my flasking as a bs trigger.

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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by Marino. on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:37 pm

    I never got to fight in any Fight Clubs since their idiotic rules already turned me of. I just sticked with regular Kiln/PW and even Dark Anor Londo PVP and had lots of fun with my bs's .

    The one thing i did in my last few month's on the PS3 were Low level invasions in Depths ,Burg and co.

    You can teach new Players lessons in PVP ,gift them some Humanities etc. Almost always they appreciated it and send me friendly messages and even friend requests .
    Its a Win-Win situation
    You have your fun toying with them while they learn something .

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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by callipygias on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:38 pm

    TehInfamousAmos wrote:if I am against a blatantly new host (lets say Drake Sword) I will drop a Longsword +10 for them. They will equip it and we can duel, instead of punishing their flasks with BS's I just Lloyds them, it will aid em' in the future.
    That's great. Guys like you give invaders a good name.

    I like your Lloyd's theory of saving the host's flasks, but the only problem is that for it to work you have to end up losing. I haven't seen you fight, but I'm guessing that doesn't happen too often.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:46 pm

    I sometimes BSC out Calli silly


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:53 pm

    There are so many variables, strategies, and tactics (for both sides). That is what makes it fun.

    And regarding the host not being prepared for pvp, they know they could be invaded. The onus is on them to have some preparation for this invasion. After all, they prepare for PvE. It is as simple as buying a rapier and incorporating that into your build.

    Regarding invasions as 1 vs 1, I do tone it down and play a bit nicer, but match my tone with their. 2 vs 1 or 3 vs 1, all gloves come off.

    Lastly about being at a disadvantage, I agree with you in part. Early level invading is too easy. I've stopped doing it. I usually invade at Sen's and higher (usually Anor or DA). There the odds are more stacked against me and it is a lot more fun.


    Last edited by reim0027 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by StockpileThomas on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:56 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:
    Ghadis_God wrote:For me, the way I "want" to fight is honorably, so "doing whatever the hell I want" means "having a fair fight". It's not like I would be a jerk if I could, I genuinely agree with most of the rules that constitute "dueling".

    +1 when i first started my DS pvp experience i used to be that guy that that had on Giants/MoM/BKGA and as soon as my life was low it was pivot BS time. i am not proud of that, and thus i refuse to ever play anything remotely like that again.... unless its 3v1 and healing like crazy

    I was the same. I didn't BS too much, but I definitely made a cheap faith build to spam TWOG, etc. That got old, quickly. I shudder to think of all the slabs I wasted on lightning weapons.

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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by TehInfamousAmos on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:56 pm

    Heh, WAR! HUH! YEAHHH! What is it good for? absolutely nothin!

    Well actually it is good for me getting my glass cannon out and annihilating everything in sight.


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    Re: PvP burning you out? Try this (worked for me)

    Post by reim0027 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:57 pm

    Edited my post above. Apparently a couple people decided to post while I was editing.


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