Parrying in PVP

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    callipygias
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    Parrying in PVP

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:06 pm

    I've been kind of surprised to realize that some people seem to think the parry timing is different in PVP because of lag. Is this the general consensus?

    Seems to me the timing is always the same -- always -- so it isn't lag, it's just the way From wanted it. Maybe they thought parrying other players should be more like real-life parrying, which I assume gives you the smallest fraction of a second to to make up your mind (or you 'guess' by learning your opponent). Maybe they just didn't want everyone waving their shield around like a bunch of dinks.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:26 pm

    there is lag, on most weapons you need to parry before you see him swing, unless its a slow long wind up weapon


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:31 pm

    I realize you have to pre-parry... or at least it seems like you do. What I'm saying is that it is not lag, it's the way From designed the parry in pvp.

    *edit* What do you mean by 'most weapons,' it seems to me they're all the same? The timing on the parrying dagger and target shield may be a little more generous, but you still have to parry before you see them swing.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:36 pm

    for example to parry a katana or a Falchon you parry before you see the enemy swing and hope you predict it.

    on slow wind up moves like the 1 handed Balder Side sword R2, you do the parry animation as soon as you see him lean backwards.

    for fast great sword parry set ups you parry as soon as they make contact wtih shield, for ultra great swords you wait till first swing is over with then parry


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:39 pm

    No, I think he knows that, and is trying to say that Fromsoft deliberately made it that way because it makes for better pvp.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:39 pm

    Okay, let's say you're 100% correct on all of those. My point is the same. The timing is constant. That isn't lag. Lag comes and goes and waxes and wains or whatever, parry timing does not.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:41 pm

    callipygias wrote:Okay, let's say you're 100% correct on all of those. My point is the same. The timing is constant. That isn't lag. Lag comes and goes and waxes and wains or whatever, parry timing does not.



    parry times are different on the PS3 and the PC, on PC you don't predict, i just assumed it was improved lag... maybe they are making parry timings different with DLC??

    because i dont see how being forced to blind parry weapons is better pvp


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:44 pm

    callipygias wrote:Okay, let's say you're 100% correct on all of those. My point is the same. The timing is constant. That isn't lag. Lag comes and goes and waxes and wains or whatever, parry timing does not.

    Lag is actually pretty consistent, at least it is on my game.

    If I see an American, I know he's typically not going to teleport. If I see a German or any other European, I have to be careful as they are going to lagshot me fairly frequently. (or at least, time my rolls when I predict that they'll attack because they can hit me with a side sword even if I'm half the stage away from them) If I meet an Australian... just attack everywhere in all directions.

    Lag is pretty consistent. But I agree that Fromsoft may have intended for the parry lag, or at least did nothing because they could see that it made for better PvP.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:24 pm

    @Glute, I'm not saying it's better, and I'm not saying Fromsoft necessarily thought it was 'better.' Maybe they just wanted it to be harder, I don't know. I don't understand the reasoning behind it, and of course I could just plain be wrong. BUT if you believe the strange parry timing in pvp is due to lag, then you must also believe that there is a 'normal' parry timing as well. Has anyone, ever, even once parried 'normally' in pvp? I'm betting not.

    OrnsteinBro wrote:If I see an American, I know he's typically not going to teleport. If I see a German or any other European, I have to be careful as they are going to lagshot me fairly frequently. (or at least, time my rolls when I predict that they'll attack because they can hit me with a side sword even if I'm half the stage away from them) If I meet an Australian... just attack everywhere in all directions.

    Lag is pretty consistent. But I agree that Fromsoft may have intended for the parry lag, or at least did nothing because they could see that it made for better PvP.
    This is a great point, you're actually able to recognize different lag times based on the region of your opponent, but I'm betting the parry timing is the same each one: You have to start your parry just before, or the exact instant you see you opponent swing, don't you?

    And if anyone has honestly noticed a difference in the parry timing on the PC I'd be interested, because it seems identical to me.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Glutebrah on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:46 pm

    Ornsteinbro said it makes better pvp, so that wasn't directed at you.

    But yea on PC parry times are alot closer to pve then PS3 is


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:49 pm

    I've fought players without Lag before, after messaging them it turned out he was in Chicago which isn't far from here. We both got really confused because we could not parry eachother, because we had to be exact on our timing. It was more like PvE.
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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:57 pm

    callipygias wrote:This is a great point, you're actually able to recognize different lag times based on the region of your opponent, but I'm betting the parry timing is the same each one: You have to start your parry just before, or the exact instant you see you opponent swing, don't you?

    I'm not sure what you're referring to exactly, so I'll just describe my parry experiences.

    I'm not very good at parrying, but I've noticed that while I can parry Americans, it's practically impossible to parry Europeans. I've attempted the setup parries, the prediction parries, the counter-bs strafing parries, and others but I can never get them. I don't think I've ever parried an European before, not sure if it's because they're all insanely good or if it's a latency issue.

    I did some tests with one of my British friends and he said I was parrying way too slow even though I tried parrying before he attacked and later tried setup parrying immediately after the first swing (he was using the claymore R1). I think that the worse lag the lag is, the further in advance you need to put your parry before the other guy's strike.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:07 pm

    Glutebrah wrote:But yea on PC parry times are alot closer to pve then PS3 is
    Not at all my experience (at least if you substitute PS3 with Xbox), so it may not be true as a blanket statement, but good to know it's the case for you.

    Tolvo wrote:I've fought players without Lag before, after messaging them it turned out he was in Chicago which isn't far from here. We both got really confused because we could not parry eachother, because we had to be exact on our timing. It was more like PvE.
    You're sure? The parry timing was like it is in PvE? If it's true then it blows my theory. Really strange though, because in my (admittedly limited) experience it's always the same, no matter how much lag there is or isn't, and I've never once seen a Youtube parry in anything close to 'normal' time. The law of averages is screaming at me. If enough people agree though, I've got to be wrong.


    Last edited by callipygias on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:08 pm

    It's one of the few instances without lag, and the timing was just completely different. It was almost like playing a different game when suddenly we could actually see where each other was. It was kind of nice.
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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:13 pm

    I've fought a Singaporean before and I still had to parry before he attacked. Strange since he should have been pretty close to me geographically.

    Maybe my internet is just crap, lol.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Tolvo on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 pm

    See, if I had a friend that actually played this game I could test it. Why does Dark Souls have to be so Niche. sad
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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Ghadis_God on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:48 pm

    We're the hipsters of videogames, Tolvo. CoD is way too mainstream for us lol.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by Rifter7 on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:42 pm

    because the asylum demon smashed them off the ledge while they were still busy s***ing themselves, tolvo.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by DamageCK on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:16 am

    I'm glad there's lag in PvP when it comes to parrying because if you could sight parry any attack (assuming it's an attack that can be parried) that's all a lot of people would do. I know when I'm in PvE I parry the majority of enemies that I can't one-shot, and if I could do it just as easily in PvP, well... that'd be ridiculous. I'd just parry everybody. All the time. It's not all that difficult to parry people WITH lag. God help you if we run into each other and I can sight parry your attacks. It'd be a short fight.


    Last edited by DamageCK on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by DarkW17 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:37 am

    1st off What dmg just said ^^

    I agree that they made it so you would have to parry before they swing...I don't think this is lag at all...otherwise what dmg just said would happen...and it also leaves you open for massive dmg when you miss...I think that's the real reason they made it so you would have to pre parry an attack!

    Now that being said lag affects the hell outta parrys for me when the person is across the Atlantic or a great distance away...whether it be EU or Japan or were ever....I drop a sweet prediction parry only to left there standing like a fool...I find with lag you gotta parry even earlier so the input data actually gets there before they swing! Bottom line if they are jerking around on your screen maybe shy away from a parry lol

    Were I find more wiggle room is with slow weapons...because they are more sight parriable...usually in this case ill actually take the hit...but then they will be brought into the parry animation...you can't tell me that has happened to you before?

    But I have never had a fight myself without lag were the parry window has changed Bow


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:59 am

    I managed to get a friend to test out parrying with me. Both computers were in the same room, and parrying was exactly as Tolvo described: very similar to PVE, where you have to time it right just before the other guy's attack hits.

    Playing at this level is ridiculously bad for your pvp skill level though, after two matches with such good connection I went back to the arena and instantly lost every single match I played in. You have to watch out for the lagstabs again, you get phantom hit again, you have to parry way in advance again. The fantastic connection really spoils you.

    For the sake of your pvp performance, do NOT under any circumstances play against someone living in close proximity to you.


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by SATLOS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:14 pm

    My buddy and I are hooking up our PS3's to the same router tonight for some dark souls dueling.

    I know it's not like a LAN, but it should be better than random connections. I'll give it some testing, based on weapons I know how to parry well in "normal" PvP.
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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by DarkW17 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:25 pm

    Sadly you may create as much or more lag than normal pvp if you do that....unless you guys have a blazing fast connection...running 2 PS's off 1 connection will really eat your bandwidth up!


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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by SATLOS on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:43 pm

    LOL, it's Telus... You may be right.

    I'll try setting his PS3 to a static IP and opening it up in my DMZ just to be sure.
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    Re: Parrying in PVP

    Post by DarkW17 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:37 pm

    Ahahahahahahaha your from Canada like me and stuck with stone aged internet....fun eh?????

    I have Telus also the difference is I am from Lethbridge and your from Vancouver....in Van or TO you'll have way faster internet than me in little old Leth...you may be okay then....post results I'm curious!


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