How does one punish aggression...

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    Spurgun
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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:04 pm

    If they are just running up to me then i lock off and attack them.
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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:14 pm

    I've gotten parried by doing that before. Also, when I use thrusting weapons like spears and rapiers it's ridiculously difficult trying to predict where they'll be (especially if they're European) since they'll just blip a few steps every so often, and I'll end up whiffing entirely.

    So I went back to counter BSing... and it just seems to piss people off.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Spurgun on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:16 pm

    That's why i try to always have a weapon with a sweep animation in off hand, if it isn't my main.

    Couldn't you just do the same thing though? Run straight at them, and if they try to BS you then you BS cancel.
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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:24 pm

    I'm running a low vit build (like, 14-16), so if I run at them I'm exhausting my own stamina and thus my own options. That's not to say I don't run at them, but that's generally only reserved for when I suspect that they're out of stamina (ie they make about six swings, I'll run in and kick them, guard break and get off a couple of shots).

    Also it's very difficult to counter BS/BS cancel someone while you're running at them, because by the time you see them change direction they've actually been doing it for a while. Most cases they'll get a hit in even if they don't get the BS. (which is anywhere between 30-60% of my hp in my situation) Also the BS cancel does absolutely nothing in my favour even if it succeeds since neither players take damage, it's basically a wasted action.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:33 pm

    without bs.. hmm...

    WoG works well, so does spells like combustion and HCSM. I find getting into trade offs with an aggressive player as a buff user is also ideal. That's just spells though.

    To me, the one is the fact aggressive layers will run out of stamina, they wont manage as well as cautious players. Just dodge or block until stamina is out and hit them while they're helpless.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:39 pm

    I don't use faith... I'm in the arena, not enough points to use it effectively.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:43 pm

    use force then


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Serious_Much on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:44 pm

    i also gave you more options than just using faith silly


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by SATLOS on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:24 pm

    OrnsteinBro wrote:...And you can't use a bow if they're running towards you because they're moving so fast that you won't get a hit off without taking one yourself.

    Well, you can always bait the running R1 by readying bow, then quickly swap out to shield and parry.

    This works WONDERS against katana users and STR weapon users (though its obviously a bit more risky against the latter group).
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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:01 pm

    Serious_Much wrote:i also gave you more options than just using faith silly

    I do dodge, I have to considering how little vit I have. But I can't dodge forever, and eventually I'll get lag hit (especially against Europeans). Plus it consumes way more stamina than they are expending.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:17 pm

    GC? you can hit for upwards of 700 so you'll win the trade. Fire surge will do it to, it puts people on the defensive in a hell of a hurry, and you can unlock and spin to fend off bs fishers (you look like an idiot but the number of people who let me kill them this way is astounding)


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by n0rain on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:17 pm

    As someone who is overly aggressive and circles to get the dead angle and not the backstab katana's kick my ***. If you constantly roll and only hit on my recovery time you will absolutely own me. I often get bsed likely because it looks like I am going for a bs, but in reality I am just really aggressive and have a lot of success with that side.

    a Unlocked swing often hurts us aggressors too. We overall leave more opening than other players so play defensively and only attack during our recovery.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by befowler on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:43 pm

    I'll either kick or unlock and just rotate in place with a bunch of balder side sword R1s as they try to circle. WOG/Force works of course, but I only do it if they aren't past my 10 / 2 o'clock yet. Another fun one is sprinting at them as they close and past them on the left side (their right side) with a BSS sweep attack; it'll dead angle and also counter a BS attempt if they pivot on you as you go by. You can do something similar with other straight swords/claymore but I find the BSS to have the best mix of swing speed and reach for it.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by n0rain on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:49 pm

    ^yeah I usually back off if the bss comes out. I roll r1 and sweep with my estoc to counter bss.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Knight Alundil on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:41 pm

    OrnsteinBro wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:Totally agree with purity. Hornet ring lagstab em all, who cares lol

    I don't use the hornet's ring.

    Yeh uhm.. doesn't make a difference I was just saying yes you should continue to backstab 'cause who cares otherwise. Do what you like. Didn't mean to like... judge you or anything lol

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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by cloudyeki on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:47 pm

    SATLOS wrote:
    OrnsteinBro wrote:...And you can't use a bow if they're running towards you because they're moving so fast that you won't get a hit off without taking one yourself.

    Well, you can always bait the running R1 by readying bow, then quickly swap out to shield and parry.

    This works WONDERS against katana users and STR weapon users (though its obviously a bit more risky against the latter group).

    More often then not if you start with a bow they'll roll strafe a lot or attempt a bum rush. If former just keep ready and predict when there rolls end due to no stamina or because they just rolled into a wall. If the latter stay ahead of them and fire as there running r1 starts. You'll either trade hits or stagger them with a headshot without any harm coming to you. Do it fast enough you can avoid the trade with a roll's I-frames.


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Seignar on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:27 pm

    If they are really close to you, kick them.
    If they are going for a quick BS (suddenly dashing), you can unlock and turn your back to them so that they'll simply appear in front of you. This one is a bit risky, so don't be predictable with it. This also works for roll BS (Only counter I devised to a hornet BSer).

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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:28 pm

    A lot of you guys are mentioning that I should trade hits, but I reiterate that in most situations I absolutely cannot. My vitality is too low to.

    I guess I'll free up weight for the BSS though to try it out, the last time I used it I kept getting parried.

    befowler wrote:... Another fun one is sprinting at them as they close and past them on the left side (their right side) with a BSS sweep attack; it'll dead angle and also counter a BS attempt if they pivot on you as you go by. You can do something similar with other straight swords/claymore but I find the BSS to have the best mix of swing speed and reach for it.

    BSS sweep attack? You mean the R1s?
    Forum Pirate wrote:GC? you can hit for upwards of 700 so you'll win the trade. Fire surge will do it to, it puts people on the defensive in a hell of a hurry, and you can unlock and spin to fend off bs fishers (you look like an idiot but the number of people who let me kill them this way is astounding)

    Yeah, GC doesn't stop them. I mentioned previously that I kicked a guy who wouldn't quit running for my shoulder, he came back, GCed him twice after, he STILL came back and then I counter-bsed him. After that he said I was a noob who could only win using cheap tactics.
    Also I met someone who complained about fire surge and said that it was the reason why he kept running for my shoulder. Look Skyward
    Sometimes I don't know if they were honestly as honorable as they say they are, or if they're only making all this noise because they failed their lagstab.

    Knight Alundil wrote:
    OrnsteinBro wrote:
    Knight Alundil wrote:Totally agree with purity. Hornet ring lagstab em all, who cares lol

    I don't use the hornet's ring.

    Yeh uhm.. doesn't make a difference I was just saying yes you should continue to backstab 'cause who cares otherwise. Do what you like. Didn't mean to like... judge you or anything lol

    Nah, it's okay man. Thanks for the input.

    By the way, is it considered BS fishing if you're backpedaling frantically as they run for your shoulder, and then counter BS when they won't quit?


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by Forum Pirate on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:37 pm

    No, thats called not being stupid. I'd just assume their buthurt because their bs attampt didn't work or because they're trying to take advantage of people seing bsing as cheap by not giving anyone any room and you bs them to make it stop, or just because they lost.

    I'd totally just bs them for their idiocy, no matter what they called me, but you asked for ways to punish undue aggression.

    I'm surprised gc didn't do it, who runs face first in to more than 1 of those?


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    Re: How does one punish aggression...

    Post by OrnsteinBro on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:46 pm

    Forum Pirate wrote:

    who runs face first in to more than 1 of those?
    I don't know, idiots? :\ Both of the GCs combined took off most of his hp I think, the counter-BS killed him. After that he just started strafing (presumably for BS's) and the match turned into a BSfest.


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