What is YOUR Bane?

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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:02 am

    Just by picking up a demons spear, on any build I have with 10 dex, my win rate goes up.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:04 am

    Same here. Considerably. Way back when I posted my "Dealing With Spears" thread like three months ago, maybe even longer, I spent about two hours in the Kiln using the SKS to see what other people did to counter it. I lost ONE TIME. In two hours.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:08 am

    Spears have almost no dead angle capabilities (except for partizan, which looks like it can be a damn good weapon)

    I've never had problems fighting against spear users. They tend to be overly defensive.

    Just use a bleed causing weapon or use toxin resin and poison em. See how their tactics change.
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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:13 am

    Good luck bleeding out any decent player through their shield.

    And turtlers aren't the spear users I think most of us are referring to. I'm talking about the high poise/DWGR/spear players. They don't stand there and jab from time to time with a greatshield up. They control the fight while you cycle through your list of counters struggling to make ANYTHING work.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Seignar on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:15 am

    Just use a bleed causing weapon or use toxin resin and poison em. See how their tactics change.
    That would work...if spears users didn't ninja flip every time you get close to them!
    Really, any smart spear user is practically invincible. They won't attack if you're close to avoid being parried, they'll roll off the second you can close the distance. And they'll carry elemental or buffs so they chip damage you to death!

    Alll of my best builds had 1 thing in common: Spears. Whether they turtle or 2H it, the range is defense enough to win...


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:16 am

    DamageCK wrote:Good luck bleeding out any decent player through their shield.

    And turtlers aren't the spear users I think most of us are referring to. I'm talking about the high poise/DWGR/spear players. They don't stand there and jab from time to time with a greatshield up. They control the fight while you cycle through your list of counters struggling to make ANYTHING work.

    Spears have such a narrow angle to hit you.

    I guess I never had a lot of problems because my main build used the WP and Avelyn, so I would always have the same or more range than a spear user.

    And if the DWGR nerf their shouldnt be as many high poise flippers going about.
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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:21 am

    A good deal of the time (between 1/4 and 1/3), even in the burg I can win a duel using the sks without taking damage of any kind. (the sks r2 can deadangle)

    I can and have poked an entire 3 man gank squad through all 20 eusteus and killed them without taking damage using the demons spear.

    The good players stay at the very edge of the spears range (just far enough away that you cant parry or roll bs) and roll poke, never getting close enough for you to hit, and often if you're hyper agressive to trigger poision or bleed they'll parry or bs you. If you turtle they can simply pull out an elemental spear and chip you to death from outside your range.

    Yeah, if you're primary weapon is the washing pole then you won't have as much trouble with spears. Or anything else. for most of the same reasons.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Seignar on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:26 am

    Oh really? 39 Points to spare...
    Don't know about the Washing Pole, Spears do have the benefit of being able to poke, so they still have an advantage.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by goober0331 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:29 am

    WP can poke with 1h R2 and the Avelyn gave me range for when a spear user made a mistake and I could hit em. The build I used relied on speed, range, and then being unpredictable.

    I never tried spears but they seem to fit what my playstyle is so I might have to try em out.
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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Forum Pirate on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:33 am

    http://tinyurl.com/8k9jevw this is just as bad, especially as dwgr use will drop off.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:42 am

    I'm getting a lot better at using a spear in the offhand, now with a Straight Sword or katana in my right hand. It keeps things generally more interesting than using one exclusively. I also have one more dual wielding combo with a spear but it's really useful and I've never seen anyone else crazy enough to try it so it's my secret for now. Actually, LordGodofHell knows it since I've used it against him but that was in a semi-random match. I've even used it to shut down overpowered griefers when my weapons were far less powerful than theirs, it's pretty killer. Throw in the Leo Ring, then it's a :affraid: -tier offense.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:42 am



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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:49 am

    Without the stat investment the Demon's spear hits about as hard as pissing at the opponent, not as scary as a 40 Dex SK Spear or DSS that we'd see prepatch. Forum's MLBH build is more troubling by a longshot, especially since it does great chip damage against shields. One can make a killer 40 Dex SKS build at SL 100 too, a Vit gouge with a weak spear isn't as bad.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Serious_Much on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:50 am

    great scythe... i just get lag hit by them, it's pretty ridiculous really.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:58 am

    You need to be aggressive against a GS user, don't give them the chance to use their range and dead angle power, get in their face with fast roll and a lot of stamina. Remember, the GS is a slow weapon that's not hard to dodge.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:09 am

    I'd argue that even a weak spear will have you scrambling. Spears generally aren't known for their damage output. Being able to steadily eat away at your hp while taking little to no damage themselves is what makes them dangerous. As far as chip damage through shields is concerned, I consider it a nonissue. 'Cause what are they doing to me while theyre blocking? Not sh*t. I've got the poise to take a hit, I've got solid stamina regen, and I've got plenty of hp. Initially I was going to go with the Cloranthy instead of the Leo so I could roll/poke all day. But I figured I was doing well enough in that department, so I went for the damage modifier instead. I also like Forum's build. I just built mine around the spear's very one-dimensional playstyle. It's real meat-and-potatoes, but then that's the idea.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:12 am

    Ghadis_God wrote:You need to be aggressive against a GS user, don't give them the chance to use their range and dead angle power, get in their face with fast roll and a lot of stamina. Remember, the GS is a slow weapon that's not hard to dodge.

    Right. Or just anticipate the CONSTANT dash attack spam.

    And parry it.

    About 1/3 of the fights I have against scythe players open with a parry/riposte.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:13 am

    I know, but a lot of people turtle up and try to block enemy spear users with their shield. Depending on the shield, half or more of the MLBH's damage will go through. I know that if I'm not parrying or rolling against a spear user, I'll have my shield up, which is what makes the MLBH so troubling.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:17 am

    Not many people dodge my GS silly but I not lame with it and only do running R1 after running R1 I mix it up....lately been liking the Halbert and pyro combo attacks tho its fun to use!!

    To OP I always use the RTSR I don't even really pay attention to my HP till it triggers...then its game time lol!

    As to my bane with duels its trying to fast roll against a good aggresive DWGR chaos blade user....they always catch a hit during the 2nd fast roll and chip away your HP!

    With regards to cheap tactics the only 1 I find cheap is TWOP and dead angled WOG spam....its just a pointless win!!!!


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:19 am

    At that point I can afford to wait for you to act instead of react. I get where you're coming from, and that's what makes Forum's build a solid idea. I'd just rather avoid chipping through a shield and wait for them to start attacking, 'cause that's what I want. Then they're playing MY game.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:21 am

    DarkW17 wrote: As to my bane with duels its trying to fast roll against a good aggresive DWGR chaos blade user....they always catch a hit during the 2nd fast roll and chip away your HP!

    Amen, holmes.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 am

    DamageCK wrote:
    DarkW17 wrote: As to my bane with duels its trying to fast roll against a good aggresive DWGR chaos blade user....they always catch a hit during the 2nd fast roll and chip away your HP!

    Amen, holmes.

    I know how you feel about that 1 damage...I swear it was built to the perfect size to punish fast roll xD

    I used to laugh an slaughter everyone at the burg with a DWGR 77 poise kirks/haavels and a crest grass with a CB...when that grew old and I started only fast rolling I realized how damn hard it is to fight against that build!!

    When the dlc hits tho damage guys like us that have been practicing without DWGR are going to be so much further ahead cheers


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DamageCK on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:00 am

    And guys who've been playing low poise, as well. I'm comfortable at the katana breakpoint, but anything lower still has me struggling sometimes. I guess when a lot of the other players are pushed to sacrifice poise to stay in the 100 bracket it'll be less punishing. The god damn CB though. I mean, it's not real hard to go on a decent streak with the CB against players who HAVE poise, but trying to out roll it doesn't end well the majority of the time. We'll see how it goes now that the rolls have all been buffed though.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by Ghadis_God on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:00 am

    I know, I stopped flipping a month ago and I've never been better at the game. Chaos blade is going to be even more powerful once everyone is fast rolling, though I've stopped using it. It gets tiring fighting against people with the exact same build as you, I've moved on to Straight Swords and it's like they were built to punish katanas, I'm winning way too often for a weapon class that's so underused.


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    Re: What is YOUR Bane?

    Post by DarkW17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:16 am

    Its funny you mention that Ghadis I have been using the Barbed straight a lot lately and doing pretty good...I don't think a lot of people realize its attacks are thrusts and with the leo ring and RTSR it can be :affraid:

    Give me about 10 mins and ill have part 2 of my duels with billy up on youtube....katana vs Bardbed straight sword both fast rolling!!


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