[SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

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    [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:54 am

    I love magic. You (may) love magic. But how does it work? We know Abyss Sorceries and Oolacile Sorceries are different from Vinhelm sorceries. Abyss sorceries use humans/ humanity. Lets take the description of the Pursuers:

    "Sorcery of Manus, Father of the Abyss. Grant a fleeting will to the Dark of humanity, and volley the result.
    The will feels envy, or perhaps love, and despite the inevitable trite and tragic ending, the will sees no alternative, and is driven madly towards its target.". The sorcery probably uses human souls as a volley to hit the enemy.

    Parts of this will be speculation, but onto Vinhelm Sorceries. I think their Soul Magic uses Dragon Souls. Three rings, along with the name of the school itself has Dragon in it. I'm especially interested in the Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring.

    "A special ring granted to only the most accomplished sorcerers at Vinheim Dragon School.
    The ring is engraved with an everlasting dragon, and boosts the strength of sorceries."

    Why would it be engraved with the Everlasting Dragon? Do they have some sort of sorcery potential? But that won't work, since Seath developed Sorcery. So thats why I think the school uses Dragon Souls.

    Finally, onto Oolacile sorceries. Dusk describes her sorceries as "gentle". I don't really have much else with it. Sorry.

    Your thoughts?
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Knight Alundil on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:25 pm

    Oolacile sorceries are, for lacker of a better way to describe it, puns.

    For example "Cast light". Light can be used to light the path ahead. So cutting down on the fat;

    "Cast guidance"

    I assume other oolacile spells are similar in nature happy

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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 pm

    One of Dusk's dialogue says her sorceries "Negates all but oneself". I have no idea what that means. Maybe it means literally that it doesnt affect anyone but yourself, yeah, thats what Im thinking.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Knight Alundil on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:05 pm

    ThatPerson wrote:One of Dusk's dialogue says her sorceries "Negates all but oneself". I have no idea what that means. Maybe it means literally that it doesnt affect anyone but yourself, yeah, thats what Im thinking.

    Yeh, that would make sense. Can't really put it into words but I totally know what you're getting at.

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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:10 am

    Shamelessly bumping my thread.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:20 am

    Personally I think all mages are abominations...... TEMPLARS FOR THE WIN!


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:22 am

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Personally I think all mages are abominations...... TEMPLARS FOR THE WIN!


    At least I dont have a crazy power ranger lead--oh, wrong game.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:38 am

    Maker Preserve us all!


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Chaos Spectre on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:57 pm

    Alright, this is going to possibly be a major spoiler. So, spoiler text.

    It has to deal with the three forms of sorcery, and oolacile.

    Spoiler:

    As you had said, Dark Sorcery uses the soul of humanity, or possibly the shattered remnants of the Dark Soul. Soul Sorcery most likely uses Dragon Souls, as the whole school based around its power originates around dragons. So where does that leave oolacile?

    Dusk Explains it all. Oolacile sorcery "Negates All but Ones Self". Your soul, yours alone, is the power source for Oolacile. Now, the theme behind the new content is that Oolacile brought the abyss upon itself. Per guessing that maybe Oolacile is the first of their kind to create sorcery based on the users soul, this power is strong, and possibly limitless. Oolacile sorcery is the exact opposite of Dark Sorcery, and as such, could fight the abyss. However, the abyss is everywhere, it knows all, and it will fight to keep its future dominance. Oolacile may not have known what power they created, and may not of even known what good it could be used for, and never will, because Manus removed them, and destroyed the greatest of the four knights.

    So to compare, using ones soul that is still whole, you could conjure magic. Using the souls of humans long past, you can conjure magic. Using the souls of ancients, you can conjure magic. I can only imagine the intense power the Lord Souls held.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by vatar5 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:13 pm

    Andraste's tits!

    Magic always seem evil because it either uses demon/dragon souls or attract demons!

    Anyway,magic is creation of men,not of Gods as only miracle and pyromancy were created by the Four Lords.

    So yeah,magic probably comes from the souls of slayed dragon although it's weird you don't get anything magic in the dragon covenant or from dragons in general so...dunno.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:18 am

    Another thing that has me all riled up is the Dark Spells. They were developed by an Oolacile sorcerer on the brink of madness, which obviously begs the question.. how in Lordran did who do it?


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by FellipeMariano on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:47 pm

    I think that magic itself, in Lordran was created by Seath, The Scaleless... Then Miracles was created by the Gods and Pyromancer was created by the witches of Izalith.

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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:20 pm

    FellipeMariano wrote:I think that magic itself, in Lordran was created by Seath, The Scaleless... Then Miracles was created by the Gods and Pyromancer was created by the witches of Izalith.


    Pyromancy was actually created by Quelana. The Witch of Izalith and her daughters originally used the fire arts which were lost when the Bed of Chaos was unleashed.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by samster628 on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:25 pm

    ViralEnsign_ wrote:Personally I think all mages are abominations...... TEMPLARS FOR THE WIN!
    *You hear 3 bolts fire in rapid succession and a shadowy figure leaves the room. Viral returns to the last bonfire rested at twisted *

    Also i agree with most of what has been said. the witches of I invented pyromancy from their lord soul, the miricles of the gods draw on the power of gwyns lord soul and soul sorcery comes from the power of dragon souls, oolicile from the users soul and dark sorcery from the dark soul. It makes sense. SORCERERS ARE THE BEST.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by FellipeMariano on Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:37 pm

    SORCERERS ARE THE BEST

    Disagree.

    If you take a close look at the Pyromances avaible, You will see that they're very advanced in many ways compared to sorceries and/or miracles. There is Pyromancers to boost attack, boost defense, boost fire resistance, corrode enemies equipment and gosh, there is even a mind-control pyromancer.

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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by samster628 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:41 am

    Its true sorceries lack the variety of pyromancys and i actually like both. I always thought it likly that there were to be some more healing sorceries from New Londo (if faith can get it why cant sorcerers) but it never made it in to the game. Speaking of which is it just me or does New Londo seem to be lacking some background lore in game? I know it had a robust culture, was known for its unique healing sorceries and That it had 3 great healers who became sealers after locking away the kings (who were corrupted by the abyss). The 3 healers are also all accounted for but not a lot is known about them in great depth. I know we console players don't even have the DLC yet but already i'm hoping for more DLC.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Shkar on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:16 am

    Can Sorcery really have come from the dragons / used their souls as a power source if the first sorceries were used when the dragons were still around?


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:33 am

    What do you mean by that?


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ViralEnsign_ on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:35 am

    Sorceries do not come from Dragons!


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:43 am

    But Seath invented sorcery, right? So technically, it did come from dragons. I think he invented it after the war with the dragons, though.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Shkar on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:23 am

    ThatPerson wrote:But Seath invented sorcery, right? So technically, it did come from dragons. I think he invented it after the war with the dragons, though.

    Modern Sorcery, maybe (which shows that he wasn't always insane and evil)., but the witches were using fire sorcery DURING the dragon war.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by vatar5 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:39 am

    Yeah,this is why I think magic were created by HUMANS!
    The origin is probably in Oolacile where they drew their inner soul to use magic and then human started to use different souls,external souls to draw power from.
    Hence the dragon crest,the soul magic probably came from the power of dead Dragon.


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by Serious_Much on Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:34 am

    read this, it should help give you some more info already researched on the idea of magic in dark souls

    http://soulswiki.forumsrpg.com/t3556-magical-theory-201


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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by SEANB240 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:53 pm

    I think there is an important distinction to make between the sorceries of the Dragon School and the ones you learn from Dusk, the original sorcery of Oolacile.

    I also think there is more to it with the Anor Londo illusions and the latter type mentioned above. I see a definite connection there.
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    Re: [SPOILERS] The Use of Souls in Sorcery

    Post by ThatPerson on Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:49 am

    I like how even after you killed Gwyndolin, the illusion of Gwynevere is still there.


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